Just wanna lay one thing to rest with the whole E3 2018 demo

[exxxed]

This topic seems to be the basis of every ''cut-feature'' argument that surrounds the game so I'll just post this article here so people remember the whole ordeal with the so called gameplay demo.

Why the Cyberpunk 2077 developers were hesitant to show gameplay

“This is probably not the same game you’ll see on your screen when we launch”

www.polygon.com

TLDR.

CDPR didn't want to release that gameplay featurette to the general public fearing this exact scenario that's happening now, but, because they seem to like pleasing their audience (sometimes to their own detriment) they caved in and now they're paying for it.

I guess, for better or for worse, they won't be as open with things as they were before. Which in my opinion is a real shame as I love to see how the games are made behind the scene hence why I follow Star Citizen.

But anywho, take it as you will.

 

[cannabination]

It isn't just E3 thing, though. They've been talking about the ways this game was going to be deeper and more immersive than any before for a long time. If we really want to cut through the bs, the things that people are crying out for have been industry standard for a decade or two. NPC AI, customizable cars, additional apartments, a mini map that zooms when you drive... these things aren't pie in the sky. Aside from the cars I think GTA vice city had them all.

 

[denmo90]

This topic seems to be the basis of every ''cut-feature'' argument that surrounds the game so I'll just post this article here so people remember the whole ordeal with the so called gameplay demo.

Why the Cyberpunk 2077 developers were hesitant to show gameplay

“This is probably not the same game you’ll see on your screen when we launch”

www.polygon.com

TLDR.

CDPR didn't want to release that gameplay featurette to the general public fearing this exact scenario that's happening now, but, because they seem to like pleasing their audience (sometimes to their own detriment) they caved in and now they're paying for it.

I guess, for better or for worse, they won't be as open with things as they were before. Which in my opinion is a real shame as I love to see how the games are made behind the scene hence why I follow Star Citizen.

But anywho, take it as you will.

For some it maybe is true that they only reefer to such, but c'mon the NPC AI is sadly shit in CP2077, even games from 2014 have a better IA and as cannabination already said, it is simply that they praised it to be one of the best new gen games ever.

They also said they would never release a half-baked shit, but just almost 10 days ago we got a statement where they released a version that "while it is not perfect improved daily", cmon this game costs 60bucks for such a statement?

They had the most hype ever, if they would have simply delayed the game and made it in the way like GTA has done, this game would be a huge break-out and even 10 years from now guys would still play it.

Now some play it for the bugs or the memes or simply they still have their hopes up that CPDR does not fuck it up and releases some decent patches in the up-coming month.

What ever has been cut from the orginal even tho there is a game designer that quit and talks about it over twitter, he is simply the proof that it was cut. The one guy that I am talking about is Jason Schreier.

This game is simply not good, it has it ups but there are 1000 times more downs than ups.

 

[exxxed]

Since both of your posts talk about a similar subject I'm just gonna generally reply to both of you.

I agree, the base game has issues no doubt about it. Some things can be improved, some things are wishful thinking, but I'm purely addressing the E3 2018 demo and what surrounded it's release to the public eye.

I'd love a link to that former game designer on twitter, I don't think Jason Schreier has an unbiased view of the situation so I take what he spews with a grain of salt.

No doubt the game should have been delayed like a lot of games before it, it's like this industry never learns, or there are things involving a videogame release (like publisher deals, console manufacturer deals, backroom deals, investor pressure, management issues etc.) that we may never find out about unless the party in question comes out and specifically lay them bare.

I don't know what else to say, I've got my money's worth out of the game, I've expected The Witcher 3 in a Cyberpunk setting and that's pretty much what I got (shitty AI and unresponsive, noninteractive world included ).

As for marketing jargon (best thing ever, most polished ever, it will have no bugs, best this, that, and the other) I mean come on, this isn't the first thing to be advertised as such and I wish CDPR would have been different here but then again I don't tend to get my hopes up based on hollow promises anymore.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Myajha]

Here's the problem with your argument. They showed some of those same very features in the Night Wires as well.

Games change, especially in two years, I accept that. But when you keep hyping the same features in Night City Wires that you hyped in 2018, up to launch, only to find out that they were so watered down or non-existant. Take the Police and gang AI for example. They hyped that since 2018, through "dynamic city" night city wires up to launch.

That's the problem. If they were up front about what changed, people would be complaining less now. But when you hype up the features in future marketing, you'd better deliver.

 

[feckyer1ife]

Crowbcat nails everything wrong with the game which is everything lol

edit: also what happened to that old man NPC (detective?) That V was talking to in one of the last trailers.

 

[tRYSIS3]

You'd have a point if the lies had stopped there, but they go way beyond that point, to this day in fact

 

[tavellone]

I think the main issue is not that there are differences between the 2018 demo and the current game, it is that the current game is so fundamentally different in terms of content and how the game plays and it isn't just due to gameplay or mechanics being tweaked or changed its that a lot of it is just plain removed and the state of the game clearly shows that they weren't removed for reasons of creative or design changes because a lot of the stuff seems to have a placeholder replacement or the remnants of a half finished mechanic. You can say that it's a two year old demo and everything is subject to change as justification if you want and I'm sure legally you can fenagle your way out of some sort of court case with that, but it's just bad form and frankly dishonest to try and disprove your game's criticism this way.

 

[hulkman2456]

Crowbcat nails everything wrong with the game which is everything lol

edit: also what happened to that old man NPC (detective?) That V was talking to in one of the last trailers.

A lot of the CG trailers are all fake and don't exsist in the game. That is also apart of the deceptive tatics they pulled.

 

[cannabination]

As for marketing jargon (best thing ever, most polished ever, it will have no bugs, best this, that, and the other) I mean come on, this isn't the first thing to be advertised as such and I wish CDPR would have been different here but then again I don't tend to get my hopes up based on hollow promises anymore.

Thanks for the comments.

This is why people get all hot and bothered. No one expected a game with no bugs. I don't think it unreasonable to expect a mini map that zooms with acceleration after a month, though.

This game is wildly, obviously, unfinished. I agree that I've gotten my $60 out of the game, but I'll definitely not be pre-ordering any more games from CDPR as things currently stand and I doubt if I'm alone in that. I think they'll actually put a lot of the cut content back into the game over time, hopefully including a reasonable police AI. If they do I'll buy DLC. I was never expecting perfection out of the gates, just as close as they could get over time. The lack of unbiased reflection and communication is why people are so irritated.

My confusion is over the "This game is great" bravado when we can all very clearly see the emperor has no clothes.

 

[exxxed]

Here's the problem with your argument. They showed some of those same very features in the Night Wires as well.

Games change, especially in two years, I accept that. But when you keep hyping the same features in Night City Wires that you hyped in 2018, up to launch, only to find out that they were so watered down or non-existant. Take the Police and gang AI for example. They hyped that since 2018, through "dynamic city" night city wires up to launch.

That's the problem. If they were up front about what changed, people would be complaining less now. But when you hype up the features in future marketing, you'd better deliver.

I think it's purely a matter of perspective and down to the individual. As far as everything presented in the NCW episodes is present in the game, even the Dynamic City (the density of traffic and NPCs changes based on weather and time of day).

As for gangs, they seem somewhat dynamic to me, I've started a new playthrough as a Streetkid (dunno if it had an impact or not since my Corpo was always aggroed by all the gangs) but at first I could walk right up to the random Tyger Claws and they wouldn't aggro me at all until I engaged in a sidequest (I think it was Jotaro) but now if I don't act fast they always jump me on the street.

It's simplistic no argument there, but it exists (don't mistake this for me defending the system, I want more from it just like everyone else but it's not a lie).

I agree they should have been crystal clear from the beginning.

@feckyer1ife

Honestly if we start taking CGI trailers as broken promises I don't know what to say.

As for crowbcat's video he pretty much made a video of the same bug compilations floating around youtube (some of them from the unpatched pre-release version because I was following some of the leaked streams prior to release and it's the same exact video, don't take my word for it as the streams were shortly taken down) and statements taken out of context to give flavor to the outrage.

Unproductive if you ask me but it drives the clicks so props to him, it must have taken a bit of doing to make.

Post automatically merged: Jan 21, 2021

My confusion is over the "This game is great" bravado when we can all very clearly see the emperor has no clothes.

But it's all subjective isn't it? I think the game's brilliant, my favorite type of Eurojank, up there with The Witcher and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for me, heck it's the unofficial sequel to Deus Ex I've always wanted.

Does that make me wrong?

Is it wrong to have a balanced view of things?

They omitted things, important things, before launch no doubt, but does that ruin the entire experience?

I wouldn't say so.

 

[Myajha]

It's simplistic no argument there, but it exists (don't mistake this for me defending the system, I want more from it just like everyone else but it's not a lie).

I agree it's not a lie. I posted a similar quote in a thread about Goro, but deception doesn't always mean lying. It means sometimes telling the truth, just not the whole truth, and allowing people to make their own decisions based on incomplete data.

So in this case you publish something in 2018, with the watermark "gameplay may change". Then you go ahead and feature the same systems in future marketing, with the same watermark. Then when game releases, and the systems are technically there, just at the basic elementary, watered down level, you can say "Well we said they'd be in the game, and they are, you just assumed they'd be immersive and dynamic, and oh if they changed, it's because games change".

We heard as much from Adam Badowski's release, where he took no blame or no ownership on any of the huge complaints that the game players have, instead deflected and hid behind "gameplay may change" and "you assumed" lines.

 

[Gillian_Seed]

I guess, for better or for worse, they won't be as open with things as they were before.

CDPR Apologizes For Hiding Cyberpunk 2077’s Horrible Last-Gen Performance

CDPR has apologized both for not focusing enough on PS4 and Xbox One for Cyberpunk 2077's release, and for effectively hiding its performance there.

www.forbes.com

But anywho, take it as you will.

Very well.

 

[Myajha]

My confusion is over the "This game is great" bravado when we can all very clearly see the emperor has no clothes.

It's odd you say that. I just watched an IGN video that showed just how four people can disagree on this game.

.. this one https://www.ign.com/videos/cyberpunk-2077-reviews-one-month-later-the-review-crew

So I agree with the woman from Gamespot on the show. But whoever was on the lower right panel of the video, is a raging fan of the game, and tried to justify everything that may have been bad as "subjectively good".

So it's all subjective, and how you look at the game I suppose. I see the game as a 6 or a light 7. But as a foundation for something greater, it's a 8 or a 9. Especially with the modding community going at it.

I have very little faith in CDPR right now, but think Cyberpunk 2077 can turn into a great next Fallout 4 game, where the game and everything Bethesda did with it was mediocre, but what the modders have done with it makes it a game I play to this day.

 

[hulkman2456]

Honestly if we start taking CGI trailers as broken promises I don't know what to say.

Many are lies. About cars, about how you look. That guy V talks to. He doesn't exist. The cars mean jack. Your look means jack. Remember when V attacks Dex and T-Bug defends him. By hacking our Mantis blades. That never happens. Almost like it's a scenario was made up for the trailer. Instead of doing a cinematic version of an actual in game, none spoiler moment. When I see trailers like these examples. I expect them to be in the game. I don't expect them to be 100% identical. But I expect this moment to happen. Weather it's behind a choice I have to make, or normal story progression.

Imagine I filmed a scene in a trailer. Where the main character gets shot. You go watch the movie and this never happens. Would you care or not this happened.

 

[exxxed]

View attachment 11150462

CDPR Apologizes For Hiding Cyberpunk 2077’s Horrible Last-Gen Performance

CDPR has apologized both for not focusing enough on PS4 and Xbox One for Cyberpunk 2077's release, and for effectively hiding its performance there.

www.forbes.com

Very well.
View attachment 11150465

Oh Jackie boy, Jackie boy, show me the door.

I stand corrected, but I meant about game development not marketing tactics .

 

[gregski]

A lot of the CG trailers are all fake and don't exsist in the game. That is also apart of the deceptive tatics they pulled.

Everyone in the industry is using CGI trailers with assets not existing in the game. By that logic, every commercial you see in the world is a "deception tactic".

If you played the game, you must have played "The Heist" quest. It's final part is a CGI trailer recreated almost entirely in the actual game. So you could say CDPR went further than many game developers.

 

[hulkman2456]

Everyone in the industry is using CGI trailers with assets not existing in the game. By that logic, every commercial you see in the world is a "deception tactic".

If you played the game, you must have played "The Heist" quest. It's final part is actually a CGI trailer recreated almost entirely in the actual game.

And your point? They are deceptive tactics and those companies lose my trust, and cases sales, each time they do it. Stop changing the subject to the Heist CG trailer. Where is the Dex is defended by T-Bug moment. This is a lie.

 

[cannabination]

Does that make me wrong?

Is it wrong to have a balanced view of things?

They omitted things, important things, before launch no doubt, but does that ruin the entire experience?

I wouldn't say so.

You essentially just said the by being disappointed in the lack of advertised features and lack of communication acknowledging them, we have an unbalanced look at things.

I saw a reference earlier about putting a down payment on a LE corvette and getting a minivan. It isn't even that, though. It's paying full price for a complete car and getting something with rickety brakes, no suspension, a huge engine that was never tuned, uncomfortable seats, no cup holders, and a really nice looking exterior from a salesman whose only response to complaint is "But have you seen the exterior?"

My point is that the game has a lot of room to improve in ways CDPR promised us, and their post release comments lead me to believe they may not be interested in realizing that potential.

 

[exxxed]

-snip-

I think it takes a bit of maturity from all parties.

What I see in this whole fiasco is the process through which the industry goes past the edgy teen years into early adulthood.

Gamers need to be more critical of the marketing material without hyping everything to the nether-realm and back and the publishers/developers need to be more succinct with the marketing (it will never happen and I'm a fool ), I hope CDPR takes that route because it keeps biting them in the ass at every turn since The Witcher 1.