Knew they'd nerf.

+
Thing is people that complain about a single skill being nerfed and the people complaining about a game being too easy on it's highest difficulty are in the same crowd... just on different sides of the fence.
If CDPR only nerfed Firestream on DM (which is this game's "hardcore" mode), we'd still have this thread (doesn't matter if the change was announced or not either)

Oh I agree, however, for simplicity's sake lets just lump them into the unreasonable nerfing gamer camp, and the one's who have legitimate concerns into the reasonable nerfing gamer camp, I was mostly addressing the latter, who are usually into fighting 8 story bosses armed only with a toothpick, because there is a certain thrill in beating adversaries that could level continents, for these folks that's what gaming is all about (Plus there are more than a few at CDPR as well) and for those thrill-seeking warriors, I don't believe they should be left out in the cold.

As for the reasonable nefing camp that house the regular gamers, of which games are not a constant test towards their mettle at every-single-step, who also would consider OCD obsessive level resource and logistical management insanely boring and pointless, then the game would be relegated to the pile sold at yard sales/pawn shop (an approximation of anything that is practical for digital DWNLDs of course) and would not reflect well for your *company's survival to ignore.

*Especially considering that in Eastern Europe, the gaming industry is much MUCH more infested with piracy, so CDPR has to compete (Very successfully I might add) with pirates, and not just digital ones, but the age-old Table-setup-in-the-open-market/street corner legitimate black-market piracy.

I personally fall in the middle, as I usually will hoard a king's bounty in health potions and unspent skill points, and never use them relying on skill until I encounter end-game type bosses, and even then, I still make sure I have enough unspent, just in case...But at the same time, I have no problem whatsoever in finally (After working at my char for hours/days/weeks) achieving god-like mastery over creatures that previously fed me my own ass, because what then is the point of even having levels, skills and spells then?

I say for the people who don't like the nerfs post game release, do have a valid point, because if you're still in the middle of your game, it ends up screwing up everything you are basing your game-play on, and it's a cheap way to provide game balance, as it ruins the current play-through because it's completely unpredictable, and often times an irreparable flaw in one's play-through!

As for those who want more challenge are bored to tears as they want an epic realistic world that they can lose themselves in, and still get the same thrill of leaping from mountain tops armed only with a parachute without the threat of real-world death, and not the frightful boredom of playing an interactive screen saver...

(Pre-OOO for Tes4 anyone?)

A great solution is to keep the easy-hard settings/gameplay alone, and to nerf to your heart's content while providing the most masochistic level of abuse in a DLC known to man, that is also optional to enable/install for those who thought DS was for pussies..That way you don't have to change the main game, and still provide the perfect solution in keeping the game a balls to the wall challenge!

But yeah, there's still gonna be the pissing unreasonable nerfing gamer camp...And you know what? FUCK 'EM, let their threads die off, and ignore them, they're no better than trolls..
 
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Can I be forgiven in advance for some silly input?

If I paid for a product, let's say a Ferrari or Lamborghini and the power was nerfed without notice, I'd not be happy.

Thankfully, if I was lucky enough to own one of these cars, they already come with soft/hard modes and I can CHOOSE which mode to drive the car in.

However if AFTER I purchased it and they changed without notice or warning I'd not be happy as you might understand. "Hey you don't need such a powerful car for the road that's why we took all its power away" (makes sense), without notice (does not make sense) despite the fact it was a primary reason for purchase in the first place! Lol

All that said, I do not care particularly as far as nerfing the signs goes because my issues with the game are around the fact the game constantly crashes as detailed in my other thread I am lucky to get 10mins game time.

Now if Ferrari sold me a car and it would randomly crash.... There'd be public outcry. Heck, if my car happened to be running fine, I took to the mechanic for a service and update and it started crashing or wouldn't start then same same

Whether I pay $100 for a game or $500,000 for a car, if the product does not work, or is 'damaged' after so called 'fixes' (or they changed other things without notice) then a) we have the right to raise the feedback and b) expect it would be fixed.

I fully understand it's a bit silly to compare the game in this way but in many ways it is not.

At this stage for me personally, until they can fix the constant crashing issues I won't 'drive' this game. Then I might actually be able to see how badly nerfed the signs are!

Still I understand the problems it raises for people and if only this company would pull their finger out and communicate better we might know where we stand on the various issues we all have.
 
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Why do people keep bringing up the books and lore as if it somehow makes this alright? If I recall correctly, Witchers don't use freaking projectile weapons in the lore.

But do people complain about crossbows breaking their precious lore and ultra realistic "Witcher simulation?" No of course not. Because then that would cause their condoning of Igni to be nerfed to fall apart. I never once complained about Quen being too OP in TW2 or Firestream being too OP in TW 3. So no one can accuse me of being a hypocrite. I loved Firestream. But now it's just another ability I'll never use thanks to CDPR.
 
I never once complained about Quen being too OP in TW2 or Firestream being too OP in TW 3.

Of course not, your campaign seems to revolve around OP abilities to make the game as easy as possible for yourself. You could've just played the game on the easiest difficulty to emulate the effect of 'OP ablities' rather than waste your time here riling everyone up.
 
OH noes, I used an ability that made the game slightly too easy for myself in Blood and Broken Bones! I better commit seppuku for I have disgraced my family's name! How will I ever live with myself? I'll never impress any women with my lackluster gaming abilities! I'll never land that 6 figure salary job! I'll never get in the Guinness Book of World Records!

Please.
 
OH noes, I used an ability that made the game slightly too easy for myself in Blood and Broken Bones! I better commit seppuku for I have disgraced my family's name! How will I ever live with myself? I'll never impress any women with my lackluster gaming abilities! I'll never land that 6 figure job! I'll never get in the Guinness Book of World Records!

This is the exact kind of attitude that prevents us from taking you seriously. You simply don't know what constructive criticism is, and without it you're never going to change anyone's mind.

"It's a single player game" is not a good enough reason. If that really is the best you have then you're just wasting everyone's time, including your own.
 
This is the exact kind of attitude that prevents us from taking you seriously. You simply don't know what constructive criticism is, and without it you're never going to change anyone's mind.

"It's a single player game" is not a good enough reason. If that really is the best you have then you're just wasting everyone's time, including your own.

You're not offering constructive criticism though. At all. You're just short of accusing me of trolling just now, and a couple pages back was no different. And it's a single player game IS a good enough reason. You just refuse to listen. You're not going to change my mind with the way you talk down to people.
 
You're not offering constructive criticism though.

I just did. My criticism is with your attitude towards this situation and I was trying to explain why you're having such a hard time convincing anyone here. Firestream was a broken skill that needed to be nerfed. All you did was come here yelling that there was 'nothing wrong with it'. Try to reflect and think about what you've actually achieved here by doing that?

And it's a single player game IS a good enough reason.

Just in case my implication wasn't obvious: there are plenty of SP games that receive balance changes to combat and what not. Why do you think that is?
 
So, because other games do it, that makes it alright? Oh lawd, your logic is truly infallible. /sarcasm. I came in here and said my piece. You just disagree with it, that's the only reason why you seem to think my "Attitude" stinks.
 
So, because other games do it, that makes it alright? Oh lawd, your logic is truly infallible. /sarcasm. I came in here and said my piece. You just disagree with it, that's the only reason why you seem to think my "Attitude" stinks.

Since you're just refusing to research on the matter, allow me to at least try to clear it up for you:

Why balance a single player game?

At the end of the day, you're balancing your game because you want to preserve your game's choices, and you want your game to be fair. This is true for a multiplayer game or a single player game, but there are some differences. In a competitive game, the spotlight will be shining much more brightly on the job you did of balancing the game, if for no other reason than because people will be looking for a way to get out of admitting they lost fair and square. But make no mistake -- if a single player game is to have any replay value, it must be well-balanced.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134768/understanding_balance_in_video_.php?print=1
 
Uh, yeah....that's still just an opinion piece. And I still disagree with it. Balance has absolutely nothing to do with replay value in my honest opinion. Those two aren't even remotely connected. What does Firestream have to with the game's choices either? Still not seeing where you're going with this.

Firestream didn't need to be nerfed. That's what I believe and will always believe. Don't like it? Tough.
 
What does Firestream have to with the game's choices either? Still not seeing where you're going with this.

Seriously? Are you sure you're not trolling here?

There are five Witcher Signs, 4 of which have alternate versions. That makes 9 forms to choose from, so if Firestream is the most OP, which form do you think players will default to the most? Rendering the other 8 almost useless.

This is also what they meant by replay value. You start your game again and again you're presented with the same choices, and Firestream is still OP, you're naturally going to go with Firestream. It'll be Firestream every time because it's the most effective, therefore zero replay value because you're essentially doing the same thing over and over.

Balance has absolutely nothing to do with replay value in my honest opinion.

Care to explain why? It's not 'constructive criticism' unless you explain why.
 
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This is false.

This is a video I made to illustrate how useless firestream became compared to standard igni. If you notice in my build and equipment, I spec'd out for a pure sign build with a strong emphasis on igni. I can use all signs equally broken. I just take issue with how firestream, the alternate mode of igni, is useless compared to the standard use of the sign therefore coming to the conclusion that it'd be a waste of points to invest into firestream.



Also, the hogwash on signs being the only OP thing is just that - hogwash.

Another video of a half assed build I made to show melee is just as broken. I since came up with a better build that utilizes the skill that gives a 50% bonus to mutagens on a pure combat build. So take in mind as you watch me whirltrolling the guards that I can make whirl that much more obscene


My issue is that people like to point out how signs are OP but in the same breath ignore that combat is just as god damn broken. If signs need to adjusted for "balance" than so do combat skills. If one argues that I shouldn't be able to burn guards with ease using igni than I also shouldn't be able to press a button and then hold that same button to stunlock while also breaking a guard's block allowing me to kill them effortlessly. I mean damn, a guard can't even come up behind me while I'm using whirl because whirl will hit the guard trying to sneak up behind me. One word: broken.

But...it's a single player game. Who gives a damn? This isn't the Souls series where I can invade your world and troll you with overpowered builds to halt your progress and steal your crowns.

I agree, there are more things than signs that are just broken, However only because it is a singleplayer game that does not mean that it does not deserve balance. A player will always use all the means that the game gives to him, the "if you want want to be OP dont use this and that"-argument is not valid, don't know who ever came to the idea to accept this as a fact. People want a finished, balanced, bug-free experience. Trainers or bonus "just for fun" unlocks are for godmode.
 
Here's a video with my witcher using normal igni vs a level 35 griffin. I'm level 18.
8-11k damage per tick at lvl 18 ... Only 178% sign intensity


Burning is not lasting so long because of level difference, so it's not really stun locking the mob, but it still staggers the mob, preventing him from attacking me. It's the only difference with pre nerf firestream. But on mobs with less than 6-7 level difference, i can stun lock them on first igni hit.
 

This is actually a pretty nice article... no mind blowing revelations in there, but even if you only stat the obvious 90% of all players can learn something from that :p
(makes my post shorter at least)
Extra Kudos for mentioning David Sirlin and bitching about Oblivions leveling system XD
Of course those are just opinions... that's kinda the thing with design it's at least partially subjective. (If you disagree try to figure what a "true RPG" is, referencing "facts" presented on this very forum)

I don't really get the "never balance a single player game" attitude tbh.
Yes, you can be like:
"It's a single player game, you do not create a lop-sided meta and only a few nerds that can't restrict themselves will bitch about OP strats"
tho
"It's a single player game, you do not destroy any meta and you will only piss of a few nerds that got too used to their OP strats"
is just as valid... imho at least.
"It shipped that way, so they should leave it at that" is also a pretty poor argument, almost everyone is in favor of fixing any features that "hurt" the player - bug or not, take the XP system, or fall damage for example", so why is it "shady business practices" to change up some things that benefit that player?
And if you are against any nerfing, does that also mean you do not want bugs fixed that only benefit the player (Dimeritium bomb glitch for instance)?

If a developer want's to deliver an enjoyable and challenging combat experience, the game cannot boil down to a really small set of dominant strategies and reducing the game down to it's second best set of strats at least can yield an overall experience closer to the original design goal and I think a developer has every right to at least try...

To be honest though, I think that this games combat is beyond saving... no amount of tinkering will make it even remotely decent, thus I'm kinda indifferent towards any changes... a mere water drop in an ocean of poor design choices...
 
You know what, I ain't even mad anymore. I started out with a pure signs build, ended up with about +225% sign intensity with full griffon gear at level 30. Yes, Igni is delightfully effective especially against humanoids. absolutely LOVE burning all those damn witch hunters to death. LOVE giving them exactly what they fear. I managed to beat the game on Death March just days before they released patch 1.07. I struggled badly in the last part because Igni is almost useless against the wild hunt monsters, except maybe a very short burning effect and armor debuff.

I'm happy because I beat the game the way I WANTED to. Without the nerf nonsense. Last night I decided to give it another try, and finish up the treasure hunts and side quests. Popped a respec potion and went full sword, maxxed out fast/strong sword styles. Guess what? I'm hitting MUCH HARDER than I did previously with full signs and almost no sword. I'm geting 1k-1.5k crits even on elementals and golems. And i'm not even wearing Feline gear yet, and no mutagens either (only got the +signs ones). With full gear and muties I think i can hit 2k crits consistently, maybe more with a +50% crit dmg sword. So yeah, no point in speccing Igni anymore, the only one I use is Yrden.

tl;dr - The Igni sign was slightly OP because of the stunlock effect, NOT the damage. The most dmg I ever did with Igni at +225% sign intensity was about 350-400 DPS, and I had to stand still at close range, which was very risky on DM. With max sword skills, I am hitting 1.5k crits consistently, while dodging and moving around. Nerf was NOT needed. What they should have done was slightly decrease the stun lock effect from the Firestream. The damage dealt was actually reasonable.
 
Firestream used to be powerful because you could stun lock enemies, now I think I'll drop in in favour of something else, domination could be fun, standard Igni still kicks ass though.
 
Is there a point in using firestream post 1.07? It just seems to deal less than half the damage the regular igni does while leaving you completely exposed. :facepalm2:
 
If you are playing the game on PC, its not very hard to mod pre 1.07 igni back. Firestream now uses different burning effect, all you have to do is give it burning effect of regular igni.
 
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