Kofe's Improvements Thread

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't think weapons handling will be sufficient in this case. There needs to be more and more elements, that influence progression. Armor, implants, resistances, regeneration and so on. We're entering territory of complete revamping of the combat system.

Yeah, the key word is ”most of”. There is some balancing to be done, for sure. But the core of stats affecting handling in a tangible way stands. The challenge need not be equal between the two polars, and in a way calling it ”difficulty setting” instead of ”gameplay-/combat preference” is a bit
misnomer as the enemies are the same either way.

It makes sense, sure, but I feel there needs to be something that you can rely on outside of chance and direct combat as well. More complex software has a chance to fail, simpler things are reliable, for example. Especially considering the game frequently forces you into a specific gameplay.

I suppose there could be a sliding scale that diminishes the the RNG eventually, like common hacks at skill level of commons at skill level 7, uncommons at 14, rares at 20, but epics and legendaries always rely on some chance. Or, alternatively, you can spend extra ram (if you have) to boost your chances. And additional systems where the closer you are, the better your chances.
(And of course, the easier the difficulty setting, the easier it is to succeed.)

But I don’t think too lenient systems really serve the purpose.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Further improvements could be NOT SHOWING the sidequest/gig/assault etc. markers on the map by default and only show them when appropriate. E.g. when the player is close enough (though, proximity only for those pesky cop missions).

And to go further from that, the gigs and sidemissions SHOULD NOT be automatically added to the list of tasks via a phonecall from a total stranger adressing him/herself as a "local fixer". The player should be required to find and contact the fixer by himself and ask for a job. And if legible to getting one, getting to choose from a randomly selected few (let's say 1-3) in the area.

And even better, if the fixer in question doesn't always have a job to offer. "Sorry V, nothing to offer right now. Check back tomorrow or the day after" (and the time is held on, too).
And even even better, if the player has to show the fixer he's the one to whom the jobs can be trusted (bribery is a good way to handle this, street cred already does some of that...). "I don't know you well enough to trust you with a job. Go bother some lowlier fixers that tackle with petty shit and streetcorner squabbles more suited to you."

Furthermore, if the player chooses to "unfollow" or delay the gig for (let's say) 10 minutes, and not do it immediately after getting it, it should be forfeit (forever). The fixer might then call and say a more trustworthy edgerunner is on the job and you just blew it up good (-x streetcred).

In a sense, building a business relationship with the different fixers.

This makes it so that the illusion of the player simply "emptying the map" off of content is diminished. And adds a bit more tension to choosing and doing gigs.

 

[lelxrv]

Further improvements could be NOT SHOWING the sidequest/gig/assault etc. markers on the map by default and only show them when appropriate. E.g. when the player is close enough (though, proximity only for those pesky cop missions).

And to go further from that, the gigs and sidemissions SHOULD NOT be automatically added to the list of tasks via a phonecall from a total stranger adressing him/herself as a "local fixer". The player should be required to find and contact the fixer by himself and ask for a job. And if legible to getting one, getting to choose from a randomly selected few (let's say 1-3) in the area.

And even better, if the fixer in question doesn't always have a job to offer. "Sorry V, nothing to offer right now. Check back tomorrow or the day after" (and the time is held on, too).
And even even better, if the player has to show the fixer he's the one to whom the jobs can be trusted (bribery is a good way to handle this, street cred already does some of that...). "I don't know you well enough to trust you with a job. Go bother some lowlier fixers that tackle with petty shit and streetcorner squabbles more suited to you."

Furthermore, if the player chooses to "unfollow" or delay the gig for (let's say) 10 minutes, and not do it immediately after getting it, it should be forfeit (forever). The fixer might then call and say a more trustworthy edgerunner is on the job and you just blew it up good (-x streetcred).

In a sense, building a business relationship with the different fixers.

This makes it so that the illusion of the player simply "emptying the map" off of content is diminished. And adds a bit more tension to choosing and doing gigs.

There might be a problem with tracking progress. Where should you go to get the next mission? Did you clear the area? Were you there at all? Walking around aimlessly without knowing where you might get the next mission will be too frustrating.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

There might be a problem with tracking progress. Where should you go to get the next mission? Did you clear the area? Were you there at all? Walking around aimlessly without knowing where you might get the next mission will be too frustrating.

Well, obviously there needs to be clues as to where you might find a fixer. That's one.

As for keeping track... I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. The missionlog is there. You have the "local fixer" in the contact list of your phone (if you don't, you know something's missing). The player doesn't need to be explicitly told if an area is empty or not. Strolling there for a moment not finding anything and getting an appropriate response from the fixer whose missions are depleted should be enough. And even if it is not empty, and the player still can't find anything anymore... so what? The content doesn't need to be spoonfed to the player. He'll tackle the missions he finds. The player has some responsibilities in how the game progresses. As of now, there's not much more responsibilities for the player than following a yellow dotted line to its destination and killing everbody.

How would you handle this, or do you consider it not an issue? (Honest question)

 

[lelxrv]

Well, obviously there needs to be clues as to where you might find a fixer. That's one.

As for keeping track... I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. The missionlog is there. You have the "local fixer" in the contact list of your phone (if you don't, you know something's missing). The player doesn't need to be explicitly told if an area is empty or not. Strolling there for a moment not finding anything and getting an appropriate response from the fixer whose missions are depleted should be enough. And even if it is not empty, and the player still can't find anything anymore... so what? The content doesn't need to be spoonfed to the player. He'll tackle the missions he finds. The player has some responsibilities in how the game progresses. As of now, there's not much more responsibilities for the player than following a yellow dotted line to its destination and killing everbody.

How would you handle this, or do you consider it not an issue? (Honest question)

I'm referring to this:

Further improvements could be NOT SHOWING the sidequest/gig/assault etc. markers on the map by default and only show them when appropriate. E.g. when the player is close enough (though, proximity only for those pesky cop missions).

For example, Skyrim doesn't reveal everything at once. You get new points of interest by traveling and getting in close proximity to something. Why it works in Skyrim is because we discover the map on our feet and If we find something, it stays there till we decide to tackle it. But you also say, if I got you right, that things should have expiration date or there isn't the right time for something to happen. If it's just for fixers having contracts for you - fine. But the rest? Even if the rest is permanent, I'm not sure Night City is designed for this kind of "discover on your own" type of exploration.

I don't like this game design appraoch when you go from a marker to a marker and then follow the line from one spoon-fed objective to another, but I don't think we can just discard it. The world isn't designed for manual exploration in style of Gothic, Skyrim or whatever.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't like this game design appraoch when you go from a marker to a marker and then follow the line from one spoon-fed objective to another, but I don't think we can just discard it. The world isn't designed for manual exploration

Well, I don’t see it that way. I don’t really know how the world is or isn’t built for this or that kind of exploration.

But as it is there is no exploration. And the way it works is a result of lazyminded design which leads to lazyminded gameplay.

I can sort of see how they might have done it the way it is because they might insist that all of their storytelling elements are readily available and highlighted so no player can say ”I didn’t find it”. But it does make the gameplay feel degenerate in that, as said, you simply choose and follow a marker. It also undermines their worldbuilding, since the player is rarely required to pay attention to it.

 

[lelxrv]

Well, I don’t see it that way. I don’t really know how the world is or isn’t built for this or that kind of exploration.

But as it is there is no exploration. And the way it works is a result of lazyminded design which leads to lazyminded gameplay.

I can sort of see how they might have done it the way it is because they might insist that all of their storytelling elements are readily available and highlighted so no player can say ”I didn’t find it”. But it does make the gameplay feel degenerate in that, as said, you simply choose and follow a marker. It also undermines their worldbuilding, since the player is rarely required to pay attention to it.

The world needs to be interactive and paced well enough for manual exploration. In Gothic there are things to do almost behind every rock. The same goes for Skyrim. You walk over a hill and there's some village, city, cave, some kind of monster summit, hidden treasure or whatever. The world of CP77 resembles GTA majority of the time. It's dead and empty, you can traverse large distances and most of the time there's nothing to do. It works the best when you just go through markers because it was designed that way.

I'm not arguing if it's good or bad. I personally dislike this trend in modern gaming. I'm just saying it's one of the things about CP77 that can't be fixed. Though I personally agree that your ideas about relationship with fixers would be an improvement.

 

[Vincent_Rada]

I just want an option to get dots off the screen for quest markers and clothing shops and stuff until im within 100 meters or so. I know where to go, theres a map, Mini map shows whether i need to go up or down.

And put a North marker on mini map in The form of an arrow or a big N. Corporate gods willing theyll get it done.

 

[A_GRIM_OBLIVION]

A more defined ability to toggle map items on and off would be an improvement... Once you've discovered most of the map even the existing toggle-able layout make the map a bit of a mess.

Personally, seeing your character has cranial enhancements and an optical implant, a toggle-able heads up display that overlays your vision in real-time would seem more immersive. Quest objectives, the phone and text directory, pretty much most of the things that you currently have to go to a separate page for now not including the stuff you'd obviously have to stop to do would be an improvement.