Kofe Plays CP2077 [critical]

[kofeiiniturpa]

Hoo, boy. Your humble narrator contacted Meredith expecting to get a job, but... well, that didn't happen. Something else did. Fluids were exchanged and then off she ran.

Before my expedition to the innards of the Militech broad, Judy showed me peculiarly conveniently recorded braindances from Evelyn. They weren't snuff stuff, but clues as to what she was up to. Who knows why those were recorded.

I leave Judy in her apartment and go on to pay my debt for Vik and on the way I leisurely take out a racketeer with his gang. Then I kill a seven member gang who's harrassing a poor police officer (I mistake one civilian for a ganger, because she sounds like a ganger too; god knows what she was doing there amidst it all) by shooting them from behind a tree where, once again, nobody hears me. Turns out it's not just the snuff guys who are deaf. I also respond to a police call about an assault that turns out to be three hobos having a nap and warming at a burning dumpster. But hey, in Night City an assault is an assault and it has to be stopped, so I break their necks. Perhaps they were assaulting the mattress or the dumpster. Who knows. These things seem to work on a need to know basis, and a tool like me, doesn't need to know anything but what to do. They do have "evidence" on them that I am to deliver somehwere, though. Or so the police message tells me. It's Night City, baby.

When I come to Vik's and offer him 21k eddies, he declines by saying I need them more, but takes them anyway because I can't resist myself from insisting he takes my money, that would - yes - actually need myself more. Or, not really need, but want. So what's done is done.

I figure, now's a good time to leave Evelyn and Judy to their own faculties and get back to working and making money. I'm about to die because of Keahnny in my head, but I will not die poor. And so I'm off to do some gigs to people I barely know, but have a sneaking suspicion I should. As I walk to Jackies motorcycle I witness a poltergeist on a trashcan and a wraith disguised as a normal person sliding through the area.

It's Night City and everything is possible.

Impressions:

It's funny - or, rather sad - how the character progressions visually works almost excellently. Quickhacks bumb up and sneaking bumbs up and I get perk points, and all that. Superficially it works just like it should (for a game like this). But then, going to the character screen it all falls down again seeing the available perks and what the stats do. This game could be so, so much more if it had more skills and more interactivity, and if the skills, stats and perks actually did something to write home about.

I checked Viks inventory for cyberware and... +20% carrying capacity, breachdown protocol time increased 100%, +20 armor, etc. They are just perks that you buy with money. Whoever designed this systems must've not felt very creative. The baseline concept of stats, skills, perks, cyberware is good and interesting. But the implementation is so lackluster, that it really hurts the experience. There's nothing interesting there that would affect the gameplay in a positive way and add intrigue and possibilities. Absolultely nothing. Which is a damn shame.

I'm also a bit confused as I thought stats went only up to 10, but as I tried, my Cool got itself to 11. So what is it? What's the cap? Or is there a cap at all?

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I've been reacquainting myself to the streets and sights of NIght City and I say "re-" because I have a strange feeling, that I've already been here quite a while. We allegedly did a bunch of jobs with Jackie already after I got played out of Arasaka, but I have no recollections of it or anything to show me that yes, I was actually there. No money, no gear, no reknownment, nothing. But anyway, here I stand at a corner of a street having just chased down and chatted with angsty cab AI's with a memory of bashing garden ornaments into pieces with a huge dildo.

Thatr Dorsett girl, whom I lifted out from the bath tub calls me and offers a job to retrieve his databank. Why not, I think. She expresses concerns that I might decrypt her shard and look what's into it, and urges me not to. And I'm not really interested either, so I decide not to.

But it turns out that I probably should've, since her attitude about it is peculiar and once our deal is done and I head to the door of her apartment, I suddenly decide to go back and ask about it. But the only thing she says is: "What the fuck?" Well, fuck her then. May we never see again.

I also take on Regina's gig about the cyberpsycho. The dude holes in a garage with some drones and a lot of tech junk. And on the roof is a gang of... I don't know who. I dispatch the gang and disappoint Regina by offing the psycho, but I'm sure there'll be other psychos to catch for her experiments.

While riding around the city I take part in various police incidents and gather a wealthy share of guns and armor and what not, but knowing that I just can't get much money out of them, I decide to just disassemble them all. It's a kind of a hobby of mine to take parts out of stuff and glue them on to other stuff in hopes that something cool will come up. So far all I've managed to create is just more junk, but maybe some day will be my "ship in a bottle" moment.

I also almost bought a cute little MaiMai that steers like a forklift, but has working breakes and whose tires actually create some friction against the asphalt when I break. But then I think about it again... 14,000€b for that little shopping bag. Half of what I got. Maybe I can just save a bit more... and consider the options. My corpo days are long forgotten and I don't fancy an expensive sportscars or motorcycles other than Jackies (which is a relative calm and pleasant to drive)... I mean, I.... Eh... Who am I kidding? Who wouldn't want to drive around town in a red MaiMai with the death metal songs of Ritual FM loud on the radio? Now THAT'S street credibility.

Maybe I'll go buy it afterall. There's just one more thing...


Impressions:

I've been pretty critical so far so perhaps I can start with a more positive note with this one.

Against my expectations the game has grown on me a bit. Doing the chores it offers is surprisingly addictive in a "just one more small job" kinda way. The level design around these missions usually offers a good amount options for entries and exits so looking around the objective house/area to find out all that, is fun in a way. And fun even though on the outset it's very menial and samey.

The character systems, while still shit at what they are supposed to be doing (that criticism has not gone away and they need fixing), work on the surface level in a manner that feels rewarding. It feels good to witness this or that skill going up at the top of the screen after being using it for some time. If only the system had some more weight to it and was a lot broader.

Heck, I even took a liking to the smart weapons. It's not how I would've done it or wanted it to be, but it kinda sorta resembles a proper RPG gunplay (that's real time). Too bad my character is not a combat character and does pretty much neglicable damage with guns (aside from revolver head-crits from stealth with a silencer), and that it takes pretty long to even get one.

There really is a fun game here. It is covered in thick layers of shit, but it does take a peek from under there occasionally... Someone just needs to clean the shit away and replace and retune somestuff so that the shit doesn't accumulate again.

No that the positives are out of the way, I gotta say it's really, really frustrating that if you manage to off a batch of "redskull" enemies at a street-event, and with a non-combat character that takes a lot of work from a player who's not you're average FPS nut, when you loot them and you find some "cool(tm)" stuff and it's all locked behind a levelgate. In my case, I'm at level 14 and the stuff I found was level 28. And I know that there is no point in saving them, because when I'm at level 28 it's all just common stuff if not even obsolete. And you can't even get anything interesting out of them by selling or dissassembling them.

This is just unrewarding and frustrating. CDPR, take note: THE ITEMIZATION IN YOUR GAME IS SHIT. And I say that with all the love and care.

Even more so when, in order to get "the job done" in the first place, you have to pull off several headshot criticals from stealth when the higher level enemies notice you the second you pull the trigger and off you in one or two shots, and you have to lose their attention again.

It's not "challenging" or "difficult" in a fun way. It is just menial and frustrating. And I would happily take an oldschool "you missed" pop option in the place of the damage if the hit's I could pull off meant the real deal.

There's definitely some refurbishing to be done in that regard.

Also, I'm a bit fumbled as I couldn't find almost anything characterprogression related in the way of the smart guns. Are there but a perk or two?


There is definitely some refurbidibg to fo.

I’ll get to suggestions on ”fixing” thingsby the end of the game.

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

Also, I'm interested in how @Suhiira and @Sardukhar are doing with the game....

 

[Suhiira]

Still on the City Kid Netrunner path but having seen the skill trees I've changed from COOL as my secondary attribute to TECH. I NEED the armor.

I finished Act I and have pretty much ignored Act II as I deal with side missions, police calls, etc. I want/need the money and skills. From what I see on the RL net those that are skilled at FPS seem to be pretty much breezing thru the game. I on the other hand seem to be a two hit wonder (in spite I using the best armor I can find regardless of how it looks). Most battles where I can't keep at range and fry their brains with Netrunning I'll need to reload once or twice because I get killed.

Being the hopeless incompetent with FPS that I am I was hoping Smart Weapons would permit me to get by but that's not the case. At the same "level" Smart Weapons do one-third to one-half the damage a Power or Tech weapon, meaning the opposition has two to three times longer to shoot back. Thus the need to spec into TECH and take advantage of both the inherent armor boost from the TECH stat and being able to create/upgrade my armor.

I know a lot of people claim Netrunning is over powered, and if you're (at least) semi-skilled with FPS and use it in conjunction I'm sure it seems that way. But in my case it pretty much is my ability to attack and without it I'd quite literally be unable to play CP2077.

Driving?
I walk ... well run. Which is actually fine because it gives me more opportunity to see and interact with the city. But I have learned that NCPD are just another street gang. Get to close and they open fire just like the gang bangers.

Speaking of which ... @kofeiiniturpa said 'V' has no rep ... you're wrong. Every gang and cop in the city has you on their "shoot on sight" list!

I love Night City, so much going on, just listening to NPCs talk to each other is a joy compared to most games with their zero dialog NPCs. Heck, I even have a pet cat now.

While many of the side missions are your classic "kill & loot" stuff the reasons you're given by the fixers for why the job "needs" to be done are pretty reasonable. This gang killed my son, that gang made and sold the drugs my daughter OD'd on, I've come across two gangs having a shoot out in the streets so killed both groups.

All and all I'm enjoying the game and looking forward to making/upgrading gear that will allow me to progress with the main story-line ... eventually.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Being the hopeless incompetent with FPS that I am I was hoping Smart Weapons would permit me to get by but that's not the case. At the same "level" Smart Weapons do one-third to one-half the damage a Power or Tech weapon, meaning the opposition has two to three times longer to shoot back. Thus the need to spec into TECH and take advantage of both the inherent armor boost from the TECH stat and being able to create/upgrade my armor.

Stealth would seem to be your route, provided you have the patience for it. A silenced power revolver with holosight and some related stealth and handguns perks does around 1000-3500 damage when you shoot while not detected and takes almost anyone down in one shot. However, should you be detected, it's pretty much hopeless unless you have a shooter build otherwise too. I don't, and it's horrible.

The smart guns are indeed pretty... unhelpful. They allow you to not need precise aiming and you can even target different bodyparts by moving the mouse close to said parts (funnily enough, that's something I suggested in the past, though in different context and with a different system in mind), but all in all they're not something to patch up the shooter combat in the long run due to the HP bloat.

The armor systems is a bit odd too. I can never tell if I have a lot or just a bit of armor, or if my guns are doing a lot or just a pinch of damage inspite the numbers going in hundreds and me constantly finding better guns and better armor.

I now have a rag around my head that gives me 68 armor (which is around twice better than anything I've found looting or what I can craft). It makes very little sense. my other gear is "seemingly" good too. But still, if the chalenge is anything beyond low or moderate, I go down in one or two shots and need to get 10-30 headshots accross to bring the enemies down.

Outside stealth, I'm completely hopeless. And the game plays very, very much like an average shooter.

---------------------

Not much to report on the playing side. I did the mission for the Voodoo boys. I left Sasquatch untouched and stroke a deal with the Netwatch. Then I helped Delamain and got myself what's supposed to be a taxi with some cool bells and whistles and now with my personal Delamain AI too, but suddenly it doesn't know how to drive a car, nor is the vehicle itself much to write home about. Slow and clumsy and seemingly with no security systems that were advertised earlier in the game. Oh well.

The small imressions now are, that just after the game started growing on me a bit, I'm starting to reach the threashold to put it down at 42 hours. From previous experience I know, that somewhere around 60 hours I start to get seriously bored, so I think I might just rush to the end if nothing special happens.

At first I thought that I might try a second run after the first and see if there's actually some changes for different gameplay and choices, but I might have to postpone that, if not indefinitely, at least a few months. It's just not that interesting game to play.

 

[Suhiira]

But still, if the chalenge is anything beyond low or moderate, I go down in one or two shots and need to get 10-30 headshots accross to bring the enemies down.

Outside stealth, I'm completely hopeless. And the game plays very, very much like an average shooter.

I'm having exactly the same experience.

I do have a silenced Power revolver with a silencer I use for stealth kills but find that when I need to use it for straight up shooting I need 10ish hits to drop a foe.

One thing I've found VERY useful is a Tech sniper rifle to shoot thru the cover they use.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

One thing I've found VERY useful is a Tech sniper rifle to shoot thru the cover they use.

Haven't found a TECH one yet, or if I have, it's the one levelgated somewhere around 15 levels above me and also has that "full potential at BODY 6" indicator - I only have 3 - of which I don't know what it means (damage or handling penalties).

 

[Suhiira]

<clip> "full potential at BODY 6" indicator - I only have 3 - of which I don't know what it means (damage or handling penalties).

Seems to be a hard gate.
You need BODY 6 to equip/use.

But I haven't noticed any minimum stat requirements on the Tech weapons, Power, yes, Tech, no.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Think I'll drop this.

I just finished the game and it didn't leave too sweet a taste in my mouth. Made a sort of review about it too (link in my sig if anyone cares).

All my fears from the years past bore beautiful black fruit and I'm not too anxious to getting back to the game before it gets finished and fixed. If it will, that is.

There is potential for a good game. But that potential's something that if it gets reached, it won't happen in a long time. There's too much stuff missing and too much stuff to be fixed that'd require so much work that I'm not sure it'll be even attempted.

Needless to say I'm a tad disappointed.

Anyhow, I suppose that's that for this thread for now.

 

[Suhiira]

I'll continue this a bit.

200+ hours into the game, finally made lev 50 (BODY 9, INT 20, COOL, 6, TECH 18, REF 18) still relying mostly on Netrunning for combat but I have an Iconic smartpistol (Genjiroh) that's damn useful at times, tho I'm sort of wishing I'd spec'd into SMGs because volume of fire is critical when you don't have the player skills to FPS.

Still little problem with bugs, but since the 1.06 patch I seem to be experiencing more lag when I try to turn quickly then I was previously (I'm playing with a low-end rig). So this makes run-n-gun even less of an option then it would otherwise be (not that it was ever an option for me). Also lately I seem to be having issues with sniper rifles. V will shoulder one, take aim, then will suddenly pull the weapon off her shoulder thus ruining the shot I was planning to take. No clue why, bug?

I've earned several trophy's for completing all the NCPD missions in various neighborhoods. Not because I like the "Kill them all then loot" nature of the content but because it's the best way I've found to farm XP/loot (mostly to sell/disassemble to support crafting) so I can upgrade armor. Speaking of which, I now have over 5000 armor ... and still get killed in 1-2 hits fairly often. I've seen on the RL net people demonstrating near invulnerability, and this can be true when dealing with low/zero threat content, but anything moderate or above I'm no more resilient then I was at lev 1. Devs (or more likely management) REALLY needs to learn big numbers are meaningless if the game is designed to scale such that the player is no more effective at max level then they were at the beginning. Players want to feel progression as they improve their characters not like they're trapped in a treadmill.

Now that I'm lev 50 and have good gear I'll pay more attention to the main story line, tho I want to complete ALL the fixer missions just to see what happens when you do. Are more generated? Doubtful since they all seem hand crafted.

I did try the racing mini-game and was amazed to discover that if you crash due to your own poor driving (and/or the horrible controls) the opposition will wait for you to catch up. Is it even possible to lose???

CP2077 is still a game with excellent promise, if you're looking for a looter-shooter. As an RPG it's mediocre at best, but good RPGs seem to be an extinct species. I've tried Larian's Baldurs Gate 3 and it's merely Divinity with a different title and a few more RPG elements. Maybe there's hope for Bloodlines 2 ... maybe.

CDPR has succumed to wanting to create a game that can be all things to all people, and as always the result is a game that's mediocre at everything.

To the management at CDPR, pick an emphasis, maybe two, and build your game around that.

Your current approach of making mediocre games with high sales potential is OK if all you care about is your profit margin. But if you want to make good games you need to seriously rethink things.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I did try the racing mini-game and was amazed to discover that if you crash due to your own poor driving (and/or the horrible controls) the opposition will wait for you to catch up. Is it even possible to lose???

Oh shit, wow.

People have also reported that if you’re too good, the opposition will catch you via teleporting right behind you.

Sometimes I have to wonder do all the developers of games actually play games themselves at all.

For a number of reasons I have to believe that often times they just don’t. It is simply not possible that certain design elements make their way into a game due to someone ”in the know” of things putting them there honestly thinking that ”Hey, this must be really fun for people to engage in”.

Maybe there's hope for Bloodlines 2 ... maybe.

As far as I’ve heard, there’s no chance for that.

CDPR has succumed to wanting to create a game that can be all things to all people, and as always the result is a game that's mediocre at everything.

Mediocre or worse.

That’s really the big takeaway with this game.

What came out of the cauldron after pouring in heavily some FPS, heavily some story and a pinch of RPG, is bad RPG, a mediocre shooter and passable storyteller.

Because FPS and RPG is like mixing vinegar and orange juice and due to those two tastes constantly being at odds with each other, even the storyteller component suffers. And you can’t fix the taste without pouring in enough of either to or overpower the taste of either, or enough water to blabd the mix off of any taste.

But here I notice that, this just me turning the clock back to before 2018 E3. So yeah, that’s that.

 

[MagnarofThenn]

Oh shit, wow.

People have also reported that if you’re too good, the opposition will catch you via teleporting right behind you.

Sometimes I have to wonder do all the developers of games actually play games themselves at all.

This actually happens in a lot of racing games, the term for it is rubber-banding. The AI competition will always try to stick close to you to get the player a sense of being in a tight race, if you go too far ahead they will catch up, and if they get too far in front of you they will slow down.

 

[Suhiira]

What came out of the cauldron after pouring in heavily some FPS, heavily some story and a pinch of RPG, is bad RPG, a mediocre shooter and passable storyteller.

You may have (inadvertently?) made a very astute observation here.

These days most people seem to think "storytelling" = RPG.

Look at any modern "RPG" and what do you see?
Character development ... minimal.
Character agency, i.e. character stats/skills/knowledge influence out comes ... minimal.
Multiple options to resolve quests; shoot/melee, maybe stealth, maybe one other option if you have the appropriate stat/skill level ... minimal.

But does the game have anything more then a bare bones story ... it's an RPG !!!

I was very pleased to see CDPR remove "RPG" from the current description of CP2077. Because to claim it is would be blatantly false.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

These days most people seem to think "storytelling" = RPG.

Look at any modern "RPG" and what do you see?
Character development ... minimal.
Character agency, i.e. character stats/skills/knowledge influence out comes ... minimal.
Multiple options to resolve quests; shoot/melee, maybe stealth, maybe one other option if you have the appropriate stat/skill level ... minimal.

But does the game have anything more then a bare bones story ... it's an RPG !!!

It’s true. Story, story, story. RPG gameplay falls somewhere in the darker side of the grey zone where most people don’t really like it because an FPS has to properly be an FPS, elsewise it’s clumsy and bad (even what very little CP does here, has been scorned). Abstraction of character ability is a nono.

And by that token, is it not reasonable to not expect those ideals to change in any tangible measure as the game gets its patches, additions and possible sequels, considering that if the game was in better technical shape (including having some sort of AI) and if it had ”wallrunning” and if it had ”customizable apartments” and if it had ”more potent romances and nudity” well over half of the complaints would’ve never been made? (Rethorical question.)

Also, as a bonus, it kinda amazes me that barber shops and tattoo parlors and such are considered ”RPG elements” by a portion of the market. That’s how confusing things have been made.

Anyways... I’m probably going to see the sidemissions through because why not, and then looking for what happens next, and I have my fingers crossed, but at this point I’m not sure if there’s really anything to look forward to. The game is done, and ”more of the same” content DLCs with new ”stories” to tell don’t really do anything for ne.

 

[eidius]

I could not get into this game as an RPG.

There was no firm role like Geralt to settle on as a new player and V was a complete basket case of various moods and tones.
Depending on your life choices one moment you sound like a snarky corpo person who once did a summer internship at a corp one time so they know whats what before switching back to streetkid personality to become "somebody" in Night City.
If you try to go your own way then you realize how empty and souless the world is. Its like peaking behind a movie set rather than watching the movie.
There are a lot of glaring missing content that just breaks your immersion when you compare the first few hours of the game and the rest of it. Like the ripper doc animated body enhancement or brain dances introduced to you before these features just... disappear. And of course all the performance issues that don't help the situation.

 

[Notserious80]

It’s true. Story, story, story. RPG gameplay falls somewhere in the darker side of the grey zone where most people don’t really like it because an FPS has to properly be an FPS, elsewise it’s clumsy and bad (even what very little CP does here, has been scorned). Abstraction of character ability is a nono.

And by that token, is it not reasonable to not expect those ideals to change in any tangible measure as the game gets its patches, additions and possible sequels, considering that if the game was in better technical shape (including having some sort of AI) and if it had ”wallrunning” and if it had ”customizable apartments” and if it had ”more potent romances and nudity” well over half of the complaints would’ve never been made? (Rethorical question.)

Also, as a bonus, it kinda amazes me that barber shops and tattoo parlors and such are considered ”RPG elements” by a portion of the market. That’s how confusing things have been made.

Anyways... I’m probably going to see the sidemissions through because why not, and then looking for what happens next, and I have my fingers crossed, but at this point I’m not sure if there’s really anything to look forward to. The game is done, and ”more of the same” content DLCs with new ”stories” to tell don’t really do anything for ne.

Wholeheartedly agree. Theres some "RPG" elements in the game but there few and far between. Liked the skill with wepons and differance it made. would have loved alot more like that. Dont miss out on the sidequests as i find them better then the main story ones. Im kinda in the same seat, waiting too hear if its worth sticking around or if i should just go back to other games..

 

[Salfin]

Very interesting to read your day by day experiences as you move through the game.

A lot of people feel there are problems with the systems but they're articulated here.

It feels very uneven