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Legalizing prostitution (article on my blog)

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G

GuyNwah

Ex-moderator
#61
Nov 3, 2012
freakie1one said:
Hmm, I watched a documentary on prostitution a while back (for the life of me can't remember the name of it) and there are many "high-end" (no pun intended) prostitutes that are not forced into it. They make good money, they enjoy the job and they are treated with respect from their clientele. Some of the men in the documentary were just seeking companionship and their visits with the prostitute involved nothing sexual. I believe some people have this stigma about prostitution that it always involves women being taken advantage of by dirty, sex-crazed men. I don't believe these women were "selling their bodies". They were selling their time and companionship, but their body was never owned by anyone else (which is often the case in human trafficking).
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I don't believe it, not for an instant. Most prostitutes, both worldwide and in the US, are forced into the "profession" many years before the age of consent, usually at age 12 to 14. Ninety percent have been battered by a family member; eighty-five percent are victims of incest. Even so-called "high-end" call girls are battered to the point of clinical injury twice a year, on average.

Trying to claim that prostitution is something that it is not, by singling out a few sensational examples, is irresponsible journalism. Repeating falsehoods on a public forum just compounds this disregard for the truth.

Prostitution is not a Choice, Soroptimist International of the Americas (2007; rev. 2010)
 
Garrison72

Garrison72

Mentor
#62
Nov 3, 2012
With some women, their history may inculcate or force them into the profession, with others it is without a doubt a deliberate choice on their part. Right or wrong, that's the way it is.
 
F

freakie1one

Forum veteran
#63
Nov 3, 2012
GuyN said:
I don't believe it, not for an instant. Most prostitutes, both worldwide and in the US, are forced into the "profession" many years before the age of consent, usually at age 12 to 14. Ninety percent have been battered by a family member; eighty-five percent are victims of incest. Even so-called "high-end" call girls are battered to the point of clinical injury twice a year, on average.Trying to claim that prostitution is something that it is not, by singling out a few sensational examples, is irresponsible journalism. Repeating falsehoods on a public forum just compounds this disregard for the truth.Prostitution is not a Choice, Soroptimist International of the Americas (2007; rev. 2010)
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@Guy N'wah:

Firstly, thanks for the interesting and informative read. I'm not disillusioned about prostitution. I was not arguing that the majority of prostitution is like I stated above. I was simply pointing out that there is also a different side to it (even though I know this side is the minority and not the majority).

Admittedly, I have not done much research on this topic. In countries that have legalized it, like New Zealand for example, have things improved? I would assume that removing the criminal element from it would promote a healthier customer/client relationship. When something is illegal, and run mostly by criminals and criminal organizations, the numbers quoted in that article you linked are not surprising. (Though I doubt that the surveys accurately represent real world numbers - surveys rarely do, especially pertaining to this specific subject matter. How do you get a large enough percentage of prostitutes to participate in a survey for it to accurately represent real world numbers?) If a person thinks that they can get away with something, with no repercussions, they will do things they would normally not do. The internet is a great example of this. The main problem with decriminalizing prostitution is: how to remove the criminal element when it's already so strongly entwined.

EDIT: I was still reading through the article Guy posted and I see that the abolitionist method seems to be working well in Sweden. I suppose whether or not the abolitionist method would work in other countries depends on how corrupt the government is. If criminal organizations hold significant sway over the government and its officials then this method would not be nearly as effective.

Trying to claim that prostitution is something that it is not, by singling out a few sensational examples, is irresponsible journalism.
Click to expand...
I found this statement to be rather ironic when the article linked is full of sensational examples.

Also, this is only my personal opinion, but I do not think it should be illegal for a person to sell their personal time or companionship; as long as the person is in control of what activities occur and with whom they engage said activities.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#64
Nov 3, 2012
It would be great that prostitution can be legalited, but it would be greater that is could be erased. Sadly, I must to agree with @Veleda.

If prostitution were legalized the solution had been applied long ago. But today be legal means taxes and licenses which affect the final price. And being a product without warranty or right to return few users would accept paying a high price for a few minutes.The service marginal prostitution market would become black market. more difficult to detect as pimps and prostitutes will become much more discreet.

Legalizing Prostitution ... who would ensure consumer rights? No, there will always be the housewife who need money for their children punctually and decide to exercise temporarily or sporadically prostitution as a last resort. Same for students.

And what about the prostitution of high standing? Prostitutes will issue invoices to their customers? Sign these judges, doctors, politicians, artists, a document proving his act of payment for sex? Anonymity is guaranteed for both client and prostitute they can do business.

While there exist economic poverty and educational business with human weaknesses (sex, drugs, gambling, alcohol). The solution is as complex as complex the world of prostitution. Education, social welfare, decent work, reconciliation of work and family life ... many small detailsthat when one fails it paves the way to prostitution.

PS
Good work KoP
OV
Si legalizar la prostitucion fuer la solucion hace tiempo que se hubiera aplicado. Pero hoy en dia ser legal significa pagar impuestos y licencias las cuales repercuten en el precio final. Y al ser un producto sin garant
 
O

Oloroar

Rookie
#65
Nov 3, 2012
I don't know the differences in backgrounds of prostitutes in countries where it is legal versus countries where it's not. However, I can tell you one thing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7927461.stm
http://www.3news.co.nz/UN-praises-NZs-prostitution-laws/tabid/423/articleID/273855/Default.aspx

Things are much better in New Zealand after it was legalized. I could find more articles and studies that conclude the same, but I have study to do. Instead, I'll leave you with the fallowing quote from the above articles:

"New Zealand's decriminalisation of prostitution has been praised in a new United Nations report which suggests Pacific and Asian countries should follow its lead."
 
F

freakie1one

Forum veteran
#66
Nov 3, 2012
Thanks for the links, Dragon'sDream. The people in those articles seem to be similar to the women (and men) in the documentary I watched. The people were not victims and they took offense at being called such.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#67
Nov 3, 2012
Wichat said:
It would be great that prostitution can be legalited, but it would be greater that is could be erased. Sadly, I must to agree with @Veleda.

If prostitution were legalized the solution had been applied long ago. But today be legal means taxes and licenses which affect the final price. And being a product without warranty or right to return few users would accept paying a high price for a few minutes.The service marginal prostitution market would become black market. more difficult to detect as pimps and prostitutes will become much more discreet.

Legalizing Prostitution ... who would ensure consumer rights? No, there will always be the housewife who need money for their children punctually and decide to exercise temporarily or sporadically prostitution as a last resort. Same for students.
Click to expand...
I think it's important to differentiate between two different aspects of "legalising". One is de-criminalising, the other is regulating. The points you're raising, and that Veleda raised, may be valid regarding regulating prostitution, but they aren't necessary for de-criminalising it. De-criminalising reduces the power that others, whether it's corrupt police/politicians, the pimps, the traffickers, the drug-dealers, have over the sex workers themselves, because the sex workers no longer have to exist in a criminal environment, and because they are in a better position to complain and take action if there's a problem. Regulation may or may not be required, and is usually primarily aimed at health-related matters, not consumer rights.

To use your analogy, a housewife who chooses to go into this temporarily may earn our moral disapproval, but from a legal perspective, it should be no different to her deciding to make some extra money by baking cakes and selling them to her friends and neighbours. We don't get caught up in debates about consumer rights and warranties for bake sales.

And regarding "warranty and right of return", yes, it may be consumed quickly, but so is a bottle of champagne in a bar. Again, the world manages to handle the consumer rights on that without worrying too much about it.

Quick sidetrack question, mainly for Canadians. Did any of you watch Da Vinci's Inquest? This issue was a running storyline throughout all seasons, and I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was partly based on real events in Vancouver. Can anyone confirm?
 
O

Oloroar

Rookie
#68
Nov 3, 2012
That's a good point, dragonbird. I forgot to mention that most of the regulations in New Zealand are aimed at health and safety. Prostitutes certainly do not need to issue invoices.

In terms of consumer rights and anonymity, the clients are expected to look out for themselves (eg - research the women before hand, use a different cellphone for these purposes, use a fake name etc...). The government does not tax individual girls acting in private, only businesses such as massage parlors and brothels.


Some of you are indeed confusing legalization with over-regulation. One does not require the other.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#69
Nov 3, 2012
dragonbird said:
I think it's important to differentiate between two different aspects of "legalising". One is de-criminalising, the other is regulating. The points you're raising, and that Veleda raised, may be valid regarding regulating prostitution, but they aren't necessary for de-criminalising it. De-criminalising reduces the power that others, whether it's corrupt police/politicians, the pimps, the traffickers, the drug-dealers, have over the sex workers themselves, because the sex workers no longer have to exist in a criminal environment, and because they are in a better position to complain and take action if there's a problem. Regulation may or may not be required, and is usually primarily aimed at health-related matters, not consumer rights.

To use your analogy, a housewife who chooses to go into this temporarily may earn our moral disapproval, but from a legal perspective, it should be no different to her deciding to make some extra money by baking cakes and selling them to her friends and neighbours. We don't get caught up in debates about consumer rights and warranties for bake sales.

And regarding "warranty and right of return", yes, it may be consumed quickly, but so is a bottle of champagne in a bar. Again, the world manages to handle the consumer rights on that without worrying too much about it.

Quick sidetrack question, mainly for Canadians. Did any of you watch Da Vinci's Inquest? This issue was a running storyline throughout all seasons, and I vaguely recall reading somewhere that it was partly based on real events in Vancouver. Can anyone confirm?
Click to expand...
No, we'll not agree for just one reason: penal codes are different in each country. To cooke for sale is penalized. And so... Surely there're a lot of lucrative shares which are penalitzed in a country and perfectly legal in others, so generalizate this issue under a global view will never raise same solutions.

Actually in Spain, prostitution are leaded by Ruman, Russian or Chinese mafias so dis-criminalization can not be giving without a laboral regulation. At least, the prostitute will always pay instead the real responsible.


And regarding "warranty and right of return", yes, it may be consumed quickly, but so is a bottle of champagne in a bar. Again, the world manages to handle the consumer rights on that without worrying too much about it. Again differents law about protection of costumer. A bottle of champagne has a registred mark, a controled producer and licenced saler... and a lot of taxes between.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#70
Nov 3, 2012
Dragon said:
Some of you are indeed confusing legalization with over-regulation. One does not require the other.
Click to expand...

Certainly I don't do. In Sapin we're talking about this issue long years ago, Women Rights, Human Rights, Fiscalia, Non-lucrative Associations... a lot of information and raw testimonies (not yellow press). I know Where I am living.


Edit: BTW Till now, prostitution were unlawful, but not illegal. Recently, it begins to be illegal after the approval of certain laws.
 
G

gibb_geralt

Rookie
#71
Nov 3, 2012
Veleda said:
Because something so personal and central to the human person should not be a commodity, and because the innocent will always get hurt. I don't think it should be criminal, but it's certainly not a "backward notion" to consider it beneath human dignity and harmful to society.

For one thing, there will be children produced, and one way or another, those children will get discarded. It's true that we have ways to do this now which are sometimes more humane than the way the ancients and medievals did it (i.e. exposure of live infants), but it's still the same thing and our attempts to clinicalize it or distance ourselves from the truth only lead to the kind of callousness to human life that most of you say you abhor- trafficking and the like.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with that sentiment. Sex is a wonderful thing indeed, but that does not necessitate some kind of holier than thou status. Many people, particularly in the teenage years, will just go around getting laid. Why? Simply because it feels good, and people like feeling good. Sex is not reserved for love struck couples. And what do you mean when you say "the innocent will always get hurt"?

If one wished to make a profit from such a deed, then i see absolutely no harm in doing so.

In relation to your point on children, how exactly is this any different from horny teens running around and being scandalous? I'm sure many end up pregnant, and terminate the pregnancy. What's the difference if there were conception with prostitution? Unless you're getting at the whole "at conception the organism is a person and deserves human rights" argument. If so, i REALLY don't want to go there. That can of worms tends to engulf entire threads into an abyss no amount of godly powers can remove them from.
 
D

dragonbird

Ex-moderator
#72
Nov 3, 2012
Wichat said:
No, we'll not agree for just one reason: penal codes are different in each country. To cooke for sale is penalized. And so... Surely there're a lot of lucrative shares which are penalitzed in a country and perfectly legal in others, so generalizate this issue under a global view will never raise same solutions.Actually in Spain, prostitution are leaded by Ruman, Russian or Chinese mafias so dis-criminalization can not be giving without a laboral regulation. At least, the prostitute will always pay instead the real responsible.And regarding "warranty and right of return", yes, it may be consumed quickly, but so is a bottle of champagne in a bar. Again, the world manages to handle the consumer rights on that without worrying too much about it. Again differents law about protection of costumer. A bottle of champagne has a registred mark, a controled producer and licenced saler... and a lot of taxes between.
Click to expand...
I definitely agree that this does need to be handled differently in different countries, but I don't think that's a reason not to try. My understanding is that Spain was fairly good on this, criminalising the pimps and those who take advantage of the prostitutes, but not the prostitutes themselves. However, from your later post, I gather this isn't the case any more?

The problem is that there are an awful lot of countries where the seller, the prostitute, is considered a criminal but the buyer, the john, isn't. This is just so wrong, and is definitely a significant factor in trafficking and in other abuse of women (and of male sex workers).

Wichat said:
BTW Till now, prostitution were unlawful, but not illegal. Recently, it begins to be illegal after the approval of certain laws.
Click to expand...
Can you explain that? I know the difference between unlawful and illegal under English law, but can't think what "unlawful" would mean in this case, for prostitution. Since you're talking about Spanish Law, it may have a slightly different meaning.

Wichat said:
Unless you're getting at the whole "at conception the organism is a person and deserves human rights" argument. If so, i REALLY don't want to go there. That can of worms tends to engulf entire threads into an abyss no amount of godly powers can remove them from.
Click to expand...
No, don't go there. So far, this has been an interesting and intellectual discussion. Going there will probably get it locked very, very quickly. :)
 
K

KnightofPhoenix

Rookie
#73
Nov 3, 2012
Veleda said:
I'm not sure I agree with your cause and effect here. There would still be a black market, unless you envision people who were used to paying Back Alley Sally would suddenly agree to pony up union wages for her, plus taxes.
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There would still be one, but it would be reduced almost axiomatically, if the demand drops. The demand is very likely to drop if people see that they can get the same service legally, safely and in a more healthy environment.

Every business is dependent on demand.

I do also, BTW, have to quibble with your comparison of this to private mercenary agencies. While those also operate in gray areas, they are under the same basic umbrella as police and military- defensive use of force and in protection of the innocent. Only radical pacifists would see this as immoral. We're not talking about murder-for-hire agencies, after all.
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....the military is used as a defensive force to protect the innocent? Really?
You can't possibly be that naive. Do you have any idea what PMCs did in Iraq and other zones? Who they fight for and help? Do you think mercenaries care about anything other than to get paid?

It is a valid analogy. A mercenary fights for money. Their tolerance for some acts may vary (prostitutes also have limits), but ultimately that's what the profession is.


@ Wichat
I think your point was addressed. Regulation does not mean that the government will go in and determine everything about it. It will be more regarding health and the protection of employees. But it won't be a nationalized business, it would still work in the private sector.

It's not a perfect solution and yes, some people might find it too expensive so resort to the black market. But I'd argue that people are more likely to pay extra, to do something legally and safely (condoms for instance can be provided free of charge), esp if they see the government cracking down on the criminal sector.

In essence, the government needs to be serious about it.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#74
Nov 3, 2012
dragonbird said:
I definitely agree that this does need to be handled differently in different countries, but I don't think that's a reason not to try. My understanding is that Spain was fairly good on this, criminalising the pimps and those who take advantage of the prostitutes, but not the prostitutes themselves. However, from your later post, I gather this isn't the case any more?
Click to expand...
It is now illegal for prostitutes who work in the streets. Prostitution itself is not illegal. Yes pimping.


dragonbird said:
The problem is that there are an awful lot of countries where the seller, the prostitute, is considered a criminal but the buyer, the john, isn't. This is just so wrong, and is definitely a significant factor in trafficking and in other abuse of women (and of male sex workers).
Click to expand...
Here, the buyer is as guilty as the prostitute and he is denounced too.


dragonbird said:
Can you explain that? I know the difference between unlawful and illegal under English law, but can't think what "unlawful" would mean in this case, for prostitution. Since you're talking about Spanish Law, it may have a slightly different meaning.
Click to expand...
Not easy to translate, there's no the same meaning term in English. I'm not a versed in legal terminology, but I would say it is illegal which is against the law and unlawful/ lawless is not meet any legal standard, ie what works without being legally regulated. And therefore it is impossible to impute any crime.
 
wichat

wichat

Mentor
#75
Nov 3, 2012
KnightofPhoenix said:
@ Wichat
I think your point was addressed. Regulation does not mean that the government will go in and determine everything about it. It will be more regarding health and the protection of employees. But it won't be a nationalized business, it would still work in the private sector.

It's not a perfect solution and yes, some people might find it too expensive so resort to the black market. But I'd argue that people are more likely to pay extra, to do something legally and safely (condoms for instance can be provided for free of charge), esp if they see the government cracking down on the criminal sector.

In essence, the government needs to be serious about it.
Click to expand...
Sure, but legalicy doen't no be enough, it doesn't work alone. What should be done with the thousands of women sex slaves involuntary undocumented, uneducated, with no resources to return to their country with dignity? It is a great investment that few governments want to assume. The work should be of broad cooperation among affected countries, their ministries of labor, health, interior and justice. Unfortunately, in countries that may be carried out only count the votes. In those where there is possible ... no comment. I know how hard is this fight.
 
K

KnightofPhoenix

Rookie
#76
Nov 3, 2012
Wichat said:
Sure, but legalicy doen't no be enough, it doesn't work alone. What should be done with the thousands of women sex slaves involuntary undocumented, uneducated, with no resources to return to their country with dignity? It is a great investment that few governments want to assume. The work should be of broad cooperation among affected countries, their ministries of labor, health, interior and justice. Unfortunately, in countries that may be carried out only count the votes. In those where there is possible ... no comment. I know how hard is this fight.
Click to expand...
Of course, I never presented de-criminalization as THE solution. It will require several initiatives, both local and global.

For me, it's not really an issue of resources, rather of will. No one has political will anymore.
 
B

Blothulfur

Mentor
#77
Nov 3, 2012
One thing that should be looked at is the skill level of the workers, honestly some women wouldn't know how to handle the crown jewels to save their lives, I submit that we have some kind of independent inspector who tests the ladies to ensure their skill at pleasing clientele. Perhaps even award vocational qualificationsand stamps of quality assurance on the derriere.

It would have to be somebody ugly to condition the girls into accepting such physical imperfections, maybe hairy as well, possibly one eyed and horribly scarred, with a sense of humour able to put the ladies at their ease. Oh and he should be blonde and blue eyed, to shatter the myth that such people are naturally attractive. Maybe have a nice warm regional accent, such as Sean Beans.

I've got it! Me. What can I say, i'm a giver.
 
U

username_3588181

Rookie
#78
Nov 3, 2012
Ward Dragon said:

“I'm looking at it from a US perspective, so it might be different from what you've experienced in Poland. I'd generally agree that the government tends to mess things up by over-regulating. However I do believe some basic regulations are necessary, especially where it concerns public health.

For example it's normal here for vaccinations to be required for public school students (although parents can sign forms to exempt their children from the vaccinations due to religious beliefs). Health care workers need to be vaccinated against diseases as well because if they get infected they could spread it to their patients. And I think porn actors need to be tested on a regular basis as well (assuming that the Law & Order TV show didn't lie to me ). So if prostitution was legalized here, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting similar requirements for public safety's sake.”

Little off topic :p :
It used to be the same here, but recently our parliament passed a law that lets the Main sanitary inspector declare an epidemic and all citizens will be required to vaccinate themselves (children and adults, and the doctors are authorized to use force if necessary without a court order). To push things even more the definition of an infectious diseases (which are the main targets of this law) was changed so that a normal flu can be used to issue an alert (I’m just curious how much money was passed under the table from pharmaceutical companies to pass this law). The bill also gives sanitary inspectors supreme authority during an epidemic ( or an investigation ) and they will not be accountable before the citizens or the government.

Back to the subject:

The health issue would probably regulate itself. As a customer whenever you want a service done you check the credentials of a company you want to hire to make sure you will be satisfied. The same thing would apply to prostitution. If a person would want to visit a brothel, then it’s in that persons best interest to ask if the employees have medical checkups (unless he/she doesn’t care about getting an STD in which case he/she is at fault). When the owner sees that there is a demand he/she will comply, because refusal to meet the demand would send the customers to competition or to lose interest in the service altogether (either way there is a loss of money involved). If the government would regulate the health issue there would be a lot of subjective lines that would have to be drown, for example: how often is the checkup needed, what kind of medical services would the checkup contain, where would it be done, and there would have to be someone who would check if the requirements are met. The more regulations are placed, the more likely corruption will occur and it’s basically undermining the reason those laws were established in the first place. Even if the rules turn out to be good they still are arbitrary. As an example I’m going to use a (sorry for so much examples from Poland, but this country is full of absurdity when it comes to law and regulations :) maybe that’s why I like Monty Python’s Flying Circus so much :) ) law passed in the European parliament that requires every fuel distributor (as in the thing that you pour fuel from , don’t have an idea how it is called in English :p ) to have additional layers for protection. Safety is good , but the cost of those layers will put a lot of small gas station owners out of business. I’m not that old (22), but I don’t remember ever hearing about an explosion on a gas station (aside from movies), so while the law may be a good one, is it really necessary ?

“road to hell is paved with good intentions” :)



Ward Dragon said:
“And as far as other regulations go, I think it would be safer for everyone if brothels became legal but not pimping people on streets and alleys, or anything shady like that. I still don't think the prostitutes themselves should be charged with anything, but I hate pimps who take advantage of people and are often abusive and prey on people who can't go to the police for help. That's why I think prostitutes shouldn't be charged for prostitution, so that they can go to the police without fear of being imprisoned for things that they were probably coerced into doing.”

And those issues are already regulated by law (assault, harassment, threats etc…) . If prostitution is legalized then there is no reason for the prostitutes not to report abuse or any violence towards them to the authorities (unless those authorities would be really incompetent, but that would be a problem on its own…).


KnightofPhoenix:

Good article (a little short though :) ), but i think you missed few issues that i personally have with democracy (probably because you didn’t want to go so much into details). For me democracy is not as much an empowerment of the people as it is an illusion of choice coupled with lack of responsibility. People are afraid to speak their minds thanks to political correctness and eat up everything they are told by the media. I don’t have a problem that tv channels are biased (unless they are public). The problem in my eyes is that people don’t know that the news/tv shows they are watching are biased. Most people believe everything they see on the news and are too lazy to research alternative sources to come to their own conclusion on the subject and these are the people that vote. So if the people are fed false or biased information, then who is the one truly in charge? Polls that are shown during elections are a perfect example of this. Few people realize that the outcome of a poll is dependent on whoever ordered it (and even if they do, most are inclined to believe it if the outcome is favorable towards their preferred party/candidate while dismissing the ones conducted by the opposition), and they vote for the main candidates to “make their vote count”. As for the responsibility: when a politician makes a decision that turns out to be a complete failure ,who will be responsible for it? The politician for screwing up (does his punishment consist only of not getting reelected or will he be facing a trial), or his voters because they choose him (how do we even make them accountable)? Democracy allows to cast blame on the voters which actually helps the establishment to a certain degree (Divide et impera). Republicans vs Democrats is a prime example of this. When the society is divided and busy arguing it’s easier to pass legislation that otherwise would raise serious questions (NDAA, anyone?).

I’m more in favor of liberal authoritarianism, but I’m not delusional. Realistically the guy in charge could be a complete idiot that will destroy the country economically or with civil wars.

The best solution I see is the Enlightened despotism taking control via coups d'état . While in power the Enlightened despot should write down a constitution for a liberal country that is based on personal freedom (negative liberty) and free market. The said constitution should also be safeguarded against any attempts to override it by a potential future parliament (thus creating a Republic instead of a Democracy). The law in such a country should be clear and simple (the more complicated the law , the more loopholes will be created) and based on justice and equality of every person (no social justice crap). After the foundations of a country would be set, the time would come for positive liberty. The enlightened despot would clear office and set up the first election. The elected officials would be running the country ,but they would have to abide the constitution (in Poland the constitution is called the most important law bill in the country which is laughable, because nobody seems to give a fuck about anything that’s written in there…) and would not have the authority to change it. Still there would be a chance that the country would drift away from being a Republic. In the end the only sure safeguard is the hope that people will appreciate freedom and fight for it, if needed.

Fat chance of that happening, but a man can dream :)

And about the military:

Don’t be delusional. The primary function is to defend the interests (can’t find a better word) of the country. That said , it’s not like there are no heroes in the armies (there are) or that an army wouldn’t protect its country ( staying independent is usually in a countries best interest ). The military and the police are also an important mechanism of oppression. In a country that has harsh gun laws the last thing is really evident (as they are the only ones that have easy access to weapons). Maybe I’m just paranoid, but when taxes are being raised , ridiculous regulations arise, the law is inefficient and constantly abused by corrupted judges and politicians and only the guys that wear uniforms are getting raises or are keeping their privileges (except for Firemen who coincidentally aren’t issued guns…) things start to look a little obvious.

Cheers :)
 
V

Veleda.980

Rookie
#79
Nov 3, 2012
GibbGeralt said:
In relation to your point on children, how exactly is this any different from horny teens running around and being scandalous? I'm sure many end up pregnant, and terminate the pregnancy. What's the difference if there were conception with prostitution? Unless you're getting at the whole "at conception the organism is a person and deserves human rights" argument. If so, i REALLY don't want to go there. That can of worms tends to engulf entire threads into an abyss no amount of godly powers can remove them from.
Click to expand...
It's not different except in that you've made it into a commodity which is even more de-humanizing. I repeat that I'm not arguing prostitution should be criminalized, but it's foolish to think it's harmless.
 
V

Veleda.980

Rookie
#80
Nov 3, 2012
freakie1one said:
Hmm, I watched a documentary on prostitution a while back (for the life of me can't remember the name of it) and there are many "high-end" (no pun intended) prostitutes that are not forced into it. They make good money, they enjoy the job and they are treated with respect by their clientele. Some of the men in the documentary were just seeking companionship and their visits with the prostitute involved nothing sexual. I believe some people have this stigma about prostitution that it always involves women being taken advantage of by dirty, sex-crazed men. I don't believe these women were "selling their bodies". They were selling their time and companionship, but their body was never owned by anyone else (which is often the case in human trafficking).
Click to expand...
Wealth and privilege will always make things better, but you don't see anything wrong with those sad sacks that are trying to buy something so integral to human life, which can be got through real relationships where they're expected to give something themselves other than their spare change?

They should be free to do it if that's what they want, but I can't see it as anything but a pathetic exchange, even in those best-case scenarios.
 
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