Knew they'd nerf.

[PillarBiter]

Igni could have used a slight nerf, but i'd do it this way:

Give igni (any form) a starting 25% burning chance. Every 1% sign intensity increases burn chance by 0,25%. Don't change anything about the damage. Firestram doesn't burn enemies.

Why would I find this a good balance?
- Because someone going for a sign build would gain great benefit from a high sign intensity %, and retain the awesomeness that was his build.
- The final tier of igni would no longer be useless, allowing someone with lower SI% to still burn effectively.
- Firestream still does very good damage, but doesn't flinch enemies, which balances it out.

 

[fchopin]

Developers should not nerf powers unless they let us know so we can prepare how to change how we play.


We should not have to find out during playing the game.

 

[gaybennewell]

they can nerf it however they please. it's their game and in the end the developers usually have the best intention.
on the upside, if you have a pc, you can mod the game to have overpowered igni

 

[Goodmongo]

they can nerf it however they please. it's their game and in the end the developers usually have the best intention.
on the upside, if you have a pc, you can mod the game to have overpowered igni

That's no answer. Heck on a PC I can just enter console mode and type "God". But that doesn't resolve the issue. Why do I need to balance the game and powers?

 

[DNMR2K5]

There are five Witcher Signs, 4 of which have alternate versions. That makes 9 forms to choose from, so if Firestream is the most OP, which form do you think players will default to the most? Rendering the other 8 almost useless.

This is also what they meant by replay value. You start your game again and again you're presented with the same choices, and Firestream is still OP, you're naturally going to go with Firestream. It'll be Firestream every time because it's the most effective, therefore zero replay value because you're essentially doing the same thing over and over.

This is the best explanation for game balance that I ever read...

Though I must admit that CDPR should've DLC'd this instead of nerfing mid-game, though admittedly, it's easily mod-able, (Only requiring ticking options in an XML file) aside from general principal, people shouldn't get too worked up about it.

 

[Tahon]

Seriously? The TS is complaining about developers fixing balance and threatening not to buy their future games unless they stop fixing the balance?

Wtf is wrong with that guy?..

 

[MuriloBFS]

There is a fine line between balancing a skill and nerfing it to oblivion. As it is, there is no benefit for using fire stream. You'll lose 3 points, you'll get exposed every time you use it (which might as well get you killed in higher difficulties) and you won't get any damage pay off for the risks.

Igni is the only offensive sign in Witcher 3, saying they nerfed it to increase replayability and force people to use other signs makes no bloody sense! There are quite a few enemies immune/highly resistant to fire which would already do that. Even prior to patch 1.07 you would use igni against a wraith or a wild hunt warrior, you would probably go for Yrden or Axii.

The whole balance/fixing argument gets even less credibility when you realise that you can get as "broken" as a pre 1.07 igni build (or even more broken) using a fast attack build or an alchemy build.

It feels more as way to force players to play the way they want instead of a way to fix things.

 

[CartoonishlyInept]

Developers should not nerf powers unless they let us know so we can prepare how to change how we play.


We should not have to find out during playing the game.

IMO this is the only real issue here. This was a big change and it wasn't even in the patch notes.

On the whole though I am glad they did it. My build was based around igni and I never used anything else. Because on DM igni fire stream kills everything. Every time I would be fighting things like Golems I'd be thinking how stupid it is that fire so easily trounces an enemy who should probably be immune to fire.

Now I am forced to use multiple other mechanics including potions and oils to do the same job as igni (before the nerf) and it makes for a more fulfilling gameplay.

 

[Chronoid]

You start your game again and again you're presented with the same choices, and Firestream is still OP, you're naturally going to go with Firestream.

Says who? You? It's called choice. Just because something is OP Doesn't mean people will flock to it time and time again. One playthrough I used mostly Quen and Axii. Just because you don't have the self-control to not go with a certain ability doesn't mean everyone lacks the same willpower.

Also, to answer your insipid question about balance and replay value.....the latter isn't based on the former. Replay value is, quite simply based on one thing and one thing only. Incentive. Balance really doesn't come into play at all. If there is no incentive to replay a game, whether it be through the gameplay, extrinsic rewards for completely multiple playthroughs or in the case of The Witcher 2, diverging story paths, then there is no replay value.

 

[DonPhill]

witchers are not mages.

rpg motha fucka rpg

 

[SoloCreep]

I would be OK with them keeping firestream as it is now and then nerfing igni blast so that firestream would be stronger. Older firestream made fights too easy, it was too strong and because of that, I avoided using it.

 

[DNMR2K5]

Says who? You? It's called choice. Just because something is OP Doesn't mean people will flock to it time and time again. One playthrough I used mostly Quen and Axii. Just because you don't have the self-control to not go with a certain ability doesn't mean everyone lacks the same willpower.

Also, to answer your insipid question about balance and replay value.....the latter isn't based on the former. Replay value is, quite simply based on one thing and one thing only. Incentive. Balance really doesn't come into play at all. If there is no incentive to replay a game, whether it be through the gameplay, extrinsic rewards for completely multiple playthroughs or in the case of The Witcher 2, diverging story paths, then there is no replay value.

Wait, you've quoted the wrong person...That was "Tangsta's quote"

 

[Pawlle]

Says who? You? It's called choice. Just because something is OP Doesn't mean people will flock to it time and time again. One playthrough I used mostly Quen and Axii. Just because you don't have the self-control to not go with a certain ability doesn't mean everyone lacks the same willpower.

What year are you from friend? 1998?Games should not be unbalanced SP or otherwise...
The mindset of gamers has changed....it is all about maximizing your builds now...yo...it has nothing to do with self restraint,i have personally never used the ingni build but it STILL bothered me that it existed in the game....its very existence means that when designing enemies and encounters the devs had that build in mind as well(as they should because they thought it as viable)....meaning that some encounters and/or all encounters were potentially botched and/or made less fun for other builds....and by balancing this build they can balance the other encounters now so that the game can be more enjoyable for everyone....at this i look at as a first step for more changes that will make the game better.....
Or we can just admit that CDPR,as much as i love 'em,can't balance games for shit :surprise:

 

[Tangsta]

here is a fine line between balancing a skill and nerfing it to oblivion.

Nobody said it was a perfect fix, the issue here is whether or not balancing is needed at all. The obvious answer is yes, and you haven't provided a compelling reason otherwise.

Igni is the only offensive sign in Witcher 3,

Yrden and alternative Yrden can also be offensive. Aard can be used offensively by knocking opponents down and going for the insta kill, same with Axii. Just because they don't deal damage does not mean you can't be creative with them.

 

[CraigEvans]

whats the point of trying new builds if you have a developer that nerfs a single player game without warning,it just feels like you could be wasting time and effort.

 

[f0me]

The only legitimate points in this thread boil down to:
1. The magnitude of the nerf makes regular igni preferable in almost every situation.
2. It should have been in the changelog.

All this self-entitled nonsense about "Devs should not rebalance single-player games" and "I should be able to play the game any way I like" is distracting, counterproductive, and more justification for the developers to simply ignore the real issues.

 

[Lukaszus2]

i agree with you, though imo its important to mention the reason for igni beeing preferd over fire stream. Fire stream is nerfed so much its absolutely useles now, which is just as bad as it was.

 

[kalpa2004]

Aside from firestream ekhidna decoction got broken too, it's far less useful than it was. Decreasing the small pool decoctions which are actually useful even further. Both of these weren't in the patch notes.

Can't help but wonder maybe it's an unintentional new bug, similar to how now bestiary menu has a new bug and some quests are broken after 1.07.

I mean I love how they are supporting and fixing the game, and I don't mind the game being balanced. But balancing for a SP game should really be left till the end when all the bugs have been fixed.

 

[kalel78]

firstly it isnt an RPG,theres no roleplaying in a game where you have such limited options to do anything,everything is set in stone,and nothing you do changes anything other than a few dialogue switchs.
limited option to do stuff??

what about the bloody baron quest line (not going into further details.. but that quest line has some pretty major consequences depending on how you play it out)?
and im sure there are other examples as well.. that is just the most memorable for me at the moment.

what about the dialogue options that have you act aggressively, bribe, or use the axii sign?
what about the system where you can barter for your contract reward or just take what they offer you?
what about the fact you have the choice to be charitable?

seems like there are a lot of options where you can role play the character..

also, from a gameplay system.. this has all of the makings of an RPG.. crafting, inventory, stat management, and tons of loot.

there is also a pretty good skill system that requires choices... do i make Geralt better at withstanding toxicity, or do i focus more on making him better at signs? do i focus on quick melee attacks or slower attacks that do more damage? what about mutagens? do i make my red skills super powerful, or do i want to focus on the the blue or green? what about the yellow skills?

wow.. seems like we do have choices after all.

secondly if you are going to accuse people of jumping to conclusions, dont start the statement by jumping to a conclusion that it "may" be a bug or "maybe" wasnt intended

jumping to a conclusion would be prematurely saying the issue is or is not a bug.. i never claimed it WAS a bug.. i just brought up the question.

its always been a problem with games,people naturally assume everyone plays the games the same way they do,so when something is nerfed or removed,if it doesnt affect you,then you think its a crime of some sort to play a game from a different viewpoint.

play the game however you like.. and i never said ignii should be changed or nerfed at all. but if CD Project Red DID think it was imbalanced.. its perfectly within their rights to change how it behaves. should the change be notated? of course.. but, as stated.. its POSSIBLE the behavior wasnt intended.

its arrogance and ignorance on an astounding scale

if joe wants an over powered igni,and then has it taken away,its joes right to be pissed off.

its nobodys right to then spout crap at them because they didnt want an over powered igni.


its a lot easier NOT to use the igni,than to just pander to the "flop em outers" and nerf a game that we paid money for on the premise that it promised a gameplay we like...not you or your play style..thats your business.



and btw...you saying its the greatest rpg this century does not make it so...thats just your opinion.

im hard pressed to find a game thats better. but, its fine if you dont like it... not everyone will. that being said, you seem to care about the game to some extent.. or why would you be posting?

more arrogance.

see reply in bold.

 

[MuriloBFS]

How's firestream in 1.08? Is it usable again?