dont even know where to begin
at first i hated his guts and at the end i missed that damn bastard
dont even know where to begin
at first i hated his guts and at the end i missed that damn bastard
Principally, I'm fine with Keanu and/or Johnny Silverhand. While nothing groundbreaking new as a story, that whole "get rid of that thing in my head" storyline intrigued me and I enjoyed my first playthrough.
Other than that, they would've needed more development time to truly flesh things out. From what I've heard (and read), Keanu being some sort of secondary protagonist popped up, when the game was already in development for quite some time.
Surely, a large number of fans would've been upset about further delaying the game but in my mindset, that would've been the right decision in the long run.
Other than that, they would've needed more development time to truly flesh things out. From what I've heard (and read), Keanu being some sort of secondary protagonist popped up, when the game was already in development for quite some time.
Surely, a large number of fans would've been upset about further delaying the game but in my mindset, that would've been the right decision in the long run.
No advertising is bad and Keanu's bike company made bank on this game in free advertising.
This is such a disingenuous statement. How is V and Johnny's relationship not adding to the game? Would a mute biochip be better? Johnny fleshes out the story so much, he adds so much weight to all the Samurai related content in the game, to the Kerry storyline, to the changes V is going through, V and Johnny can become genuine friends, even the GIGs get love where V and Johnny can have different philosophical dialogues.
How can you say all the best parts are when Johnny is not around? To say that you mean to say the main story itself wasn't great, that you didn't care about Rogue, about Alt, about Johnny trying to convince you not to go with Alt.
The story is good, how are people hating on the story? I understand hating every other thing about the game, but the story? I'm beyond baffled!
Take a breath, read my post again, read immediate replies and my next post underneath it.
I'm breathing fine, just really disappointed by the massive amounts of hate this game gets bombarded with.
I also read the comments, which are straight up unfair as Johnny isn't the main character by a long shot. He's a voice in V's head, that most people in most quests aren't even aware of. He even tries to convince V not to go with Alt if the player chooses to do that. Not to mention we basically wrap up all loose ends Johnny had in a very tasteful way. He gets to reconcile with Rogue, he gets to meet and have one last concert with his old bandmates. He's pretty much set to go with Alt.
But people are nitpicking so hard, that apparently now he's the main character and the game sucks because of that too. It just never stops, every day something new.
You wouldn't have read the dozens of other posts in other threads I've written about this, so that's fine - but I consistently talk about how my first ending was thematically great for my play style and wonderfully bitter sweet.
However, as I said in this thread, it is not the strongest part of the game. It takes more away from the role playing than it provides. There was another thread a little while ago where someone made some great connections on how this is a re-telling of "For Whom The Bell Tolls" - which they certainly seemed to hit the nail on the head - but how much of a place does that have in an open world free game that was supposed to be about your story and your choices and relationships and consequences.
You yourself just wrote how "he gets to reconcile with rogue" "we basically get to wrap up all loose ends Johnny had" - we are the second fiddle through the main quest for what is being referred to on these forums as "The Ballad of Johnny Silverhand" which it feels like. I care about V and V's relationships (My character) - No an existing character who I don't have any knowledge about from the Cyberpunk lore.
It is powerful in moments, there are some great exchanges etc...
...but the best part of this game is Vs relationships with Misty, Vic, Judy, Panam, Saul, River, Mitch, and on and on..You could cut the main quest and johnny out - and all of those relationships and stories wouldn't be weaker.
I love Cyberpunk, I really do. I'm hard into it and playing it every chance I get, when I'm not playing it, I'm thinking about it and loving exploring the nooks and crannies and the different ways to do fixers quests and find new nuggets which change my opinion about people in those gigs....
...none of those have anything to do with Johnny or the relic - and I'm enjoying it even more without them hanging over my playthrough.
You contradict yourself. You say it takes away from the roleplaying, yet it's your choice as V on how your relationship with Johnny goes. You can choose to humor him and let him have his fun or not. You can confront him at every corner, you can even convince him to admit he's just nothing more than digital data in your head. You have these choices, it's up to you how your V plays the game. No one is forcing you to befriend Johnny or even consider what he has to say. You have one flashback for Arasaka tower that you cannot avoid, but aside from that you're mostly free to do as you wish.
The story before Keanu Reeves joined was still about the biochip, but with him we just get more options if we're up to it. Regardless at no point does the story try to make you like Johnny. Dude is an asshole and you can tell him to fuck off.
You are correct in saying that the relationships V has are the strongest point of the game. They are, but V has a relationship with Johnny as well. Their possible friendship is up there with some of the best story I've seen in over 2 decades of gaming. The other relationships too of course, I don't think there are many games out there with this level of personal story telling. It's Quantic Dream levels of personal storytelling, but even bigger and better. The story is outstanding and their writing department should be extremely proud with what they've achieved.
It's why I take issue with topics like these. I just find it disrespectful to cherry pick and isolate a story beat of the game the way people do these days and dissect it, when the sum of it's parts is sublimely crafted.
I agree there's content missing, perhaps the whole first act of the game before we get chipped, perhaps even more. But what's left in is some of the best writing I've ever experienced.
No contradiction - I'm saying it's the weakest part and takes away from the strongest parts - and now I'm playing through avoiding everything wherever possible to do with him and the relic and I'm loving it more.
This thread is particularly about KeanuPunk - it's how threads work - so yes this thread is cherry picking that. Otherwise everything would exist in one single thread and we wouldn't have forums.
I'm glad you found the relationship V had with Johnny to be the best you've ever seen in 20 years, really, I am. Like I said, I love Cyberpunk, but the organic friendship between my V and Judy was much more powerful than my V and Johnny (regardless of how I played). The relationship with Panam, also much more organic and rewarding.
At this point I think you're just angry that there are a lot of people who don't like the Johnny part of the game, that's fine, you're allowed to.
So I bid you adieu, I'm going to keep playing Cyberpunk because I love it and hope we see mods and DLC that explore the world away from Johnny and the Relic, and I hope me not loving it for the same reasons as you means you can still continue loving it your way too.
I would've liked it if they gave players a more substantial buildup with the others V meets prior to the heist and perhaps if the world you encounter actually had greater depth and wasn't clearly lacking a lot of content in certain areas, I think the focus wouldn't have been as jarring as it is.
I wonder if there will be a new road map this summer. The story won't change much until they straighten out performance. Even then the there are many systems that need improvement or need to be added.
The current story feels more like a prequel to a bigger story. With all the curveballs being thrown out since launch, I wonder if CP2077 will be left to rot on the branch.
The current story feels more like a prequel to a bigger story. With all the curveballs being thrown out since launch, I wonder if CP2077 will be left to rot on the branch.
Hiring Keanu was a great move from marketing side of view. Not only as a voice actor, but him giving his face and motion as Johnny. Its certainly positive and joyfull for a lot of people to interact with this character.
Was story changed so much really because of Keanu? From what Ive read, at some point he said that he would like more material and they put more scenes with him but it doesnt have to mean that main story concept was changed. Having more Johnny presence as a commentary in a side quests or extra bonding moments by the grave etc is one. I dont think CDP would start new story from scratch just because Keanu likes it. He got paid for that anyway and again - from marketing side of view it didnt matter that much if he has 50 or 100 pages of script as CP2077 would still be promoted as a game with Keanu.
I think he did a great job and a way his relationship with V is executed is fantastic no matter if you`re becoming friends or you keep judging him. Its a well written character which is not white or black and through V`s journey has a chance to rethink who he was and learn a lesson.
Was story changed so much really because of Keanu? From what Ive read, at some point he said that he would like more material and they put more scenes with him but it doesnt have to mean that main story concept was changed. Having more Johnny presence as a commentary in a side quests or extra bonding moments by the grave etc is one. I dont think CDP would start new story from scratch just because Keanu likes it. He got paid for that anyway and again - from marketing side of view it didnt matter that much if he has 50 or 100 pages of script as CP2077 would still be promoted as a game with Keanu.
I think he did a great job and a way his relationship with V is executed is fantastic no matter if you`re becoming friends or you keep judging him. Its a well written character which is not white or black and through V`s journey has a chance to rethink who he was and learn a lesson.
The Silverhand situation very much reminded me Tales of Borderlands story. I even wonder if CDPR writers were inspired by it to some point.
In that game, the main character also gets an AI of long-dead charismatic villain, Handsome Jack, stuck in his brain. He sees Jack as a hologram, and no one else can see the hologram.
Jack also occasionally tries to take over main character body. And you also have a choice to befriend or confront him during the game, even though the ending is more linear than in CP.
All and all, there are tons of similarities.
Now, why people didn't complain about Jack as much as about Silverhand? I think it's one or more of the following reasons:
1) The Handsome Jack AI occasionally goes offline, allowing players to take a rest instead of being with him 24/7/365. That gives more screen time to other characters too.
2) The main quest does not resolve only around Jack. Ofc he's an important character, but not nearly as important as Silverhand and his chip.
3) Jack AI is not bad for main character health, unlike Silverhand's chip. That probably makes him less of a villain towards the player
In that game, the main character also gets an AI of long-dead charismatic villain, Handsome Jack, stuck in his brain. He sees Jack as a hologram, and no one else can see the hologram.
Jack also occasionally tries to take over main character body. And you also have a choice to befriend or confront him during the game, even though the ending is more linear than in CP.
All and all, there are tons of similarities.
Now, why people didn't complain about Jack as much as about Silverhand? I think it's one or more of the following reasons:
1) The Handsome Jack AI occasionally goes offline, allowing players to take a rest instead of being with him 24/7/365. That gives more screen time to other characters too.
2) The main quest does not resolve only around Jack. Ofc he's an important character, but not nearly as important as Silverhand and his chip.
3) Jack AI is not bad for main character health, unlike Silverhand's chip. That probably makes him less of a villain towards the player
I would also add that you can't actually shut him up. No matter how you treat him. The percentage of his bonding would be the usual 60%. Treating him like dirt or as a friend is no difference. The thing is. There's no way to shut him up 100%. He is stuck saying his dialog at all the same places. They didn't have alternate dialog that could fill in the gaps. Without him being there. The first play through I treated him as a friend. But a second play through I wanted to block him every which way. Nothing changed. You can't cut him off in dialog. I wanted to have sex with River 20 times. To piss him off so much. But you can't even do that. You can't endlessly curse him. And you can't inflict pain on him. While he inflicts pain on you. Every time you spat blood. I wanted to make him spit up blood.Now, why people didn't complain about Jack as much as about Silverhand? I think it's one or more of the following reasons:
1) The Handsome Jack AI occasionally goes offline, allowing players to take a rest instead of being with him 24/7/365. That gives more screen time to other characters too.
2) The main quest does not resolve only around Jack. Ofc he's an important character, but not nearly as important as Silverhand and his chip.
3) Jack AI is not bad for main character health, unlike Silverhand's chip. That probably makes him less of a villain towards the player
The suicide ending also only reflects the friendship bonding version. I would have had two suicide endings. The touching one that's in the game. And a evil ending. Where V goes all out on him. Say things like your band was crap. Alt was a whore. You don't care about no one but yourself. You ruined everyone you touched. I'd add an extra line for Corpo V. "If I had the chance. I would have killed you all the same. If not more harder than Arasaka did". I'd even have a phone call enabled for this ending. Where V calls up Rogue. And gives her a chance to say some last words to him. So he can feel even worse. Ending everything, by ripping out the chip from their head and crushing it. The other endings don't even let you gloat at him. When you return to your body. You can't laugh at him. You can't shove him off the edge of the platform. This would have been the perfect place for V to beat the crap out of him.
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All good points, but there's also the fact that if you choose to cooperate with Handsome Jack, it actually adds to the game, in that you get scanner entries "written" by Jack that are hilarious, as well as new and different dialogue. In CP2077, you can dislike Johnny, and not do his side quests, but the only difference that makes is whether you can access two endings. Being friendly with Handsome Jack made for a very different experience, throughout the latter episodes of Tales.
If I'm recalling correctly, Keanu Reeves specifically asked for Johnny's role to be doubled. And I also think it's a case of the devs being starstruck. Unfortuntely the end result is that the game becomes way too much about Johnny at the expense of V and some of the other side characters who needed his VO budget and dev time. The Love Like Fire interval was cool but by Transmission I was over it and by his quest chain with Rogue and Kerry...why do I have to inflict permanent neurological damage to my character and let some narcissist do whatever he likes with my characters body to get access to the only m/m romance? A lot of his POV content seemed like a really bad, juvenile attempt to appeal to straight guys, which is totally fine, by the way, but not when the marketing and dev comments made it seem like the target audience was more inclusive and not just like....fifteen year old edgelords.
Regardless, it's over now. It seems (and I hope) any future DLC and sequels are with V and only V. There are much, much stronger characters to focus on. Bye, Johnny. It was annoying to know you.
Regardless, it's over now. It seems (and I hope) any future DLC and sequels are with V and only V. There are much, much stronger characters to focus on. Bye, Johnny. It was annoying to know you.
Doubled script, not doubled role. CDPR has presented the game to Keanu somewhere in the summer of 2018. I can hardly believe that they managed to change the whole game concept for less than a year since almost everything after act1 is about the relic, V searching for a cure and etc. This is a typical cyberpunk story. The character is in quite a bad/life-threatening situation and of course, tries to find a solution. It is quite normal that someone who is literally in your head has a big role. How it is possible to make decisions at the end of the player doesn't have the chance to like or hate Johnny? Kerry is an ex-member of the Samurai band, it is more than natural that the connection with him happens because of Johnny. It is rather a poor decision to choose Kerry as a LI because some people are kind of forced to follow Johnny's path just because of Kerry.
The language...Johnny is an ex-US military veteran/rocker, arrogant, how is he supposed to talk?
The language...Johnny is an ex-US military veteran/rocker, arrogant, how is he supposed to talk?
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The Cyberpunk tabletop game is inspired by Hardwired and there is the story about a man, called Reno whose mind is uploaded in the net, his body is dead. He overwrites the mind of Albrecht Roon using a technology called Black mind. In the next novel Solip:system is clear that the Roon is still there. Of course, only CDPR could confirm what the inspiration was.The Silverhand situation very much reminded me Tales of Borderlands story. I even wonder if CDPR writers were inspired by it to some point.
In that game, the main character also gets an AI of long-dead charismatic villain, Handsome Jack, stuck in his brain. He sees Jack as a hologram, and no one else can see the hologram.
Jack also occasionally tries to take over main character body. And you also have a choice to befriend or confront him during the game, even though the ending is more linear than in CP.
All and all, there are tons of similarities.
Now, why people didn't complain about Jack as much as about Silverhand? I think it's one or more of the following reasons:
1) The Handsome Jack AI occasionally goes offline, allowing players to take a rest instead of being with him 24/7/365. That gives more screen time to other characters too.
2) The main quest does not resolve only around Jack. Ofc he's an important character, but not nearly as important as Silverhand and his chip.
3) Jack AI is not bad for main character health, unlike Silverhand's chip. That probably makes him less of a villain towards the player
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Yeah, Silverhand is too serious and edgy all the time. Jack is basically a Joker without makeup.
