Let's compare bronze Syndicate cards to bronzes in other factions for a good laugh!

[4RM3D]

Compare Philippa with Muzzle for even more clarity.

Muzzle is a neutral card and neutral cards are suppose to be a tad weaker. Regardless, Muzzle is still a good card. I've also said before: Philippa is fairly stated. In an engine meta, she is good, in a removal meta, she not as good. Overall, she is fine. Furthermore, there are other Syndicate cards that need fixing. Philippa doesn't even make the top 5 (which is worrisome itself, I guess). If she does get nerfed, I would suspect no more than minus 1 strength or plus 1 provision.

I definitely can't think of one reason why Pavko would be so weak compared to Freakshow.

You're still asking the wrong question. But if you must, then you should rephrase it to: Why is Freak Show so strong (compared to Pavko)? Because it's a broken card.

Why was freak show released if it was obviously overpowered. Didn't they say they had a beta test with this faction?

Freak Show had a different ability on the PTR, but it was changed last minute.

There is nothing in SC that synergies well with Pavko. [...]
If Pavko Gale is bad or mediocre why has it stayed in that state for so long?

Because Pavko is a meme card. There is nothing wrong with putting such cards in the game, as long as the faction has decent alternatives.

According to something they said in the beta there was a way to interact with the coins or something like that. But nobody liked it and they took it out.

Because it was a badly designed card, targeted at one specific mechanic. For the same reason, no one plays Lambert: Swordmaster. Maybe there should be a way for the opponent to interact with coins, but not by using a gimmicky card.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

You're still asking the wrong question. But if you must, then you should rephrase it to: Why is Freak Show so strong (compared to Pavko)? Because it's a broken card.


Freak Show had a different ability on the PTR, but it was changed last minute.


Because Pavko is a meme card. There is nothing wrong with putting such cards in the game, as long as the faction has decent alternatives.
.

You brought up the vacuum argument which doesn't work here because there is no good reason for this kind of discrepancy. It's because both Freakshow is broken and Pavko is a bad card.

They made the card broken at the last minute? Not a good move.

Honestly I fundamentally disagree with the existence of meme cards. They take up time and space in the game. It's crazy that there are this many cards in the game and deck building still feels so limited. It's because there are so many terrible cards in the game like that one.

 

[Archan6el]

Muzzle is a neutral card and neutral cards are suppose to be a tad weaker. Regardless, Muzzle is still a good card. I've also said before: Philippa is fairly stated. In an engine meta, she is good, in a removal meta, she not as good. Overall, she is fine. Furthermore, there are other Syndicate cards that need fixing. Philippa doesn't even make the top 5 (which is worrisome itself, I guess). If she does get nerfed, I would suspect no more than minus 1 strength or plus 1 provision.

C'mon, what about in general needing less than one provision to get a coin and Philippa seizing without locking? I'd say on average she breaks even when seizing a 5 strength unit, not even talking about engines. She should get a nerf: limit to seizing a unit of 7 max and that's generous considering all the above.

Maybe there should be a way for the opponent to interact with coins, but not by using a gimmicky card.

Fully agree, there should be a way to interact for the opponent and surely not with some gimmicky cards (like artifact removal). Coins are cool but need rework imo. Let the coins stay with the units, make coins stealable by killing units and let coins replace charges, killing two birds with one stone for a more interactable game.

 

[Raziel_888]

Because it was a badly designed card, targeted at one specific mechanic. For the same reason, no one plays Lambert: Swordmaster. Maybe there should be a way for the opponent to interact with coins, but not by using a gimmicky card.

Players could lose coins when their units are destroyed by the opponent? Either a fix amount, or dependent on its strength. That would push players to put more cards to gain coins instead of just bounty-removal or Dijkstra/Gudrun for 9 coins straight and then fill the deck with all the OP engines. And, like for charges, it would make it riskier to keep the coins for too long.

Post automatically merged: Jul 2, 2019

Although I think one of the easiest solution would be to give the fee ability one turn to be activated, like orders

 

[croloris]

Pavko was an okay card when HC first came out, especially when utilized with Schirru before Schirru was nerfed. But in general, the power creep of each expansion has made some of the older cards obsolete. The problem with this expansion is that the power creep made NR completely unplayable (please prove me wrong on this statement) and made many of the other factional archetypes very difficult to win with.

 

[rrc]

This thread was originally about bronze cards, but more discussions are going in the way of Gold cards. So, let me chime in my 2 cents about Phillipa. She is not as OP as the victims think. Yes, in my second or third game after the expansion hit, I faced a Henselt and pushed for 0-2 victory even though I was a card down (Blue Coin) because I stole the Botchling with Philipa in R2. But ever since the expansion hit, I have changed my decks a hundred times and Phillipa was in every single one of them. But rarely RARELY did I feel "thank God I have Phillipa! I won the game due to her". She drains your coins and I have lost many games because I used her prematurely or because I used/had her. Sometimes, I seize a 4 point body for just the sake of it (14 provisions for 11 points and no synergy or use). You have the most fantastic removals in the game (The Brothers, Executioner, Regenade Mage) and many need coins and Phillipa outright bricks them (or make them mediocre).

I am not saying SY doesn't need nerfs. Some mechanics are too damn powerful and with the right setup, there is no way the opponent can survive (cough 'Bounty' cough). SY definitely needs a nerf, but Phillipa is not one of them. Don't take it from a noob like me; even SirPumpkn mentioned this, and, he even told that 'if there is something that needs to be done about Phillipa, it is that she needs a buff'. Now, if I haven't played SY and haven't used Phillipa, I would have unfollowed his stream for that comment (just joking), but I agreed with him in my mind.

Now, about Bronzes, you can keep every one of SY bronze and ST bronze of same provisions to its right and just laugh till your stomach hurts or cry till your eyes hurt.

 

[Manwwe]

I'll contribute to this, the more noise we make that SY is OP, the quicker the nerfs will come, hopefully.

Hopefully!! I am tired of SY, and we are just at the beginning....
It´s a SK 2.0.

Post automatically merged: Jul 3, 2019

Now, about Bronzes, you can keep every one of SY bronze and ST bronze of same provisions to its right and just laugh till your stomach hurts or cry till your eyes hurt.

Indeed! As a SC player, I don´t know whether laugh or cry when looking at its bronze cards roster....

 

[BoYoDes]

... Philippa is fairly stated...

Yet I truly believe when the Nerfhammer hits, if it misses her, she will stuck like a sore thumb. Just like Cleaver did after they changed few other control cards couple of months ago.

 

[4RM3D]

I truly believe when the Nerfhammer hits, if it misses her, she will stuck like a sore thumb.

The nerfhammer...

Spoiler: this nerfhammer?

Joking aside, as far as swing cards go, Sigi is auto-include, while Philippa is not. The former is also an easy enabler for the latter. Maybe when Sigi is getting nerfed, Philippa doesn't have to.

 

[rrc]

...Sigi is auto-include,...

@4RM3D, do you really think Sigi is an auto-include card? He has some inherent weakness; when I tried to use him, I always wasted some coins on his deploy (unless it is R1) or due to the fact that the next card I want/have to play bring profit and I wont be able to use that card and have to play sub-optimally. In theory he is great and he can greatly work with Phillipa and RadenianShip, but I had a hard time properly using him and had to remove him. Of course, that is mainly because I am a noob trying out new things. If the next card the opponent plays (after Sigi) is not seize worthy, you have to play a card without profit, or you are losing value. All I am saying is, he is an great card, but is difficult to pilot and needs extreme care to play properly without losing value. In the hands of a pro player, he is very strong, but with normal players, he is a liability needing to put too much thought into using him.

 

[bojerbela]

@4RM3D, do you really think Sigi is an auto-include card? He has some inherent weakness; when I tried to use him, I always wasted some coins on his deploy (unless it is R1) or due to the fact that the next card I want/have to play bring profit and I wont be able to use that card and have to play sub-optimally. In theory he is great and he can greatly work with Phillipa and RadenianShip, but I had a hard time properly using him and had to remove him. Of course, that is mainly because I am a noob trying out new things. If the next card the opponent plays (after Sigi) is not seize worthy, you have to play a card without profit, or you are losing value. All I am saying is, he is an great card, but is difficult to pilot and needs extreme care to play properly without losing value. In the hands of a pro player, he is very strong, but with normal players, he is a liability needing to put too much thought into using him.

I did not play much Syndicate, but the Gudrun-Sigi-Renew trio can be deadly with cards you can use your coin for (cuogh Borsodis cough).

 

[4RM3D]

He has some inherent weakness; when I tried to use him, I always wasted some coins on his deploy [...]

Coin overdose is an inherent problem when all Fee cards also have Profit. The only solution is having a coin spender on the board. Regardless, Sigi doesn't really exacerbates this issue. Instead, he always gives you reliable value.

 

[tulamide]

It is what I call a "luxury problem", if the only argument defending Philippa is "damn, I just used her because she was there" instead of waiting for the best moment. That doesn't take away any of that card's strength. Does anyone say "Svalblod Priest isn't too strong, I prematurely used it just because it was on my hand, then it got locked and I lost"?

Regarding coins, it's as simple as it gets. Remnoving coins from my opponents should be just as easy as it is for them to store. A special that gives 6 coins? Ok, introduce a special that removes 6 coins. A card with Profit? Introduce cards with Deficit. Removes as many coins as the number indicates. Profit 3? Have Deficit 3 as well. Etc.

I'm pretty sure it won't happen, since nobody wants SY nerfed, now that there finally is a faction stronger than Skellige. Yet, it is not good to let the problems run. Immediate action is required from CDPR.

 

[4RM3D]

Regarding coins, it's as simple as it gets. Remnoving coins from my opponents should be just as easy as it is for them to store. A special that gives 6 coins? Ok, introduce a special that removes 6 coins. A card with Profit? Introduce cards with Deficit. Removes as many coins as the number indicates. Profit 3? Have Deficit 3 as well. Etc.

It's definitely not as simple as it gets. Your suggestion is a badly designed way to interact with coins, targeted at one specific mechanic. For the same reason, no one plays Lambert: Swordmaster. Maybe there should be a way for the opponent to interact with coins, but not by using gimmicky cards.

 

[tulamide]

It's definitely not as simple as it gets. Your suggestion is a badly designed way to interact with coins, targeted at one specific mechanic. For the same reason, no one plays Lambert: Swordmaster. Maybe there should be a way for the opponent to interact with coins, but not by using gimmicky cards.

It won't surprise you that I don't agree. Introducing a new mechanic without letting influence it from the opponent - that's a badly designed way. Currently coins are more secure than immune cards. But nowhere else in the game do you find such stupidness. There are locking cards and unlocking cards. There are damaging cards and healing cards. There are vitality cards and there are bleeding cards. I don'T see why coins should be an exception from the rule.

 

[4RM3D]

I don'T see why coins should be an exception from the rule.

Because coins is a Syndicate only mechanic and you don't want to have anti-faction cards. If the opponent should be able to interact with coins, it should be done in a more generic way. The easiest solution is that coins can be damaged (read: stolen). However, I am not a fan of this either. But something along those lines.

 

[SkiZophreniC]

Because coins is a Syndicate only mechanic and you don't want to have anti-faction cards. If the opponent should be able to interact with coins, it should be done in a more generic way. The easiest solution is that coins can be damaged (read: stolen). However, I am not a fan of this either. But something along those lines.

It is a good suggestion indeed. Replace the coin icon with a dedicated "hoard" card that you could damage (or even steal) as other cards. It would work well imo

 

[akhorahill]

I would think the removal of the "aura of zeal" and the introduction of a "one round cooldown" on the abilities would be enough. Welcome to the world of NR!

 

[Luckless_Jack]

Imagine if NR could store charges safely on their leader, like coins are, instead of on units on the board. That would be scary. I wonder why they decided on the different treatment for the coins mechanic? Is it just an experiment to see how it would work? Could it change?

It's notable that currently only NR can manipulate the enemy's charges (via Thaler and Kaedweni Cavalry) even though other factions also use them. Does that set the precedent that only Syndicate would ever be able to mess with the enemy's coins too? Might that faction exclusivity eventually change for both charges and coins?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

It is what I call a "luxury problem", if the only argument defending Philippa is "damn, I just used her because she was there" instead of waiting for the best moment. That doesn't take away any of that card's strength. Does anyone say "Svalblod Priest isn't too strong, I prematurely used it just because it was on my hand, then it got locked and I lost"?

Regarding coins, it's as simple as it gets. Remnoving coins from my opponents should be just as easy as it is for them to store. A special that gives 6 coins? Ok, introduce a special that removes 6 coins. A card with Profit? Introduce cards with Deficit. Removes as many coins as the number indicates. Profit 3? Have Deficit 3 as well. Etc.

I'm pretty sure it won't happen, since nobody wants SY nerfed, now that there finally is a faction stronger than Skellige. Yet, it is not good to let the problems run. Immediate action is required from CDPR.

SY is OP however I don't like cards that take away coins. That would have the same terrible problem we have with artifacts/artifact removal.

Post automatically merged: Jul 3, 2019

It won't surprise you that I don't agree. Introducing a new mechanic without letting influence it from the opponent - that's a badly designed way. Currently coins are more secure than immune cards. But nowhere else in the game do you find such stupidness. There are locking cards and unlocking cards. There are damaging cards and healing cards. There are vitality cards and there are bleeding cards. I don'T see why coins should be an exception from the rule.

What if each faction had their own version of coins?