... even make sense for CDPR to explore the system you described in a W3 upgrade/expansion as an option. As it certainly sounds very much like the system they'll be using in there next game. So, they're on the same page, just late to the party.
Bandits should never be a big challenge, if the books are anything to go on... normal humans can never hope to kill a Witcher, even if they outnumber him.
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It's more like developers are bad with designing a level scaling system, so mass of players thinks its bad.
It should be more complicated, based on skill builds (stats) and equipment power rate multiplied with chosen dificulty, maybe with a early\mid\late game enemy indexes. Not just pure lvl. But its gonna take moar time and money to research so devs dont bother with that, and you start to think that whole idea is bad... but, having a challenging enemy at every stage of game is much better, then narrow list of EnemyForYourLevel.
It should be more complicated, based on skill builds (stats) and equipment power rate multiplied with chosen dificulty, maybe with a early\mid\late game enemy indexes. Not just pure lvl. But its gonna take moar time and money to research so devs dont bother with that, and you start to think that whole idea is bad... but, having a challenging enemy at every stage of game is much better, then narrow list of EnemyForYourLevel.
ye but what i am saying is the skills system in TW3 makes it so a L30 bandit would still get destroyed by my build and its not broken or op. Like how do i explain this game by accident is perfect for lvl scaling because how the oils and gear works fully upgraded oil gives you 50% damage so if we had lvl scaling no enemy would be op nor easy.
Its like the game has been made for lvl scaling or maybe NG+ but they did not put it in.
+50% from oils is only actually around +10% with an end-ish game heavy investment into the sword tree. It is, as with all other sword traits an additive value to the multiplier for base damage, and is matched and exceeded by many other sources of damage increase. It may be even less important with a weaker sword than the Mastercrafted Ursine sword I used for my calculations.
A +50% damage boost is useful, but it isn't worth much more than a few additional points of base damage. (Direct comparison, the damage of a 350pt sword with superior oil is very similar for fast attacks as the damage from an non-oiled 415 pt sword). Enough to be useful. Not enough to break the game... unlike the growth from 100-500 damage for silver swords almost purely based on level requirements, and the +62 attack power coming purely from levels at end game state...
A +50% damage boost is useful, but it isn't worth much more than a few additional points of base damage. (Direct comparison, the damage of a 350pt sword with superior oil is very similar for fast attacks as the damage from an non-oiled 415 pt sword). Enough to be useful. Not enough to break the game... unlike the growth from 100-500 damage for silver swords almost purely based on level requirements, and the +62 attack power coming purely from levels at end game state...
If someone was to do a level scaling mod I'd prefer the scaling to be a maximum function. In other words, enemies scale up and never down. They're either at their programmed level or they're higher. Now, the scaling itself should probably be a fraction of Geralt's level, say 70% of it. This way if a level 20 Geralt meets a mob with a programmed level of 30, they'll still be 30, but if he meets a weak mob with a programmed level of 2, they'll scale up to 14. The level 20 player still feels powerful against a weak mob, but not OP.
If done right I think this could work really well. I just hope the redkit allows for a change like that to be done right and not like a hack job.
But level scaling will prevent this kind of situation because Wild Hunts scale as well. The point of level scaling is that the strong will stay strong and weak will stay weak.
I think level scaling is quite a plausible idea for Witcher 3, because Geralt is not supposed to be a noob getting progressively stronger, but a master witcher always. Lore wise, his combat skill does not go through a development arc. As such it is immersion breaking to find bandits presenting a greater challenge than leshens or griffins simply because the bandits have a higher level than me when I ran into them.
Some people just forget that his game, by design choise, is an RPG, and NOT an action game. Sure lore wise, Geralt is the best swordman in the world, so to be faithfull, you should start at something like level 30. You can make an argument that the pre determined character of Geralt is not suitable for an RPG, but nevertheless, CDPR decided to make these games an RPG from day 1, and personally i am glad. So yeah, inconsistencies with the lore will happen in an RPG enviroment, but, at least in my opinion, the game is far more interesting as an RPG.
No on topic. Level scaling sucks. SUCKS. SUCKS so much i can not even put it in a proper sentence. It sucks so much that i have nightmares. The problem is in TW3 is the lack of difficult/challenging combat towrads the end game(maybe mid game even), and NOT the lack of level scaling. The next problem is quen. If they change quen to absorb like 25% of the damage, and abolish the broken second form, i bet my ass that a good 80% of the complainers about the game being so easy(which it can be), will beg for mercy and complain cause the game is too hard.
THe skyrim comparison is way off. Scaling or no scaling, in skyrim you can be SO freaking OP it's not funny. I still remember getting 100% spell absorbtion, resulting on every magic attack in the game, including dragon fire, and dragon priest attacks(basically the toughest enemies in the game)to deal ZERO damage to me, and regenerate my mana instead. LOL. 400% Igni sign intensity with fully upgraded quen and axii feels totally balanced compared to that.
No on topic. Level scaling sucks. SUCKS. SUCKS so much i can not even put it in a proper sentence. It sucks so much that i have nightmares. The problem is in TW3 is the lack of difficult/challenging combat towrads the end game(maybe mid game even), and NOT the lack of level scaling. The next problem is quen. If they change quen to absorb like 25% of the damage, and abolish the broken second form, i bet my ass that a good 80% of the complainers about the game being so easy(which it can be), will beg for mercy and complain cause the game is too hard.
THe skyrim comparison is way off. Scaling or no scaling, in skyrim you can be SO freaking OP it's not funny. I still remember getting 100% spell absorbtion, resulting on every magic attack in the game, including dragon fire, and dragon priest attacks(basically the toughest enemies in the game)to deal ZERO damage to me, and regenerate my mana instead. LOL. 400% Igni sign intensity with fully upgraded quen and axii feels totally balanced compared to that.
I'm not a fan of level scaling by any means, but taking a step back from my personal desires, what CPDR have done is actually very clever. It ensures that every player who has finished the game has done so within a fairly tight level range, and thus gives them the chance to make expansions that are tailored to the "post-game" player, in starting at level 35-36, and progressing onwards from there.
Which thy apparently will not do, though, since the expansions will be set before the ending of the game... personally, I see nothing clever about the leveling system, it feels totally random and unbalanced.
Which is probably the only main issue with the game. Most problems of over leveling, Death March becoming a cake walk from level 16 onward and cool gear not available before end game, would be avoided if there was no XP/Levels at all.
Besides, the game is so story driven that I really never feel like grinding for anything. I still do quests that are far below my level for the pleasure of doing them, although I wish there were more challenging. I just wish that a ng+ of an expension will come allowing to play the game with no XP/Level at all.
Level scaling would be a problem far worse than the "issue" it's supposed to solve.
Hell, if anything, I'd strongly argue to get rid of that little scaling already in the game (the one about random loot, which I think it's awful and harms itemization badly in the long run).
On the other hand, one thing I already argued for in the past would be the idea of getting rid of "levels" entirely.
For how this game works, I don't think levels add anything meaningful to the progression, they just insert in the game some artificial sense of growth at expenses of internal coherence (i.e. "Why are these street thugs 15 levels higher than the scary golem I fought twenty hours ago?" etc).
I'd make the game completely level-less, letting just unlocked talents (through places of power or even introducing new mechanics, like a drop item that adds a talent point), mutagens and better equipment as ways to increase in power over time, WITHOUT basic stats increasing at every level up and without arbitrary level checks determining what you can reliably hit and what not.
I want to stress that this hypothetical system wouldn't be intended as "You can easily beat every enemy from the get go", it would just tune down the growth in power for both the hero and the enemies, making progression more subtle. You could (and should) still have plenty of enemies that are far too tough to handle at the beginning.
Hell, if anything, I'd strongly argue to get rid of that little scaling already in the game (the one about random loot, which I think it's awful and harms itemization badly in the long run).
On the other hand, one thing I already argued for in the past would be the idea of getting rid of "levels" entirely.
For how this game works, I don't think levels add anything meaningful to the progression, they just insert in the game some artificial sense of growth at expenses of internal coherence (i.e. "Why are these street thugs 15 levels higher than the scary golem I fought twenty hours ago?" etc).
I'd make the game completely level-less, letting just unlocked talents (through places of power or even introducing new mechanics, like a drop item that adds a talent point), mutagens and better equipment as ways to increase in power over time, WITHOUT basic stats increasing at every level up and without arbitrary level checks determining what you can reliably hit and what not.
I want to stress that this hypothetical system wouldn't be intended as "You can easily beat every enemy from the get go", it would just tune down the growth in power for both the hero and the enemies, making progression more subtle. You could (and should) still have plenty of enemies that are far too tough to handle at the beginning.
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Level scaling completely kills any sense of consistence of the world. Low-level encounters are designed to be in places where it makes sense for the opponents to be weak (and vice versa). It's absolutely ridiculous to have a sorry band of half-naked riff-raffs in a scum district suddenly become epic fighters. Also, since it was mentioned, Elder Scrolls' learn-by-doing is an atrocious, rail-roading, excruciatingly boring system. Please don't bring it up again.
And while we are at it, it seems that currently there's some explicit level-based damage scaling, am I right? I remember I hit certain enemies for a lot less damage when the outleveled me a lot than when I'm more or less their level, and I'm pretty sure my damage throughput hasn't gone up that dramatically. I remember in Divinity 2 they brought it to an extreme, and you could barely scratch enemies that were only a handful of levels higher than you.
And while we are at it, it seems that currently there's some explicit level-based damage scaling, am I right? I remember I hit certain enemies for a lot less damage when the outleveled me a lot than when I'm more or less their level, and I'm pretty sure my damage throughput hasn't gone up that dramatically. I remember in Divinity 2 they brought it to an extreme, and you could barely scratch enemies that were only a handful of levels higher than you.
Yeah, it seems to work like in some MMOs as WoW, where if you are out-leveled enough all you'll do are "glancing blows" that inflict little-to-no-damage.
Not just that, but also secondary effects and status of your bombs have less chances to trigger and/or last a LOT less.
You can easily notice this system is in place when you have, for instance, an enemy red that outlevels you by, say, four levels, then you make just ONE level up and as soon as he appears as green you'll start to do a lot more damage to him, even when your DPS should be essentially the same as before.
Not a fan of this system, frankly, as I pointed in my previous reply.
)))you made me laugh.
how can you defeat anything that one-shots you at lvl 2 where you don't even have a strong queen sign.
lvling seems good to me. I like the progression.
I know ideally I should be a big badass and kick everything to ashes - since the story starts from the last withcer game, where you were badass, but then it would be like you will do only some quests for the story, get a few items and that's it. you will not feel the need to make every quest, explore every piece of the world and so on.
what does not fell right to me is that you can get above lvl 30 and get ability points that are useless because you can not activate them. sure you can switch between them as you need, but you can do that with the potion also. so basically if i lvl above 30-32 it's useless.
Did you even read the post? You can't defet everything at level 2... because it has no enemy scaling like OP is demanding.... I am defending this system over other systems with enemy scaling
you made me laugh.
how can you defeat anything that one-shots you at lvl 2 where you don't even have a strong queen sign.