Just started Fallout 4, What CP could have learned

[Kyron_Lee]

As it is right now, CP is in no way, form or shape a great game. The narrative of the side mission is pretty good, and the story (main plot?) is also kinda cool in my opinion, but the game itself! Has a long way to go, before i would even call it a good one. I have no problem, seeing this turn into the masterpiece they made it out to be. But there is a long road ahead for that to happen.

I dont doubt that you are enjoying it, i am to a certain degree too. But calling it great, well you should raise the bar a bit.

My initial tought when i started to play was "Holy shit, this is it", and then my 15min as a Nomad was over. Only to be greeted by a weak ass montage, completely ruining a perfect opurtunity to get to know the City alongside my new found friend Jackie(Inbefore this gets pushed as DLC).
Sure this game has some bugs and minor glitches that can be ignored, but there is something else quite profound off about it, and i honestly dont think it can or will be fixed. PLEASE CDPR prove me wrong, i dare you, i double dare you!

You had a misconception of what the character background would be and took the fantasy to far.. Man you will always be a nomad if you act like one the whole game.. Choomba I'm fresh off Borderlands 3, Mortal Kombat 11 and AC Odyssey.. Am a hardcore player - Cyberpunk is the best game out rn - for those who are innately attracted to this universe.

I play some preem polished games yo and I know CP is extraordinary because of the sum of its parts... And because I haven't left since day one.

 

[Warthog91]

You had a misconception of what the character background would be and took the fantasy to far.. Man you will always be a nomad if you act like one the whole game.. Choomba I'm fresh off Borderlands 3, Mortal Kombat 11 and AC Odyssey.. Am a hardcore player - Cyberpunk is the best game out rn - for those who are innately attracted to this universe.

I play some preem polished games yo and I know CP is extraordinary because of the sum of its parts... And because I haven't left since day one.

Sorry, i think you misunderstood. What i meant was lifepath had ZERO impact on the story. As you are treated like a Streetkid anyhow. Every now and then i get a dialogue option sure, but it usualy does nothing for me in any way.

Also, AC: Odyssey and Hardcore in the same sentence, creds to you.

 

[Metropolice]

Can't take OP seriously when Fallout 4 offers this type of "quality" writing for the entire game.

View attachment 11133032

CP is nowhere near perfect, but is miles, miles ahead of Bethesda's any game.

I don't recall all dialogue, but it feels a bit like cherry picking because I vividly recall a post on either this forum or reddit including a screenshot. But I couldn't find it with ease, so I use another I found as example, bug / photoshop or not:

I think both games have the issue occasionally to be fair.

In the end, I still feel like I had more "freedoms" as player in for example FO4 than I might have in CP77. I realize you cannot fully or narrowly compare it all to the last bit - it's just that I feel more free as player in FO4 in some areas - regardless of what limited or similar options I get to see in some cases.

Perhaps to express it in simpler words, I can be more who I want to be or feel as such, whereas I'm always on an artificial time clock in CP2077 and barred from any factions and groups for either this or other reasons. With all the mods and a bit of personal immersion included, FO4 is pretty fun. It's at the very least a game I so far kept coming back to several times throughout the years.

 

[Kyron_Lee]

Sorry, i think you misunderstood. What i meant was lifepath had ZERO impact on the story. As you are treated like a Streetkid anyhow. Every now and then i get a dialogue option sure, but it usualy does nothing for me in any way.

Also, AC: Odyssey and Hardcore in the same sentence, creds to you.

I was treated as and took critical choices as a corpo for 130hrs.. My V is not a streetkid, never was, is adamantly smarter than that, her approach is business, Corpo is smarter than the other 2. Imo its very aesthetic

 

[ArvGuy]

Can't take OP seriously when Fallout 4 offers this type of "quality" writing for the entire game.

View attachment 11133032

CP is nowhere near perfect, but is miles, miles ahead of Bethesda's any game.

FO4 dialogue was rubbish, but you've actually got four options here. How many times in this game did you get that many dialogue options? Usually, if there is more than one option, there will be one or two irrelevant blue flavour lines and then one golden "let's move on" line that actually does something.

 

[Ashii]

FO4 dialogue was rubbish, but you've actually got four options here. How many times in this game did you get that many dialogue options? Usually, if there is more than one option, there will be one or two irrelevant blue flavour lines and then one golden "let's move on" line that actually does something.

Yes.
No.
Sarcastic yes.
Some random dialogue.

These were the options during the game. The ones in my screenshot were saying literally the same thing. I played the whole game with a mod that allowed me to see the whole dialogue option, not just the short version of it and everything was practically the same all the time. And even so, personally I prefer to have two dialogue options with better quality writing than what Fallout 4 offered. But to each their own.

 

[Icinix]

(snip)

I'm using your post about the dialogue choice as a bit of platform, so this isn't really directed at you - but more the general nature of choice in dialogue and consequences.

I genuinely feel that the issue is not one of choice and consequence - but rather its presentation and player awareness.

In The Witcher 3, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Fallout (exception the above posted dialogue choices) etc - the choices are very clearly delineated. Many are binary. You know you're making a choice. All others are character flavour.

In Cyberpunk they're much more organic, and you don't even really know how many things change, especially in the staggering amount of dialogue choices, until you've gone through a few different times, doing things at different stages, and in different ways and by choosing dialogue options that on the surface don't do anything.

A single simple example. There is a clothing vendor with a heavy stereotypical over the top (outright insulting) Japanese accent. You have two optional dialogue choices - one is ask them how they're finding Night City, the other is to call them out that that's not how the Japanese speak. How that merchant speaks for the rest of the game is altered by how (if) you go into those optional dialogue choices.

The game is loaded with small scale stuff like that, and larger stuff in the side quests and some of the gigs. Many of the "I completed this game 100% in 80 hours or less" checklist completion posts - are missing just how varied your player engagement becomes with the world if you behave differently between play throughs.

 

[ArvGuy]

You had a misconception of what the character background would be and took the fantasy to far.. Man you will always be a nomad if you act like one the whole game.. Choomba I'm fresh off Borderlands 3, Mortal Kombat 11 and AC Odyssey.. Am a hardcore player - Cyberpunk is the best game out rn - for those who are innately attracted to this universe.

I play some preem polished games yo and I know CP is extraordinary because of the sum of its parts... And because I haven't left since day one.

You realise that BL3, MK11 and Ass Creed Odyssey ain't got anything to do with role-playing games, right? By giving us that bit of context regarding your gaming preferences, you are effectively affirming the thing a lot of us are complaining about, that the game is a linear looter-shooter rather than the groundbreaking RPG that CDPR talked about for years.

And yes, it's a perfectly decent casual action game. Not very complex, some story here and there, not very difficult, and shooting people sure is fun. Also looks pretty nice. But that's all it is, and once you level up a bit then the combat becomes excessively trivial, because you will have outleveled just about anything in Night City.

 

[Simpson3000]

It´s true, in CP you have to agressivly ignoring Jackie if you want to delay the main quest, if you want to explore Watson before everything goes to hell literally. In Fallout 4 its easier to become distracted.

 

[ArvGuy]

Yes.
No.
Sarcastic yes.
Some random dialogue.

These were the options during the game. The ones in my screenshot were saying literally the same thing. I played the whole game with a mod that allowed me to see the whole dialogue option, not just the short version of it and everything was practically the same all the time. And even so, personally I prefer to have two dialogue options with better quality writing than what Fallout 4 offered. But to each their own.

Not literally the same thing, no. But just about. Rather depressing, sure, I agree. I hated that dialogue too. Now tell me where the dialogue in this game is any better? Almost every time, you really only have one dialogue option. Some times you have two options that do the exact same thing.

As for "better quality writing", where exactly do you find that writing? Is it the Monty Python level comedy show that is the Heist or how a person with V's background is somehow naive enough to become fodder in a mission like that, working with a dodgy fixer they don't know?

 

[Ashii]

Not literally the same thing, no. But just about. Rather depressing, sure, I agree. I hated that dialogue too. Now tell me where the dialogue in this game is any better? Almost every time, you really only have one dialogue option. Some times you have two options that do the exact same thing.

As for "better quality writing", where exactly do you find that writing? Is it the Monty Python level comedy show that is the Heist or how a person with V's background is somehow naive enough to become fodder in a mission like that, working with a dodgy fixer they don't know?

If you really think that Fallout 4 had better writing then I doubt anything I say can convince you. Like I said, to each their own. The only good Fallout game that had good writing was New Vegas and that's because it wasn't made by Bethesda, but Obsidian.

 

[Kyron_Lee]

You realise that BL3, MK11 and Ass Creed Odyssey ain't got anything to do with role-playing games, right? By giving us that bit of context regarding your gaming preferences, you are effectively affirming the thing a lot of us are complaining about, that the game is a linear looter-shooter rather than the groundbreaking RPG that CDPR talked about for years.

And yes, it's a perfectly decent casual action game. Not very complex, some story here and there, not very difficult, and shooting people sure is fun. Also looks pretty nice. But that's all it is, and once you level up a bit then the combat becomes excessively trivial, because you will have outleveled just about anything in Night City.

You realise I own 208 games across a few platforms and spanning 25 years right?

 

[ArvGuy]

I was treated as and took critical choices as a corpo for 130hrs.. My V is not a streetkid, never was, is adamantly smarter than that, her approach is business, Corpo is smarter than the other 2. Imo its very aesthetic

So your much smarter corpo V didn't get roped into being fodder in a suicide mission to raid Arasaka in the most pathetically planned grand heist Night City has seen in decades, like some complete rube? That sounds cool. Please tell me more.

Oh, so you did do that but at least your V was smart enough afterwards to not trust Dex enough to get sucker-punched by him, right? No?

But then after that whole thing was over, at least your corpo V was smart enough to realise just how many murders the other rival tech companies would commit to get their hands on secret Arasaka god-tier immortality technology, and therefore brokered a deal where V got some help with the nanites and that other corporation got to keep the chip, right?

Answer is of course no. Your corpo V is not smarter than a streetkid or a nomad. Your V is the same as every other V. The same stupid dialogue, the same stupid acidic sarcasm, the same pathetic smartassery to compensate for incompetence. The same boneheaded "need exposition from other characters to figure anything out" mentality too.

If you can roleplay through that then I salute you, but I am seriously struggling with my male netrunner V, because good grief does he not sound like a 20 int guy. Rather, he sounds like the 3 int V except he's fallen off his bike a few times too many.

 

[Kyron_Lee]

So your much smarter corpo V didn't get roped into being fodder in a suicide mission to raid Arasaka in the most pathetically planned grand heist Night City has seen in decades, like some complete rube? That sounds cool. Please tell me more.

Oh, so you did do that but at least your V was smart enough afterwards to not trust Dex enough to get sucker-punched by him, right? No?

But then after that whole thing was over, at least your corpo V was smart enough to realise just how many murders the other rival tech companies would commit to get their hands on secret Arasaka god-tier immortality technology, and therefore brokered a deal where V got some help with the nanites and that other corporation got to keep the chip, right?

Answer is of course no. Your corpo V is not smarter than a streetkid or a nomad. Your V is the same as every other V. The same stupid dialogue, the same stupid acidic sarcasm, the same pathetic smartassery to compensate for incompetence. The same boneheaded "need exposition from other characters to figure anything out" mentality too.

If you can roleplay through that then I salute you, but I am seriously struggling with my male netrunner V, because good grief does he not sound like a 20 int guy. Rather, he sounds like the 3 int V except he's fallen off his bike a few times too many.

Haha you're classic choomba, listen.. Read, whatever - I've been around long enough to not engage with forum users such as yourself. You have sour disposition towards the game yet write massive posts on the forum.

Best wishes for the future yo! Good luck!

 

[ArvGuy]

If you really think that Fallout 4 had better writing then I doubt anything I say can convince you. Like I said, to each their own. The only good Fallout game that had good writing was New Vegas and that's because it wasn't made by Bethesda, but Obsidian.

Not what I'm saying at all. Rather, this game has a story that is largely as bad as the story in Fallout 4 and the dialogue in both games is awful. I wouldn't want to say exactly which game is worse, because that's mostly a question of evaluating very fine nuances in how farts stink.

I will say that the story in Cyberpunk could have been so much more, though. It has some promise and a lot of very interesting concepts where the story in FO4 is more of an invitation to go nuts with the biggest hammer you can find, or a flamethrower if you can't find any.

But I refuse to assess CP77 based on what it could have been. All we have is what it is.

Post automatically merged: Jan 8, 2021

Haha you're classic choomba, listen.. Read, whatever - I've been around long enough to not engage with forum users such as yourself. You have sour disposition towards the game yet write massive posts on the forum.

Best wishes for the future yo! Good luck!

Brilliant idea to go on a forum and then not want to actually discuss anything. But if that's your thing then I hope you enjoy it.

 

[VelWu]

Fallout 4 is a pretty replayable and enjoyable game, I've been playing it alongside Skyrim after doing like, 12 playthroughs. In fact, I was just playing it before reading this thread over dinner. It's just not the 10/10 RPG it hyped itself up to be.

This is the same problem with Cyberpunk 2077. The way they phrased those ads made me think it's going to be CDPR's New Vegas whose gunplay/combat system will be at least as fun as Fallout 4

Turns out, CP2077 gets it the other way around. As a RPG, it is even worse than Fallout 4, and its clunky combat is just about New Vegas.

 

[Mobster100]

Can't take OP seriously when Fallout 4 offers this type of "quality" writing for the entire game.

View attachment 11133032

CP is nowhere near perfect, but is miles, miles ahead of Bethesda's any game.

I never said that Fallout 4 dialog system was good, CP is slightly better, but mostly because of the delivering of the voice actors.

And the text might be written so it seems like there is a huge difference between each of the yellow options, but as we know now this is mostly an illusion.

CPs dialog pretty follow the same recipe you have written for FO4, meaning no matter what you choose it pretty much end up in the same anyway, besides a couple of quests.

Dialogs for most of these RPGs are pretty linear despite them always saying that choice matters. And since these companies apparently can't do it and weave it all into one huge main quest, I personally think it would be better to maybe leave out the main quest and focus on a lot of shorter ones, but which will affect your overall game experience in a much more severe way, so each playthrough will be different. And I think FO4 does a lot better in that regard than CP does, because it is so focused around Silverhand and therefore its pretty limited how you as a player want to approach this Universe.

And for me once I had completed it, I really didn't see a lot of reason for going back and doing gigs, I could already instant kill almost everything so it was starting to be slightly boring. So had CP been a very interactive world, with a "settlement" system as in FO4, obviously whatever would make sense in CP, I would have been able to have enjoy that.

Because for people that think its fun to build these, especially with some of the mods, it makes sense and it's becomes a natural part or extension to gameplay loop that you also have to gather resources.

And a mod like Horizon really make you struggle I think, it's not uncommon that you are running around with 50-70% radiation damage and hardly any ammo etc. It just adds to the experience in my opinion and CP would benefit from this as well, because of how awesome Night city is, if they actually added some faction systems etc.

 

[Rddc]

I have ~1800 hours in Boston and ~900 in Skyrim..

I will never go back now that Cyberpunk swept me away. Talking to Misty made me yell to the household "Bethesda shouldn't even have a job now" due to the flawless interaction, facials and gestures that I saw while having tarot read.


Bethesda can learn from CDPR

My Tarot reading was less enthralling due to the Tarot Cards being invisible.

 

[Kyron_Lee]

My Tarot reading was less enthralling due to the Tarot Cards being invisible.

Well what do you wante to say to a deliberate slander in reply to a positive experience. Get out of here man. Go be spiteful in vain elsewhere.

This repling with no constructive progression just makes people look like dicks

 

[Guest 4071710]

What part of the story in CP77 did you find "good"? Yes, there is some risk that I might be tempted to nitpick your answer a little bit. Because personally, I expected a good story but what we got was... Unimpressive, I guess. Unambitious. Too many cliches, too much railroading where other options are barred for inexplicable reasons.

Characters and plot are way more interesting than "single parent Nate & Nora, ex solider or lawyer that tries to find their son in a retro futuristic post apocalyptic world while constantly nagged by vagrants to do their bidding". Unless you have kids and a family of your own its hard to relate to that and roleplay in your head.
Then you have Cyberpunk in which "you are V, a guy or a gal or both or whatever you wish to be in that regard. Your goal is to make it big in Night City while you are fighting against time to figure out how to save your ass after a heist gone wrong."

As for characters dont tell me you find Preston Garvey or Paladin Danse more interesting than River or Kerry Eurodyne?