Lets talk about the Voice Acting and the Writing!

[Snowflakez]

There's no real conclusion to reach. The intent is an open discussion. it will be an uncomfortable one, but that's why I asked.

Poor wording on my part. I meant, I hope you achieve whatever you are trying to achieve, whatever that may be (open discussion or otherwise). I have nothing against an uncomfortable political talk (as long as everyone's respectful), I just don't want to get into it here. Like I said, I have enough of that in other parts of the internet and it can become exhausting.

More power to you, is my point.

 

[Loostreaks]

To the writer, it does seem to be an issue of stereotyping. You may have different concerns (which are much more valid, IMO), but this writer in particular does not make good arguments. She seems more offended/upset by the portrayal of a Latino than disappointed by the dialogue as a whole.

She can feel that way, totally fine, but I see that thinking as problematic, to say the least.

CDPR is not known for stereotyping their characters, not the central ones anyway (and even many of the side ones).

Well stereotypes really aren't the problem ( as I see it). Some of the best characters ( in books, movies and video games) are stereotypes. Problem is when they are nothing but.

If we end up here with characters just throwing around "cool" one-liners, then everyone will end up sounding like a try-hard teenager... and end up looking the opposite.

I think a script needs a degree of self awareness to it ( emphasis on attitude). ( Grim) Situation as it is, requires sort of blind optimism and overconfidence, as sort of psychological adaption. But characters should often see through it, often takes jabs at one another, realizing it is stil a facade.

V: So... Jack are you ready for this?
Jack: Me, chica? This Latino fights fiercely as he loves, always the last one to be left standing.
V: Really? I seem to remember you were "fiercely" sleeping through the night, last Friday on the floor in Afterlife.
Moment of silence..
Jack breaks out laughing (this "breaks the ice"), then you have typical "casual conversation" taking place
...

Or with Hans Landa ( Inglorious Bastards), a stereotypical Nazi, brilliantly portrayed character with typical characteristics, but also someone who is extremely cunning, charming, intelligent, really enjoys outsmarting his enemies...to the point he actually becomes likable.

 

[n4meless1]

I cannot stress this enough, let PoC write PoC.

And men should write male characters, female should write females, gay- gays, trans- trans persons.. Nazi- Nazis, commie-commies, etc etc. Actually, players would benefit from that, but in most cases it's just a fantasy. CDPR have the coolest black dude alive at their disposal, so maybe they can consult him about black characters, or even better, put him in the game and let him write his own character.

 

[Garrison72]

They don't need minority writers to depict minorities, they just need to do their homework. When they designed the dialog for the various factions in TW3, they were very meticulous. I wouldn't be surprised if they're working with writers/cultural historians etc to make the lingo and various accents in CP 77 sound convincing. It could be that they've just laid it on too thick in the demo, or it sounds forced.

 

[Snowflakez]

And men should write male characters, female should write females, gay- gays, trans- trans persons.. Nazi- Nazis, commie-commies, etc etc. Actually, players would benefit from that, but in most cases it's just a fantasy. CDPR have the coolest black dude alive at their disposal, so maybe they can consult him about black characters, or even better, put him in the game and let him write his own character.

I would kill to have Mike as the in-game narrator for stuff like Dandelion was in TW3. God, I want that to happen so bad.

 

[BluPixel]

I don't get this "let PoC write PoC characters". We all are humans. Besides, a black writer could very well have a different education/culture than another black writer for example and so his writing of a dark skin character could be as flawed as a white writer. Like, your color doesn't necessarily make you more apt at writing or something.

I would kill to have Mike as the in-game narrator for stuff like Dandelion was in TW3. God, I want that to happen so bad.

YES! Voice is badass af

 

[n4meless1]

Besides, a black writer could very well have a different education/culture than another black writer for example and so his writing of a dark skin character could be as flawed as a white writer. Like, your color doesn't necessarily make you more apt at writing or something.

Yeah, you could easily hire some "we wuz kings" black writer and that would only make things worse.

 

[xer21]

I don't get this "let PoC write PoC characters". We all are humans.

this wouldnt be brought up if it wasn't bungled pretty frequently. Sure, some people get it write but it happens enough to be a thing.

 

[Snowflakez]

this wouldnt be brought up if it wasn't bungled pretty frequently. Sure, some people get it write but it happens enough to be a thing.

Why are people worried about CDPR, of all studios? Because of one or two reviewers (who are in the major minority, journos of all skin colors loved the demo) who are concerned?

Again, we know NOTHING about Jackie as a character. He could be just be trying to act hard and tough in the quotes given to us so far.

I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach, and I feel that's the best approach to take at the moment. It's fine to discuss our worries, but let's not instantly jump to "CDPR is doing it wrong and must hire POC" before we even know. Let's give their FANTASTIC writers a chance to once again show us what they can do, in a more diverse (by its very nature) setting.

Once we see more gameplay and see that there's an actual problem (I doubt there will be, but let's assume there is), then we can start harping on them about it if we must.

EDIT: accidental caps

 

[xer21]

Why are people worried about CDPR, of all studios?

me personally? because they're european based and far removed from much of this in their lives, and their three previous games marketed in fictional races, ethnicity and cultures so they ran much less risk of stumbling.

 

[Snowflakez]

me personally? because they're european based and far removed from much of this in their lives, and their three previous games marketed in fictional races, ethnicity and cultures so they ran much less risk of stumbling.

But their writers handled sensitive material nonetheless.

Not to mention, CDPR is not comprised solely of Europeans, or even Polish individals. Many Americans have been recruited to work over there - in fact, I'd be super curious to hear how many of the devs are Polish vs. how many are foreigners.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, the simple truth is that CDPR hires for quality of writer - not skin colour or culture or gender or sexual preference.

They have people across the spectrum(s) working there, although I did not take a poll of who is gay/straight, Polish/American, Japanese/French, etc when I was there last. Nor would I. They can write and write well- that's what matters. I don't need them to be actual punks, or gunmen or Americans (black, white or latino) or hackers or what have you that they are writing about. That's where the skill comes in.

I'm sure something lacks in authenticity or 100% accuracy, but I'm also sure that opinions vary among specialists and minorities as well, as to what is "authentic" and "real".

We get good writing with CDPR and that's more than we usually get in this entertainment arena.

Now, this is a delicate subject and I can tell you it stands a high chance of getting you in trouble.

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[xer21]

But their writers handled sensitive material nonetheless. Aren't we now being a bit racist ourselves by saying because they are European, they can't possibly understand the struggles of Americans?

Not to mention, CDPR is not comprised solely of Europeans, or even Polish individals. Many Americans have been recruited to work over there - in fact, I'd be super curious to hear how many of the devs are Polish vs. how many are foreigners.

im not saying that they cant do it. im saying their situation necessitates a higher degree of care than in the past. they've literally never done this before, and no developer is infallible.

 

[Snowflakez]

Well, the simple truth is that CDPR hires for quality of writer - not skin colour or culture or gender or sexual preference.

They have people across the spectrum(s) working there, although I did not take a poll of who is gay/straight, Polish/American, Japanese/French, etc when I was there last. Nor would I. They can write and write well- that's what matters. I don't need them to be actual punks, or gunmen or Americans (black, white or latino) or hackers or what have you that they are writing about. That's where the skill comes in.

Pretty much this.

 

[lelxrv]

If poser clowns aren't writing the Bozos, I'm boycotting this game.

Seriously, though. I'm hopeful that CDPR will do their homework and bring colorful yet reasonably authentic characters to the game. They did it in the past and with great success.

 

[the_ragnarokkr]

I have faith in CDPR. That's all I have to say.

 

[Cabbagehead12]

im not saying that they cant do it. im saying their situation necessitates a higher degree of care than in the past. they've literally never done this before, and no developer is infallible.

These topics always get funny when it involves the representation of a POC. Someone or a handful of people are quick to call it a non-issue. Especially when the writer herself, said that others after the demo. Noted the same kind of oddness to his lines. In either case despite the presents of Mike being there, who's view on it will be different and more holistic. I don't think anyone's sure, how this is going to work out bringing poc characters to life wise, within such a large complex setting as Night city.

Regardless of the time period, but ultimately its like you said Xer21 they've haven't really done this specific type of nuanced detail before in regards to a poc or trying to depict dofferent cultural districts. Without been heavy handed.

Maybe this just an example of elements relayed to the voice actor being "lost in translation" and the final release will provide a richer foundation of sound-btyes. Even still this is going to be tricky given the make up Cali versus the general make up of most Eastern European countries. Trying to capture that outside of just using TV, Movies and pop culture is going interesting take that will have its lumps. Even with consultants, but i think feedback and their own ability to hone dialogue/refine and the likeay be able to help them navigate pitfalls.

Overall, i don't think it's necessarily a "w vs poc" thing more about understanding, general day to day experiences, conversations of capturing characters of this type and trying to still create a heighten version of that. Just have to find the perfect balance. Becauss this is the type of stuff that gets added in as "flavor" as a identifier and overstays it's welcome, if its always the same. The steady build up of that jarring delivery will split the difference for better or for worse.

 

[Nithing]

This is about how CDPR translated and localised Witcher 3. Obviously this is not quite the same as representing different racial and ethnic groups but hopefully it gives an idea of how CDPR treats this kind of thing,

 

[SethSteiner]

These topics always get funny when it involves the representation of a POC. Someone or a handful of people are quick to call it a non-issue. Especially when the writer herself, said that others after the demo. Noted the same kind of oddness to his lines. (...)

It's a non issue because it's trivial. On one hand you (meaning she) wants representation, being visible on the other hand the moment some connection occurs it's immediately concerning. Other people said the lines were cheesy, not "oh my goodness this is a PoC issue, how dare they use words like hombre and culo?", not to mention the people who didn't find the lines cheesy or problematic at all or is their opinion suddenly irrelevant? That also includes the usage of foreign words not being some bad stereotype but being a reality, just not hers as it seems.

 

[Sild]

Doesn't matter how Quentin or anyone else achieves authentic dialogues. Can be very much by consulting someone or just being familiar with a specific culture. In this sense I fully support the idea that CDPR writers should consult people from specific backgrounds if authentic portrayals is the goal.

Now all they need to do is go find a latino gangbanger.. or a latino killer for hire.. i'm sure they're VERY careful
about what they say so to not seem stereotypical.