Nope. But you said yourself that you're offended by the mods very existence...
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Thank God! Do you mind answering a few questions about level scaling? They're in the OP. ThanksNo actually I am.
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No actually I am
Then I apologize if I offended you somehow, because for sure you made something I cannot do because my lack of skills.
But still, I don't like it for the reason I said before. I despite any kind of level scaling.
Which doesn't mean I like how CDPR handled the no level scaling in TW3.
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No, I said I don't like it. Am I allowed to not like something?
Yeah, the level scaling is a piece of crap. Somehting that a game designer make when he doesn't care to balance the game. But I'm pretty sure he didn't create the level scaling concept, just introduce it in the game with a mod.
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There, Skyrim is another shitty game that should be erased by the history of gaming.
Yeah, you feel stronger there. But you don't need those abilities. Not at all. You could stay level 1 for the entire game and nothing would change.
Neither in the witcher 2, nor in the 3rd chapter you play as the experienced character Geralt should be. Swordfight is based on skill and abilities, since at the start you are with very little of them (and learn through the game), then it is normal that "easy" enemies will be easier on the start, rather than in the end of the game.
All the second part of the post is wrong, play any other rpg and you will learn that the max level first of all isn't important, moreover it's not even near to 6 or 12. Try gothic (1-3), try dark souls (or any souls-like game). Once finished the game, tell me what's your final level (actually I don't care, level isn't the matter, but these are games that any rpg fan should have tried).
Immersion is sth personal, it doesn't play a role here. Progression is the major factor for an rpg, but even if you seek realism you're wrong, things are what they are and ever will be, they don't change as you became stronger.
PS: I agree with the last post, skyrim is just a piece of crap. It isn't even an rpg
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With lvl scaling enemies are gonna be relatively though all the time (there is default CDPR lvl scaling in the mod at the moment). With boss version, big monsters are gonna be even thougher. I recommend using no grey quest mod as well, since all the quests are gonna be challenging. If you want to be the game more lore friendly / realistic I would recommend my mod since Leshen or Gryphon would never be cakewalk for Geralt in the books, and one or few mistakes in sword fight could kill him IRL just like they can kill him in my mod.
And actually, the level scaling wasn't even in previous games. In the 5th chapter in The Witcher, you fight against very low level mobs such drowners. They don't scale to your level, they have the same level they had in the first and second chapter, and you kill them easy.
The same for Nekkers and Arpies in The Witcher 2.
Or for Letho, which doesn't became easier because of balancement issues, but just because you fight a level 30 mob at level 30-32, while in Flotsam you fought him while you was level 14-15, and he was still level 30.
I usually despise level scaling, as it removes the whole point of gaining levels in the first place. It also makes for very boring exploration and loot gathering. It completely ruined Oblivion for me as you could never sumble over some truly great loot and some armors was not even in the game world until you reached a set level range. Also you could eventually encounter bandits with some of the best armors in the game. It was so artifical it hurt..And ever since I have never liked level scaling.
But for Witcher 3 I do feel that the static level on some enemies in the world does not make any sense. As in Witcher 3 you are supposed to be almost the same Geralt as before he lost his memory, so to speak, the Geralt from the books but with the experience he had in Witcher 1 and 2. This means he should have retained all his knowledge and skill to a point where he is considered one of the best swordsmen in the world. And it just makes no sense for him to be bested by a simple drowner or a simple raggedy bandit just because the enemy is at a higher level. Especially after being able to take down a Gryphon early in the game. That being said, monsters will always be a danger to Geralt, no matter how good he is. But I just don't think all enemies should have had a level higher than Geralt.
I also find it sort of annoying how there are quests that crop up from time to time that is just way higher level than you and the dialogue and the story makes it seem dire and urgent, but you have to wait a long time before you are even strong enough to take this quest. Even if you just fight simple bandits or whatever. I kinda understand why they have quests all around the world withing different level ranges, as it makes the zones relevant throughout the whole game. But it just does not flow right with the story in my opinion.
How I would have done it in this game is simple enemies like nekkers, drowners, wolves, bears and normal bandits and humans was level scaled to your level. Quest related monsters should be scaled a few levels higher than Geralt to give him a challenge, but make it so that you can still do the quest when you actually get it. Large monsters outside in the world that is not related to a quest should not be level scaled. This way you can go about the world feeling like an experienced Monster Hunter that can always stand up to any bandit or simple monster. You can also always do quests and witcher contracts at once, so that it makes sense in the story. But you can also encounter monsters in the world that are way to strong for you which means you still feel the progression of leveling up.
But for Witcher 3 I do feel that the static level on some enemies in the world does not make any sense. As in Witcher 3 you are supposed to be almost the same Geralt as before he lost his memory, so to speak, the Geralt from the books but with the experience he had in Witcher 1 and 2. This means he should have retained all his knowledge and skill to a point where he is considered one of the best swordsmen in the world. And it just makes no sense for him to be bested by a simple drowner or a simple raggedy bandit just because the enemy is at a higher level. Especially after being able to take down a Gryphon early in the game. That being said, monsters will always be a danger to Geralt, no matter how good he is. But I just don't think all enemies should have had a level higher than Geralt.
I also find it sort of annoying how there are quests that crop up from time to time that is just way higher level than you and the dialogue and the story makes it seem dire and urgent, but you have to wait a long time before you are even strong enough to take this quest. Even if you just fight simple bandits or whatever. I kinda understand why they have quests all around the world withing different level ranges, as it makes the zones relevant throughout the whole game. But it just does not flow right with the story in my opinion.
How I would have done it in this game is simple enemies like nekkers, drowners, wolves, bears and normal bandits and humans was level scaled to your level. Quest related monsters should be scaled a few levels higher than Geralt to give him a challenge, but make it so that you can still do the quest when you actually get it. Large monsters outside in the world that is not related to a quest should not be level scaled. This way you can go about the world feeling like an experienced Monster Hunter that can always stand up to any bandit or simple monster. You can also always do quests and witcher contracts at once, so that it makes sense in the story. But you can also encounter monsters in the world that are way to strong for you which means you still feel the progression of leveling up.
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Right, right,. And I actually prefer that system. But the problem I have with TW3 is that (A) There is a discrepancy in monster power. For example, drowners in Skellige can kill you fairly easily at high levels, whereas drowners in Velen can't. (B) The game becomes easy in the 3rd act.
The reason why I'm consdering a level scaling mod is because it fixes both problems. But it's not the ideal solution. It's just the one that's available right now.
Personally I'm just going to run my next playthrough with the No Level Requirements Mod.
I've only played the game once, so I'm not aware of the locations of super OP weapons and shit, and anything craft-able will still be very hard to make (I'm only like 5 hours in and I've got the recipe for Fate but no clue at all how to get the materials for it).
Which means that if you can get your hands on powerful weapons/armour, which will take either a lot of exploration to find niche crafting materials, or might require beating a creature that significantly out-levels you, then you'll get an edge for X amount of your playthrough, but it won't just automatically scale the entire game.
TW3's implementation of level balance is pretty damn meh, and feels more like MMO's I've played than RPG's like Morrowind, Dragon's Dogma etc. So I really don't blame anyone who is looking at level scaling as an alternative. I personally would still avoid it, and prefer to go for something like what I'm planning with the No Level Requirements Mod, but ultimately it's up to you.
What we really need is some kind of general monster/enemy balance mod. One that manually re-adjusts everything for better balance, rather than just implementing a auto-scaling system. However such a mod would not only likely require an immense amount of work, but utterly incredible knowledge of the game, every location, every quest and just take insane amounts of tuning. So it's something that if it ever even happens, it would likely be a long, long way off.
I've only played the game once, so I'm not aware of the locations of super OP weapons and shit, and anything craft-able will still be very hard to make (I'm only like 5 hours in and I've got the recipe for Fate but no clue at all how to get the materials for it).
Which means that if you can get your hands on powerful weapons/armour, which will take either a lot of exploration to find niche crafting materials, or might require beating a creature that significantly out-levels you, then you'll get an edge for X amount of your playthrough, but it won't just automatically scale the entire game.
TW3's implementation of level balance is pretty damn meh, and feels more like MMO's I've played than RPG's like Morrowind, Dragon's Dogma etc. So I really don't blame anyone who is looking at level scaling as an alternative. I personally would still avoid it, and prefer to go for something like what I'm planning with the No Level Requirements Mod, but ultimately it's up to you.
What we really need is some kind of general monster/enemy balance mod. One that manually re-adjusts everything for better balance, rather than just implementing a auto-scaling system. However such a mod would not only likely require an immense amount of work, but utterly incredible knowledge of the game, every location, every quest and just take insane amounts of tuning. So it's something that if it ever even happens, it would likely be a long, long way off.
I'd go with a strong preference with reducing the importance of levels for all of Geralt and opponent/monster, and equipment quality. Push opponents base levels up/down to set basic balance, and remove the level restrictions on equipment.
There isn't any valid reason to restrict usability for a weapon to a binary on/off linked to how "good" it is. Better weapons are reasonably *easier* to use, if not necessarily quite as effective/fast when used by a muppet as when used by a skilled user... it takes a better skillset to obtain a decent performance from a *really* poor weapon, but the difference between 'normal' and excellent is usually fairly slight.
There really isn't scope for Geralt's skills to increase by orders of magnitude in multiple areas without shattering the lore, and when there are multiple areas which overlap (as with armour, resistance, weapon damage, weapon damage multipliers from skills) then the result just flat out feels wrong.
In Witcher 1 & 2 (FCR) there was a growth of skills and equipment, which was reasonable for a 'newly' recovering amnesiac (though perhaps less reasonable for the second title)... but the maximum growth was fairly limited. (Without actually having recorded data in front of me, the recall is of a roughly 2:1 growth from start to end for 'decent' equipment (and it was possible to find odd 'non' weapons to slightly extend the range downwards if you really tried). Witcher 3 is supposed to be a fully recovered Geralt, who has been actively on the path for 6 months, with his proper equipment and all skills.... so where does the 20+ times damage ability and 20+ times survivability come from???
There isn't any valid reason to restrict usability for a weapon to a binary on/off linked to how "good" it is. Better weapons are reasonably *easier* to use, if not necessarily quite as effective/fast when used by a muppet as when used by a skilled user... it takes a better skillset to obtain a decent performance from a *really* poor weapon, but the difference between 'normal' and excellent is usually fairly slight.
There really isn't scope for Geralt's skills to increase by orders of magnitude in multiple areas without shattering the lore, and when there are multiple areas which overlap (as with armour, resistance, weapon damage, weapon damage multipliers from skills) then the result just flat out feels wrong.
In Witcher 1 & 2 (FCR) there was a growth of skills and equipment, which was reasonable for a 'newly' recovering amnesiac (though perhaps less reasonable for the second title)... but the maximum growth was fairly limited. (Without actually having recorded data in front of me, the recall is of a roughly 2:1 growth from start to end for 'decent' equipment (and it was possible to find odd 'non' weapons to slightly extend the range downwards if you really tried). Witcher 3 is supposed to be a fully recovered Geralt, who has been actively on the path for 6 months, with his proper equipment and all skills.... so where does the 20+ times damage ability and 20+ times survivability come from???
The problem with that is I'm a hoarder, and I typically had crafting recipes and materials for items several levels ahead of me. If I used that mod I'd just be uberpowered the entire game - unless I stopped myself from hoarding, that is (fat chance of that, btw).
Yeah... this is what the game really needs. I've been trying to think of ways they could do it, but it'd require sooooo much work. A couple ideas I've had so far is:
- Reduce the amount of health/stats you gain on level up.
- Increase the amount of skill points you get instead, so progression is tied more to skills.
- Add more crafted armor sets, like the Witcher Armor/treasure hunts.
- Give trophies combat bonuses
- Give all decotions a balance pass
Basically, it'd tie progression more to completing monster contracts and hunting down rare equipment. Horizontal progression, instead of vertical.
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If enough people are interested, I might start a community group to start kicking ideas around for how to accomplish this. I'm not modder, but I'm sure we could start pushing it on the modding community once we have a well formulated plan. I'm sure the Better Combat Enhanced guys could offer some insights as well.
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You have right on this. While I can stand with drowners that are stronger in Skellige (there is much water, maybe? dunno), the game indeed got easy.
But I think this comes because of two problems
1) Levelling up, you gain too much improvements on your statistics, make you OP
2) The level of most of the quest is not well placed. Skellige, for example, shouldn't have quests below the level 20. And the last quests in Novigrad are level 14, but they should be at least level 18. The same for the third act. Eredin is level 35, but it should be at least level 37-38.
I used that too. But because I just can't stand with the itemization, is just a mess.
I hope there will be a powerful mod kit in the future, in order to change this. You find very high level stuff when you are low levelled. It shouldn't be like this. But at the same time...without the level requirements there should be a monster guarding most of the chests, matching with the quality of the item.
For example, a level 24 mob guarding a level 24 sword.
So...you could use that sword at level 12...but first, you have to beat the monster. If you do, that is your reward.
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So if someone made a mod that reduced stat progression, how severe do you think the nerf should be? There seems to be a consensus that Witcher 3 is very difficult for the first 10 levels, moderately difficult in the teens, and becomes easy somewhere in the 20s. Do you think level 30 should become the equivalent of level 22? How would you rebalance stat progression?
I think quest/loot placement is also fixable, it'd just take an extreme amount of research. But split between enough people (and using cheats) it is certainly do-able.
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If you are going for totally new playthrough, you may want to try Better Combat Enhanced.
I hate to admit it, but I was wrong about level scaling. I always argumented against it but this game has such a poor balance and low difficulty that I was forced to try it out and changed my mind.
I tried http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/442/? out and it heavily enhanced my experience with the game.
a) It makes more sense. Geralt is a 100 years old monsterhunter. He doesn't get stronger during a the few weeks/months the game takes place.He shouldn't have problems to kill a single bandit or drowner.
b) It gives me the freedom to do whatever I want. Without level scaling, I had to do a lot of quests in Velen, then move to Novigrad and after that to Skellige. Now I can mix it . A few quests in war-ravaged Velen, followed by the calming atmosphere of the Novigrad outskirts. Furthermore it helps with the exploration and immersion. I don't have to flee anymore just because there is a skull monster in a "low level area"
b) The most important aspect is the challenge, I tried all the main variations of the mod and the one with enemies scaling to your level, while strong enemies being 6 levels above you is fantastic. A group of wolves or drowners can be dangerous if you don't watch out, but they are usually manageable.
The moment I decided to overcome my prejudices against level scaling was the quest "wandeing in the dark". I remembered the golem fight on my first playthrough.How challenging it was, how long it took me to defeat the golem. Yesterday on my 3rd playthrough, NG+ on Deatch March, the golem died in 15 seconds. The difficulty and balance in this game is frustrating. It's completely impossible to be challenged in the game without crippling yourself. Why are there even 4 difficulties if they range from no challenge to easy? (yeah I know it's subjective, but considering nexus is full of mods that make the game more difficult I'm not the only one who has that problem) Nevermind, with the mod installed I fought Nithral. It was fantastic. I defeated him first try, but I had to use all of my 10 potions, my 4 bombs and had 5% hp at the end of the fight. That's the challenge I want and expect from the highest difficulty.
I can highly recommend the level scaling mod. Common enemies like groups wolves and drowners will always scale to your level, whicb makes them manageable but still dangerous if you do are not cautious. Strong monsters and bosses (golems, leshens, grave hags etc) are always 6 (skull) levels above you, which makes them extremely challenging. You have to use all of your stuff like bombs, potions, decoctions, signs etc to defeat them. Exactly how it should be imo.
I can also recommend this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/424/?
It allows you to activate more than nine skills or activate a skill without using a skill slot.
With this two mods you get a much better experience. Geralt is a fully trained witcher and not a novice, so he should be able to parry arrows, but you wouldn't "waste" one of the 12 skills slots for it. This mod allows do "equip" the basic skills Geralt should know anyway without having to use one of the limited slots.
Still, you won't be OP. The game stays cahllenging in combination with the level scaling mod.
I tried http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/442/? out and it heavily enhanced my experience with the game.
a) It makes more sense. Geralt is a 100 years old monsterhunter. He doesn't get stronger during a the few weeks/months the game takes place.He shouldn't have problems to kill a single bandit or drowner.
b) It gives me the freedom to do whatever I want. Without level scaling, I had to do a lot of quests in Velen, then move to Novigrad and after that to Skellige. Now I can mix it . A few quests in war-ravaged Velen, followed by the calming atmosphere of the Novigrad outskirts. Furthermore it helps with the exploration and immersion. I don't have to flee anymore just because there is a skull monster in a "low level area"
b) The most important aspect is the challenge, I tried all the main variations of the mod and the one with enemies scaling to your level, while strong enemies being 6 levels above you is fantastic. A group of wolves or drowners can be dangerous if you don't watch out, but they are usually manageable.
The moment I decided to overcome my prejudices against level scaling was the quest "wandeing in the dark". I remembered the golem fight on my first playthrough.How challenging it was, how long it took me to defeat the golem. Yesterday on my 3rd playthrough, NG+ on Deatch March, the golem died in 15 seconds. The difficulty and balance in this game is frustrating. It's completely impossible to be challenged in the game without crippling yourself. Why are there even 4 difficulties if they range from no challenge to easy? (yeah I know it's subjective, but considering nexus is full of mods that make the game more difficult I'm not the only one who has that problem) Nevermind, with the mod installed I fought Nithral. It was fantastic. I defeated him first try, but I had to use all of my 10 potions, my 4 bombs and had 5% hp at the end of the fight. That's the challenge I want and expect from the highest difficulty.
I can highly recommend the level scaling mod. Common enemies like groups wolves and drowners will always scale to your level, whicb makes them manageable but still dangerous if you do are not cautious. Strong monsters and bosses (golems, leshens, grave hags etc) are always 6 (skull) levels above you, which makes them extremely challenging. You have to use all of your stuff like bombs, potions, decoctions, signs etc to defeat them. Exactly how it should be imo.
I can also recommend this mod: http://www.nexusmods.com/witcher3/mods/424/?
It allows you to activate more than nine skills or activate a skill without using a skill slot.
With this two mods you get a much better experience. Geralt is a fully trained witcher and not a novice, so he should be able to parry arrows, but you wouldn't "waste" one of the 12 skills slots for it. This mod allows do "equip" the basic skills Geralt should know anyway without having to use one of the limited slots.
Still, you won't be OP. The game stays cahllenging in combination with the level scaling mod.
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Witcher 3 is an rpg game, so I agree with everything that has been said. The game needs rebalance, it becomes too easy in the (not so much) late game. Unfortunately is a huge work
For what concerns the last post (the scryar's one), the problem is that the games have the reset of geralt power, who becomes very strong in the end of a game, and returns to be a rookie at the start of the following. Geralt knew how to dodge or parry an arrow since the start of the first game, in the other games you had to activate the ability.
It doesn't make sense, but it's an rpg series, and that's how it works. Making him op like ciri would be much more realistic, but the game won't be fun at all. All in all, I think cdpr made the right choice, but still lacks ability in balancing the late game
For what concerns the last post (the scryar's one), the problem is that the games have the reset of geralt power, who becomes very strong in the end of a game, and returns to be a rookie at the start of the following. Geralt knew how to dodge or parry an arrow since the start of the first game, in the other games you had to activate the ability.
It doesn't make sense, but it's an rpg series, and that's how it works. Making him op like ciri would be much more realistic, but the game won't be fun at all. All in all, I think cdpr made the right choice, but still lacks ability in balancing the late game
I don't know. Balancement is one of the most difficult things to do in game design, and every modification needs to be tested, It's an huge work.