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Last Wish (Book)

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#41
While I can see why Geralt would love the Yennefer of the last book, I can't really tell you why would he fall in love with her after the Last Wish, and definetly why would he ever look in her direction after the Shard of Ice ( read it and you will now what I mean).

Besides the fact that he seems very attracted to her sexually from the start all that I can think off is how his history influenced him:
-He was left to the witchers as a child by his sorceress mother so it makes sense to fall in love with a sorceress that mistreats him.
-He was raised in a pretty abusive system, in which 7-8 out of 10 children died, so maybe he associates abuse with love .
-He is pretty unhappy with his life and his job, maybe he loves the challenge.
How much these factors contribuited is anyone guess.

Honestly I can' t think of anything else. Maybe he just loved that kind of woman. Or maybe he knows(hopes) she can improve.
 
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Deemonef

User
#42
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10884951 said:
major spoilers alert
After Istredd they met at the Belletyn festival, just when Yen was about to bang some random dude (Geralt was turned down by some girl). They only spend one night together. We don't see them together in other instances until the novels to see how much they changed, quite the opposite we only see Geralt alone or with other women. Going by Yen history she continues doing what she usually does. It is unclear how much time they spend together, but it is implied they have a cycle of getting back together for a couple of months and then separating for years. So not changed and not a healthy relationship.

Geralt and Yen don't met in the first novel. They haven't even seen each other for 4 years, not even when they both thought for a time the other one was dead( Yen after Sodden, Geralt when he finds Ciri after Cintra) and then found out that they lived. Yen didn't tell Geralt that she was blind, Geralt preferred to call Triss for help with Ciri. So in the first novel the relation is not only unhealthy, is dying.

They met in the second book because of Ciri, they kiss and make up but after a day Thanedd coup happens. Yen is taken prisoner, a wounded Geralt is left convinced she betrayed him and Ciri- not a healthy relation or a relation at all.

They don't met at all in the third novel, but after Yen escapes she doesn't try to find Geralt. She is convinced that Geralt won't find Ciri and that the only thing he will accomplish is to get himself killed. The only thing she accomplishes by herself is to get herself captured and tortured (she doesn't give up Gelat or Ciri under torture). Meanwhile poor incompetent Geralt still thinks she betrayed them. Once again, the opposite of a healthy relation.

In the last novel, after some nice 3 months spent with Fringilla (3 times more than all the time Geralt and Yen spent together in all the novels), Geralt finds out that Yen didn't betrayed him and where she is kept so he rescues her, and Ciri. They spent approximately a month together punishing the people that wronged Ciri, and after that Yen and Ciri met with the Lodge while Geralt gets himself killed by a peasant. Yen tries to save him but she dies also in the process. And this concludes their relationship. More than 27 years of pain and torment for a one month of happiness (I hope). Yeah... maybe I am not romantic enough, to me this is a train wreck.
That's what I meant. The realtionship is not toxic at all it helps the two of them. They met one time in the last short story and after that in the 2nd novel, as you said. But before there war contact through letter and through Ciri. Geralt "sent" Ciri to her, which made a big change in Yennefer, as I said before Ciri was one kind of a trigger for Geralt's and Yennefer's relationship. You hear how Yennefer talks about Geralt in the 1st and second novel. And they finallly met in the second one and finally come together the way they wanted it (first time saying "I love you" and stuff). And yes, as you said, they parted cause of the things that happend on Thanedd. Sure Yennefer don't search for Geralt she searches for Ciri to rescue her from the lodge. And you are also right, Geralt spent time with Fringilla, but only "sexy time" no love. That's why he called her the name Yennefer in the highest part of climaxes ;)
And after all of that they came together... just to die. This is no real happy end, and Sapkwoski never wanted to do such a thing. But in the end Yennefer and geralt are happy and together in the afterlive/another world. Just the two of them. And this is beautiful. So I don't see any toxicity at the end. Cause they changed for the good to become better persons, over a long time, but it happend. :)

Pythro;n10887141 said:
Having read all these replies (expect for big spoiler ones) I am glad I’m not the only one who feels this way about Yen. I mean I know in real life there are toxic relationships, but still I don’t understand why anyone would want to be part of that. It just seems unhealthy and stressful. But I would seriously like a logical explanation why the author (sorry trouble remembering his name) had Geralt basically fall head over heals for Yen. Was it the Violet eyes? Raven Hair? Lilac and Goosbereis? The fact that she took control of his mind and made him do her dirty work? If someone put a love spell on me than so be it, I can look past that. But to manipulate someone and have them do your dirty work and then still treat them like crap is just unforgivable to me.

Also about Yen haveing been a hunchback, is her appearance an illusion or did she fix herself with magic?

I think the best choice for Geralt would have been that dream woman (forgot her name) that you can even have an “relationship” with. Shame. Or maybe no one.
Maybe you missed the last time I answered your question so I quote myself ;)
Deemonef;n10879481 said:
Geralt saw how she was before and what she became. He saw in his live many young women in a world which is not good to women (and men) beautiful girls are used, ugly girls are bullied and worse. No material for a marriage, thrown away etc. But Yennefer got over this became a sorceress. She helped Jaskier; sure to capture the D'Jinni, but she healed him. She could have held him in her bedroom without helping him. She could used the last wish for so many things, but she wanted to discharge Geralt from the things he did under her spell. She wanted to take him out of the danger zone when the D'Jinni attacked. And next to all of this Yennefer was "simply" a different kind of woman, Geralt met before. A kind he learned to love very fast.
Geralt is not the typical hero of a story and Yennefer (have to be) not the typical "girl" for the hero. A real women who doesn't wait or live for her hero. A own character.

And with every story you will understand the relationship with Geralt and Yennefer more. Till the novels it will be rough but while the second novel you will see that both find her way to each other. Overcame what they were and finally able to be together.

So, it was no magic or spell from Yennefer that Geralt will love her (this is Triss' way of playing this game ;) )
And as ooodrin and sv3762 said. There is a difference between the books and games and in the game there is no really wrong and right desiscion cause this is a RPG.
And you can do whatever you want in the games as the player who controls the Fanfic Geralt.
 
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Pythro

User
#43
Deemonef. I did read that. But after all replies I have read about how Yen still basically abuses him and what not, I still don’t see why he loves her. Just confuses me. No matter if Geralt was given to Witcher by his sorceress mother. I’m still gonna keep reading and playing the game though.
 
#44
Pythro;n10890201 said:
I’m still gonna keep reading and playing the game though.
That is for the best. I needed to take a break from both after reading the second novel, and even now I skip all Ciri scenes since I cannot stand her anymore after reading the books, but I still don't regret finishing the saga. And don't worry, Yen does get better in the later books. And while their relathionship is important, the books are a lot more than that.

 

Deemonef

User
#45
Pythro;n10890201 said:
Deemonef. I did read that. But after all replies I have read about how Yen still basically abuses him and what not, I still don’t see why he loves her. Just confuses me. No matter if Geralt was given to Witcher by his sorceress mother. I’m still gonna keep reading and playing the game though.
That's good. Keep reading for yourself, this should be the best. Geralt just fell i love with her (maybe this is the better way to tell it) Love at first sight and it gets better and better. Love is strange sometimes ;)
 

Pythro

User
#46
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10890241 said:
That is for the best. I needed to take a break from both after reading the second novel, and even now I skip all Ciri scenes since I cannot stand her anymore after reading the books, but I still don't regret finishing the saga. And don't worry, Yen does get better in the later books. And while their relathionship is important, the books are a lot more than that.
you are upsetting me with the Ciri talk. I like Ciri, I don’t want to hate her. It seems the author has a thing for arrogant and verbally abusive women. Shame because I don’t. Which is probably why I don’t really care much for Yen.

 

Deemonef

User
#47
Pythro;n10904091 said:
you are upsetting me with the Ciri talk. I like Ciri, I don’t want to hate her. It seems the author has a thing for arrogant and verbally abusive women. Shame because I don’t. Which is probably why I don’t really care much for Yen.
No worries. Ciri isn't that arrogant or verbally abusive. Just read and find out for yourself :)
 

Razrback16

User
#48
Ya I didn't mind Ciri in the books at all - actually enjoyed reading her sections with Geralt as she's a kid and grows up - they're pretty emotionally fun to read about, IMO. Now there's a section in the later books that I did not enjoy reading about Ciri that goes on for about half a book or so (not going to mention specifics so as not to spoil anything for folks still reading through the books, but I suspect those who've read them will know what I'm talking about).
 
#49
Pythro;n10904091 said:
you are upsetting me with the Ciri talk. I like Ciri, I don’t want to hate her. It seems the author has a thing for arrogant and verbally abusive women. Shame because I don’t. Which is probably why I don’t really care much for Yen.
I wish she was just arrogant and verbally abusive. For me, and any penal system in the world, or any moral system, what Ciri does is a lot worse than anything that Yen is described to do in the books or movie. I don't think that Yen is a particular good person, but I also I don't think she is Evil
(also the writer describes her in an interview as a monster, evil incarnate. Yen is not those things
). Ciri is evil to me. To other readers she isn't, she just does evil things. Of course you will decide what what Ciri is for you.
 
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#50
Razrback16;n10904581 said:
Ya I didn't mind Ciri in the books at all - actually enjoyed reading her sections with Geralt as she's a kid and grows up - they're pretty emotionally fun to read about, IMO. Now there's a section in the later books that I did not enjoy reading about Ciri that goes on for about half a book or so (not going to mention specifics so as not to spoil anything for folks still reading through the books, but I suspect those who've read them will know what I'm talking about).
There was an entire discution about that part and the lack of consequences in this thread: Question regarding Ciri and Geralt. I am afraid that I already derailed this thread with my ( justified) dislike of Ciri.
 

Riven-Twain

Moderator
#51
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10905071 said:
I am afraid that I already derailed this thread with my ( justified) dislike of Ciri.
Yes, the thread has rather strayed from the topic of Yen. However, since people seem to be enjoying, or at least engaged in this discussion, perhaps we can make an exception.
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10905061 said:
Ciri is evil to me.
Your remark intrigues me. It makes me wonder if, indeed, she was evil, or if she merely struggled with -- and often lost to -- the evil within herself, as many flawed heroes and heroines do? From the game, it would seem the REDs felt she could overcome her dark side, with time.

For that matter, what proportion of evil is within Yen, which has made her so repellent to some people? I've always found it significant that Geralt was able to perceive within her something worthy of compassion, judging from his wish.
 

ummagoomba

User
#52
Pythro;n10877951 said:
Now my first time playing Witcher 3 I was looking forward to finally seeing Yen. However the more interaction I had with her in the game the more annoyed with her I got. First Ii felt she treated Geralt like a dog, and Geralt in the book even says this although he is cut off at the end by Nenneke. And I feel like she doesn't care about the consequences of her actions. I was hoping by reading the books (although I have only read Last Wish so far) that I would understand an like her. However the last wish story has kind of ruined that so far. She clearly knows she has power and uses it the wrong way to get what she wants and doesn't really care, that is a characteristic that bothers me with characters.... I am hoping by reading more of the books I can come to like Yen....
Like most stories, the characters will develop but, you will also learn more about why they are the way they are, their motivations etc. Yen is a hard woman to like, especially at the beginning but keep reading. I am not going to say you will like her more but, you will at least understand her better. The same also applies to Triss.
 

ooodrin

User
#53
Riven-Twain;n10905271 said:
For that matter, what proportion of evil is within Yen,
It seems you are completely out of the loop on this subject - team of elite mathematicians have already investigated this issue and made calculations with pinpoint accuracy:
Correct answer is 2/3 (66,6%).
:pride2:
 
#55
Riven-Twain;n10905271 said:
[

Your remark intrigues me. It makes me wonder if, indeed, she was evil, or if she merely struggled with -- and often lost to -- the evil within herself, as many flawed heroes and heroines do? From the game, it would seem the REDs felt she could overcome her dark side, with time.

For that matter, what proportion of evil is within Yen, which has made her so repellent to some people? I've always found it significant that Geralt was able to perceive within her something worthy of compassion, judging from his wish.
I don't consider Ciri to be a heroine, at most she is an anti-hero. The thing is that I struggle to find other anti-heroes
that systematicaly and with premeditation kill innocent people for fun or that watch them fascinated while they bleed to death. The closest example I can think of is the Prince of Thorns from the Broken Empire Trilogy, and he was influenced by his brother spirit.
I would love other examples. Also when they do something wrong, they usualy regret it, and make amends if possible
( like Zoltan or Milva btw)
. How can Ciri overcome her darkside when she doesn't even regrets what she did and she still considers
the Rat to be victims that were murdered instead of criminals that received their due?
How evil is Yennefer is hard to say. I don't think she kills for pleasure like other people but I also don't think that she really values other people lives. For example risking Geralts life in the Last Wish or turning a wagon of milita men in toads. Obviously is more than her sarcasm that makes her pretty universally despised.
Like in the case of Ciri, I fail to remember instances were she helped people other than Ciri and Geralt or for selfless reasons. Dandelion was Geralts friend and her mission. Maybe the pregnant widow in Skellige, but even then she was trying to get Crach's support in finding Ciri
. But for lack of damning evidence I consider Yen to be not god but also not evil, unlike Ciri.
Sorry for my many spoilers tags!
 
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#56
ooodrin;n10905531 said:
It seems you are completely out of the loop on this subject - team of elite mathematicians have already investigated this issue and made calculations with pinpoint accuracy:
Correct answer is 2/3 (66,6%).
:pride2:
Which part is that? the good or evil one? Also what results have Triss and Ciri?
 

ooodrin

User
#57
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10905691 said:
Which part is that? the good or evil one?
The eeevil one:
1) she wears a pentagram around her neck and
2) her date of birth is May 1st 1173. (5+1+1+1+7+3=18; 6+6+6=18)
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10905691 said:
Also what results have Triss and Ciri?
Unfortunately, investigators hit major roadblocks on both counts:
It was not possible to make such estimation for Triss, it's a well-known fact that her ilk have no soul. Her in-game portrayal (ranging from "kind of a predator" to "sexy friend with benefits" and finally to "excessive sugarbunny") makes it ever more confusing.
Ciri being NRC (non-romanceable character) precluded this inquiry due to apparent lack of any interest to public.
 
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Deemonef

User
#58
Dan_Florian_Eremia;n10905641 said:
Like in the case of Ciri, I fail to remember instances were she helped people other than Ciri and Geralt or for selfless reasons. Dandelion was Geralts friend and her mission. Maybe the pregnant widow in Skellige, but even then she was trying to get Crach's support in finding Ciri
. But for lack of damning evidence I consider Yen to be not god but also not evil, unlike Ciri.
Sorry for my many spoilers tags!
And let's not forget the whole Giancardi family, who Yennefer saved from a pogrom ;)
And kills for plesaure is... well... hard to say. She runred those people in animals to rescue a dragon who was protecting a baby dragon. She killed in defense and not purpose. Her "evil" is more the way she act fro most people (later) and not her inner self.
And Sapkowski show us a lot people where it is hard to say: Evil or good :)

But ooodrin is right, this pentagram on her neck.... and I remember that she sweared in one book. And swearing is the speech of the devil.
 
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#59
Deemonef;n10906031 said:
And let's not forget the whole Giancardi family, who Yennefer saved from a pogrom ;)
And kills for plesaure is... well... hard to say. She runred those people in animals to rescue a dragon who was protecting a baby dragon. She killed in defense and not purpose. Her "evil" is more the way she act fro most people (later) and not her inner self.
And Sapkowski show us a lot people where it is hard to say: Evil or good :)

But ooodrin is right, this pentagram on her neck.... and I remember that she sweared in one book. And swearing is the speech of the devil.
You can say that the militia were only defending their town from a dragon. But anyway I agree with you, Yen is really gray. I think that intentionally Sapkowski has put the family all over the good-evil specter: Geralt good with some bad aspects, Yen neutral, Ciri evil with some good aspects.
 

Pythro

User
#60
Sorry guys I really have no more to say. Until I have read more of the books. Though reading the comments is enjoyable. I will say (probably have already) that Ciri in game isn’t that bad. But also from what I have read about her in the books from you guys, maybe it’s kind of like how children today go through their teenage years ( not sure how old she is in the books). Kids do crazy and even unforgivable things and may not even feel bad about it. But hopefully as they get older they understand. That’s how I see it until I actually read it and see.