"Level-less" Mod

[gtcarlson]

"Level-less" Mod

I have some ideas for a "level-less" , not quite sure how to find all the files that require editing, but I though I would put it out there for someone who wanted to try, or for some help on where to locate things.

Main points:
-Changes the focus from level and gear to skills /potions/mutagens.
-No stat increase on leveling.
-No bonus or penalty for under or over leveled monster.
-No experience penalty for low level quests.
-All monster mutagens would have different properties, more powerful monster would have more powerful mutagens.
-Armour and weapons would be kept from the start for the duration of the game (you could craft the different sets/swords but they would not be more
powerful just different):
*You would start in basic armour, or import Ravens armour. (I think standard feline would be a good basic) and get a mastercraft version by the
end of white orchard
*or start with master crafted versions as you are a master witcher
-Swords from previous games would be available on start.
-Static difficulty of foes would stay the same across the same foe type.
-Geralt should be at MOST twice as powerful at end game, skills would be more for utility than for damage increase.
-Skill tress reworked, should reach full tree early to mid game (most skills reduced to 1 point), swapping of skills for contract monster required or you will fail.
-Must exploit monsters weaknesses to win (similar to how wraiths are almost impossible without yrden or moon dust)
-Oils would be duration, not charges.

Example of static difficult for end game:

Bandits- Low chance to parry, 10% of Geralt's health, 1-2 hits to kill.
Henchmen- Medium, 15%, 2-3.
Elves- Medium, 15%, 2-3.
Witch Hunters- Medium, 20%, 3-4.
Dwarves- Medium, 15%, 3-4.
Knights- Medium, 20%, 4-5.

Contract Monsters +100% health and 25% damage, and maybe increase that for end game monsters.

Same would be done for every type of foe in the game.

Ideas, suggestions and help greatly welcomed.

 

[moonknightgog]

"-No experience penalty for low level quests."

Not good. Having full XP for all quests means that you have to raise the level of the main quest.

"*or start with master crafted versions as you are a master witcher"

If the Mastecrafted has 20 points in armor, good.

"-Skill tress reworked, should reach full tree early to mid game (most skills reduced to 1 point), swapping of skills for contract monster required or you will fail."

The game will be unbalanced.

 

[Lieste]

I've a similar 'type' of mod in mind. Some other specific ideas floating about too, and I'd change some of the basic assumptions a little. Interested in following what you are doing. Not sure if there is enough overlap to make direct cooperation useful.

---------- Updated at 05:14 PM ----------

"-No experience penalty for low level quests."

Not good. Having full XP for all quests means that you have to raise the level of the main quest.

"*or start with master crafted versions as you are a master witcher"

If the Mastecrafted has 20 points in armor, good.

"-Skill tress reworked, should reach full tree early to mid game (most skills reduced to 1 point), swapping of skills for contract monster required or you will fail."

The game will be unbalanced.

In the absence of levels and skill and equipment inflation associated, does it even matter what XP is awarded?

 

[gtcarlson]

"-No experience penalty for low level quests."

Not good. Having full XP for all quests means that you have to raise the level of the main quest.

"*or start with master crafted versions as you are a master witcher"

If the Mastecrafted has 20 points in armor, good.

I don't think you grasped the concept. Have you tried the "mod" that disabled bonus/penalty of low/high level monster. Lvl 1 ghouls death march can kill a lvl 30 master crafted Geralt. Level of the main quest would be no issue. That was also with the stats of a level 30 Geralt I would remove stat increase for levels.

It's a complete direction change of character progression and difficulty of the game. All skills, items and foes would be rebalanced that's the whole point.

I've a similar 'type' of mod in mind. Some other specific ideas floating about too, and I'd change some of the basic assumptions a little. Interested in following what you are doing. Not sure if there is enough overlap to make direct cooperation useful.

I'll try and keep a list of the files I find that I'm wanting to edit and can always pass that along. When I have time to work on it that is haha.

 

[FailFailWin]

Love this idea, and if I can be bothered/can figure it out, I'll be making it if no-one else does. But as ever, RL comes first...

 

[MacCrusher]

Skill Based game-play; I'm all for it. Cyberpunk is supposedly heading this way. Not sure why W3 is the way it is, wrong choice in my opinion. Combat mechanics has skill-based at it's core, but it is smeared below bad stat questing. CDPR obviously knows the difference between level driven stat as vertical progress game-play; and skill based horizontal exploration -- exploration of skill/talent tree as "builds"; and exploration of game world, quests, collections -- here's my opinion:

Spoiler

... the inherent flaw in Level Based Game design. (nothing personal CDPR, just not the best choice for 'durable' gameplay)

There should be one level of difficulty higher than Death March -- Skill Based -- Example: If you're asked to fetch some poison/acid from an Arch Griffin, this should not be a fetch quest, to kill that griffin should take a lot of time and preparation, but most importantly -- lots of tactical and strategic skill -- Skill Based. (this assumes that AI uses skill as well -- good AI -- and mob are not just Hit-Point-Pinatas) How long does it take you to kill that Arch Griffin...? Five minutes, three minutes? Took me one minute on DM, on first play-thru because I had already leveled way passed said content simply by doing the primary Story and only the Story. (no mods installed). What should have been a challenge, had expired; would have been a challenge if my pc and mob were -- equally matched, talent-wise

Skill-Based Gameplay requires one very important foundational, structural mechanic -- Level Scaling (or no traditional levels at all -- just talent points per level). Level Scaling simply means: you will never level past a difficult encounter, or a difficulty setting (or that there is no 'vertical' progression, only horizontal). Guild Wars Original did this well (hard mode), Star Citizen will do this eventually (dynamic difficulty scaling), plenty of other examples -- the founder of RPG pen/paper has stated, to paraphrase: were he given another chance he would have never used numbers (stat growth) as the functional foundation for RPG -- it was a mistake. Heroics by Number was the wrong path. .....

I'm not much of a coder, but I believe a lot of this can be handled with changing flags on hostile mob. I believe a mod on nexus did a limited poor-mans version of this, I'll snoop around see what I can find. I'm not going to play much W3 until there is some sort of Level-Less or level scaling mod available.

. the only reason you'd need to continue gaining experience points is to gain talent points to spend in builds (horizontal progress). the sweat spot is around 40-50 talent points? This also assumes enemy improve their own talents the higher they scale up.

@gtcarlson, I've modded skyrim a lot like you describe, but with enemy AI and talents that get really complex and challenging at mid to late game. Though there is no late game, just a point where everything is loaded for bear and very deadly. Preping for a dragon fight plays more like W3 than W3. Really need to prep for these battles and run like hell if caught with your pants down *literally, LL modded*. You'll even need to recon the area, figure out what kind of dragon you'll be up against and bring the right followers with the right kind of gear for killing these unique denizen.

edit, also adding something like Shadows of Mordor Nemisis System would be very useful -- another skill-based game done extremely well. If W3 had sandbox, Nemisis-like System and purely skill based game play {level-less} it would have been revolutionary. (never been done before, unless you mod the hell out of skyrim)

 

[moris2121]

did someone make this mod yet?

 

[LukeSparow]

Mods that do this are around. If you set up Ghost Mode right for example levels basically do not matter (everything scales with you, quests aren't level-based etc.)