Life paths

[Vincentdante]

Life paths

One of my favorite parts of building a character in 2020 is the uncertainty that comes with the life path system. The one thing that is completely out of the players control as fate screws over (or rewards) your brand spanking new character before the story even begins. In my old games I would ask my players to use an expanded life path system to enhance that uncertainty.

This is a system I really hope to see in 2077, so some starting characters might be missing a limb or two while others might have some extra eurobucks, but don't show your face on the other side of town again because we all know how you got that money. Either way I think it would make new characters very interesting from both an RP perspective and a system perspective.

What does the forums think about the system in general? Is it something you would like to see return as well?

 

[reidyboy102998]

That would be pretty cool. I'd like to see it make a comeback, but then again never played the pen and paper game.

 

[TheMurkWhoLurks]

The problem with the lifepath system was that if you went in with an idea for a character, it might well change in ways you don't want it to. Why does your corp manager now know Kung Fu, despite his busy schedule and lack of a need to learn? Why does your asexual character go on dates? Why would your staunchly anti-Nomad character befriend a Nomad pack?

And if you don't go in with a set idea, you still have to fill in a lot of information, so it's not really easier than just creating a character you'd actually want to play, as opposed to a randomly generated one.

A better implementation of the lifepath would be to broaden it, with 15-20 options per slot instead of 10, and let you choose them. This would deter a lot of randomness (A corp who grew up on the street? A Nomad with wealthy parents?) while allowing parts of your past come into play.

 

[Vincentdante]

The problem with the lifepath system was that if you went in with an idea for a character, it might well change in ways you don't want it to. Why does your corp manager now know Kung Fu, despite his busy schedule and lack of a need to learn? Why does your asexual character go on dates? Why would your staunchly anti-Nomad character befriend a Nomad pack?

And if you don't go in with a set idea, you still have to fill in a lot of information, so it's not really easier than just creating a character you'd actually want to play, as opposed to a randomly generated one.

A better implementation of the lifepath would be to broaden it, with 15-20 options per slot instead of 10, and let you choose them. This would deter a lot of randomness (A corp who grew up on the street? A Nomad with wealthy parents?) while allowing parts of your past come into play.

Fair enough I guess you're not a fan, but I will say you can easily head cannon an answer for all of those examples. Your corp manager might have learned kung-fu as a hobby in his spare time, your asexual character might have been asked out on a date and thought "sure why not? Let's see what it's like" and your anti-nomad guy might have gotten in and befriended a pack of Nomads to learn how they operate.

And as I said it's the randomness which is what I like about it so I wouldn't want to get rid of it with that solution although I agree a broadened lifepath with more options is always better. A wealthy kid might have been disowned by his parents and became a Nomad, or some poor street urchin might have gotten lucky and landed a job as an intern and worked his way up. It's all head cannon and I didn't even put much thought into those work arounds, you can make some interesting character backgrounds if you work with the life path I think.

 

[lord_blex]

I have no experience with the system, but my short opinion is: if I get to make my own character, don't make decisions for me, before I even start the game. if I can choose a backstory I don't mind if they expand on that a bit, but I don't want complete randomness. starting without a limb or already having pissed off a faction sounds way too much for me.

 

[blank_redge]

I have no experience with the system, but my short opinion is: if I get to make my own character, don't make decisions for me, before I even start the game. if I can choose a backstory I don't mind if they expand on that a bit, but I don't want complete randomness. starting without a limb or already having pissed off a faction sounds way too much for me.

*nods*

I can definitely see how it wouldn't be for everyone.

Personally, I'd like to see it included, but I'd like to see it as an option.

 

[Claylex]

starting without a limb or already having pissed off a faction sounds way too much for me.

Yes please.

I'm okay with some life-path stuff, but I don't want to start with augmentations yet.

I want to earn it.

---------- Updated at 07:49 PM ----------

I would say yes to the life-path system but like what Murk said not too random please.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Absolutely yes. The number of different categories to roll/choose from might have to be trimmed down a bit for every choice to remain relevant (i.e. not having to guess which ones matter and which ones are just for the players flavor), but the Lifepath system should definitely be there; and be such that it prevents a preset protagonist.

And obviously implemented so that you can (and sometimes have to) express the kind of character you've made accordingly in dialog - and why not in actions too at places - and have it matter in the gameplay/narrative at least to some degree for better or worse.

It would also be nice if the player could roll a completely random lifepath if he wants to.

 

[Calistarius]

I voted yes... because some of my favorit pnp RPG's include things like this to various degrees (like 3-4 out of my top five favorit pnp RPG's has it, my nr1 favorit has it, and a few more outside of the top five has it as well), where part of your characters backstory is out of your hands (unless the GM allowes you to change/re-roll some due to "not fitting for my/your character" etc).

I really like it, almost love it, because to me it compleatly builds the character in a way that I like... and by puzzling it all together "due to X thing happening it lead to Y thing, which lead to Z, and that is why my character is like he is"-kind of a thing, it gives me a great idea for things for my character... who the character is, what might or might not motivate them, stories from their past, past acheivements, items they have, etc.

It's not like I can not do things like this, imagin and construct their backstory, with pnp RPG's which does not have simmilar types of systems like the Life Path thing... my nr 2 favorit pnp RPG does not have it after all (part of the reason it is nr 2 though is due to nostalgia, since it was the pnp rpg which I started on). But most of the time in pnp RPG's which does not include it, the backstory often feels extreamly... "constructed"... or something like that... it does not feel natural or something, like it's a real persons backstory or something. I mean sure, I have had characters in pnp RPG's like this which had a backstory that felt "real" and all (my alltime favorit pnp RPG character which I have made and played, where I feel I managed to construct somehting good backstory anc characterwise, comes from a game (my 2nd favorit game that I mentioned above) without life path things... it just so happends to also be my first ever pnp RPG character as well)... but those characters where extreamly few in numbers, maybe a handfull or so of them since 1996 (oh yeah... hmmm... I have been playing pnp rpg's for 20 years... and 6 months... now! ).

Where as when it came to characters, that I have created in pnp RPG's which did include something like a life path kind of a thing, here almost every single character has been in one way or another memorable (not that I actually remember all of them... maybe 2 handfulls or so). On top of that, as I mentioned above, these characters feel "real"... feel like real people, with real personalities, with real backstorys, with real lives... they basicly feel... well... real... not constructed or something. So yeah... I would love for there to be a life path system in Cyberpunk 2077.


However... even though I love systems like this in pnp RPG's, and even though I would love to have a system like that in Cyberpunk 2077... I will never use it the same way in a computer game as I would in a pnp RPG game. Because where I do accept the random nature of life path systems in pnp RPG's, and I do to some extent accept the results of the rolls made there, good or bad ones... In a PC game though? Not as much. If a PC game did include random background stuff when you created your character, and there was no possible way to your self pick the things you want in the games systems... then I probably would... no... not probably... I would continue to re-roll the character over, and over, and over again... untill I got what I wanted fo my character.

I mean just take Baldur's Gate for example... where your characters stats... or rather the numbers of points you had to put on your stats (strength, intelligence, etc)... is random. From the first moment I played that game back in the day, to every single time I have played the game over the years... I would spend a huge amount (we are talking an hour easy, sometimes even more, depending on circumstances) of time on just sitting there constantly re-rolling the dice for how many points you had to buy your stats. I do belive you could save one roll that you could pick again at a later time... so I would save every single roll which was higher then the previous one, untill I felt I had reached close to a "maximum" amount of points (not neccesarily the actual max, but a number of points I was ok with "lowering my self" to taking)... but man... if I happend to roll a really high number, and then accidentally pressing roll again due to not paying attention, which made me aware of that you could get that high of a number... then I would continue to roll the dices again untill I got that number again.

So yeah... even if CDPR included this kind of randomness to the character creation system for CP2077... I would totally spam the character creation thing untill I got what I wanted... no matter if it took me an hour or two to do it... add that to how much time I will spend on creating my characters face and looks (in games like Skyrim, or the new Fallout games, or the now defunct City of Heroes mmo, etc, that can take me hours... )... man... I would be looking at a minimum of 1 hour... if not... 6... or something... just to create my character. XD

In PC/Console games I just want things to be exacly how I want them to be... and I will go out of my way, and spend the hours it takes, to get what I want (by not "cheating" that is... and yeah I know that constantly rerolling is cheating really... but the "cheating" I am refering to here is the one where I would go into the code of the game and basicly give me what I want that way... that is something I will not do... then I rather spend the hours it takes to re-roll things to get it). So I guess the only type of life path system that would work better for me, in a PC/Console game, would probably be one where you have X numbers of points to buy background stuff for, and each type of background stuff costs different amounts of points due to how good they are, and you can choiced to pick negative background stuff which will give you back X amount of points to be used for the good stuff. This would be the only type of life path type of system that would drasticly reduce the amount of time I spent on creating my character's stats and background... but even here it would probably take me longer then most people, because I like to puzzle together the "perfect" character for me, so I will constantly go back and forth with the stuff untill it feels "right" to me. But, it will potentually take less time to do it this way, then constantly hitting re-roll on the character (the time the re-roll takes can varie drasticly though, due to sheer luck/unluck). XD

Which ever of these types CDPR might or might not choose does not matter to much to me... I will still have to spend a lot of time on my character creation anyway. But if I had to choice one over the other... "randomness" or "pick and choice"... then I would probably pick randomness as nr 1... because even though i would totally game that system in a pc/console game, it would still give you the oppertunity to roll a random character and just play with what you where given... even though that would be something I would close to never do... since I want what I want, and I like to play certain types of characters, and other types of characters have close to no pull or interest to me, and I like to play pc/console games a certain way when it comes to my characters as well. What that is changed depending on the genre. Knight with Sword+Shield+Heavy Armor in Fantasy. Where as in Sci-Fi I tend to go for Snipers types of characters, with a sniper rifle if possible (assault rifles will do if nothing else is available), who hacks and picks locks and what not everywhere he goes, while he is sneaking as he does it... in heavy/power armor... XD


So yeah... I want life path systems... preferabtly a random one (where some aspect are "pick and choice" of course)... but will totally accept a compleatly "pick and choice" type of one as well.

Just know that I will game the hell out of any system they put in place... because Michael wants what Michael wants, and Michael will go out of his way to get it... no matter the amount of time it might or might not take to get it. XD

 

[Claylex]

I voted yes... because some of my favorit pnp RPG's include things like this to various degrees (like 3-4 out of my top five favorit pnp RPG's has it, my nr1 favorit has it, and a few more outside of the top five has it as well), where part of your characters backstory is out of your hands (unless the GM allowes you to change/re-roll some due to "not fitting for my/your character" etc).

I really like it, almost love it, because to me it compleatly builds the character in a way that I like... and by puzzling it all together "due to X thing happening it lead to Y thing, which lead to Z, and that is why my character is like he is"-kind of a thing, it gives me a great idea for things for my character... who the character is, what might or might not motivate them, stories from their past, past acheivements, items they have, etc.

It's not like I can not do things like this, imagin and construct their backstory, with pnp RPG's which does not have simmilar types of systems like the Life Path thing... my nr 2 favorit pnp RPG does not have it after all (part of the reason it is nr 2 though is due to nostalgia, since it was the pnp rpg which I started on). But most of the time in pnp RPG's which does not include it, the backstory often feels extreamly... "constructed"... or something like that... it does not feel natural or something, like it's a real persons backstory or something. I mean sure, I have had characters in pnp RPG's like this which had a backstory that felt "real" and all (my alltime favorit pnp RPG character which I have made and played, where I feel I managed to construct somehting good backstory anc characterwise, comes from a game (my 2nd favorit game that I mentioned above) without life path things... it just so happends to also be my first ever pnp RPG character as well)... but those characters where extreamly few in numbers, maybe a handfull or so of them since 1996 (oh yeah... hmmm... I have been playing pnp rpg's for 20 years... and 6 months... now! ).

Where as when it came to characters, that I have created in pnp RPG's which did include something like a life path kind of a thing, here almost every single character has been in one way or another memorable (not that I actually remember all of them... maybe 2 handfulls or so). On top of that, as I mentioned above, these characters feel "real"... feel like real people, with real personalities, with real backstorys, with real lives... they basicly feel... well... real... not constructed or something. So yeah... I would love for there to be a life path system in Cyberpunk 2077.


However... even though I love systems like this in pnp RPG's, and even though I would love to have a system like that in Cyberpunk 2077... I will never use it the same way in a computer game as I would in a pnp RPG game. Because where I do accept the random nature of life path systems in pnp RPG's, and I do to some extent accept the results of the rolls made there, good or bad ones... In a PC game though? Not as much. If a PC game did include random background stuff when you created your character, and there was no possible way to your self pick the things you want in the games systems... then I probably would... no... not probably... I would continue to re-roll the character over, and over, and over again... untill I got what I wanted fo my character.

I mean just take Baldur's Gate for example... where your characters stats... or rather the numbers of points you had to put on your stats (strength, intelligence, etc)... is random. From the first moment I played that game back in the day, to every single time I have played the game over the years... I would spend a huge amount (we are talking an hour easy, sometimes even more, depending on circumstances) of time on just sitting there constantly re-rolling the dice for how many points you had to buy your stats. I do belive you could save one roll that you could pick again at a later time... so I would save every single roll which was higher then the previous one, untill I felt I had reached close to a "maximum" amount of points (not neccesarily the actual max, but a number of points I was ok with "lowering my self" to taking)... but man... if I happend to roll a really high number, and then accidentally pressing roll again due to not paying attention, which made me aware of that you could get that high of a number... then I would continue to roll the dices again untill I got that number again.

So yeah... even if CDPR included this kind of randomness to the character creation system for CP2077... I would totally spam the character creation thing untill I got what I wanted... no matter if it took me an hour or two to do it... add that to how much time I will spend on creating my characters face and looks (in games like Skyrim, or the new Fallout games, or the now defunct City of Heroes mmo, etc, that can take me hours... )... man... I would be looking at a minimum of 1 hour... if not... 6... or something... just to create my character. XD

In PC/Console games I just want things to be exacly how I want them to be... and I will go out of my way, and spend the hours it takes, to get what I want (by not "cheating" that is... and yeah I know that constantly rerolling is cheating really... but the "cheating" I am refering to here is the one where I would go into the code of the game and basicly give me what I want that way... that is something I will not do... then I rather spend the hours it takes to re-roll things to get it). So I guess the only type of life path system that would work better for me, in a PC/Console game, would probably be one where you have X numbers of points to buy background stuff for, and each type of background stuff costs different amounts of points due to how good they are, and you can choiced to pick negative background stuff which will give you back X amount of points to be used for the good stuff. This would be the only type of life path type of system that would drasticly reduce the amount of time I spent on creating my character's stats and background... but even here it would probably take me longer then most people, because I like to puzzle together the "perfect" character for me, so I will constantly go back and forth with the stuff untill it feels "right" to me. But, it will potentually take less time to do it this way, then constantly hitting re-roll on the character (the time the re-roll takes can varie drasticly though, due to sheer luck/unluck). XD

Which ever of these types CDPR might or might not choose does not matter to much to me... I will still have to spend a lot of time on my character creation anyway. But if I had to choice one over the other... "randomness" or "pick and choice"... then I would probably pick randomness as nr 1... because even though i would totally game that system in a pc/console game, it would still give you the oppertunity to roll a random character and just play with what you where given... even though that would be something I would close to never do... since I want what I want, and I like to play certain types of characters, and other types of characters have close to no pull or interest to me, and I like to play pc/console games a certain way when it comes to my characters as well. What that is changed depending on the genre. Knight with Sword+Shield+Heavy Armor in Fantasy. Where as in Sci-Fi I tend to go for Snipers types of characters, with a sniper rifle if possible (assault rifles will do if nothing else is available), who hacks and picks locks and what not everywhere he goes, while he is sneaking as he does it... in heavy/power armor... XD


So yeah... I want life path systems... preferabtly a random one (where some aspect are "pick and choice" of course)... but will totally accept a compleatly "pick and choice" type of one as well.

Just know that I will game the hell out of any system they put in place... because Michael wants what Michael wants, and Michael will go out of his way to get it... no matter the amount of time it might or might not take to get it. XD

Totally agree with this.

Again I'm okay with a life-path system and an option to do random rolls for stats/backstory stuff/etc but since this is a video game we're talking about, we should have the option to choose how our life-path should run.

 

[Suhiira]

That's one of the the many places a human GM will beat a PC/console game hands down. I've never had any complaints with the Lifepath system because the GMs have always said "reroll that" when some one got something totally inappropriate to their characters background or role.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Again I'm okay with a life-path system and an option to do random rolls for stats/backstory stuff/etc but since this is a video game we're talking about, we should have the option to choose how our life-path should run.

Yea, option. All's good if there're options to roll for a random character or to crafting it all manually. Shouldn't be too hard to implement. And while it's not really anything remarkably mandatory, it'd be a nice little novelty that nods towards PnP.

 

[nomotog]

Can someone explain the life path system?

When I read the name, I imagine something like the opening for systemsock 2 where you go through and pick your different assignments to build your class and give yourself some backgtound. Something like that would be cool, but it sounds like the life path system everyone is talking about is simply random. Random wouldn't be fun here. (I use to hate re-rolling stats in the old days.)

 

[Claylex]

Can someone explain the life path system?

When I read the name, I imagine something like the opening for systemsock 2 where you go through and pick your different assignments to build your class and give yourself some backgtound. Something like that would be cool, but it sounds like the life path system everyone is talking about is simply random. Random wouldn't be fun here. (I use to hate re-rolling stats in the old days.)

This is taken from the rulebook:

Lifepath is a flowchart of "plot complications", designed to help you give your Cyberpunk character an authentically dark future background. Its seven sections cover national and ethnic origins, your family, friend, enemies, personal habits and even key events on a yearly basis. It's intended primarily as a guide; if you encounter something you don't think fits the character you've envisioned, feel free to change the path as you see fit. Use the back of your Hardcopy sheet to record your Lifepath. Remember; Cyberpunk hinges on role-playing, so make use of the information in your Lifepath run. It's a guaranteed adventure generator!

 

[Suhiira]

Basically it gives you a thumbnail sketch of your characters past history.
Thus your character isn't a total "blank slate" when they start the game, they do know some people and have done something with their life besides contemplate their navel.

In PnP it also gives you the opportunity to flesh out your characters backstory. How did you meet that person? What past job led to that result?

 

[Nomad_Xenon]

It's been a part of the Cyberpunk game since it's inception, so I would be more than happy if it's also present in some form in the CP 2077 version.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Sounds great, but I wouldn't want them to spread themselves too "thin" here. Pillars of Eternity had a ton of options...background, culture, dispositions, reputations...but in the end, none of them had any real, meaningful impact.

 

[Claylex]

Sounds great, but I wouldn't want them to spread themselves too "thin" here. Pillars of Eternity had a ton of options...background, culture, dispositions, reputations...but in the end, none of them had any real, meaningful impact.

Yeah ikr?

I was so excited to build my character and it turns out non of that mattered.

Its more like "Oh you lived on this island? Heres +2 charisma"

 

[Sardukhar]

Dragon Age Origins - "I'm gonna make an Elf...and double down on the prejudice, he'll be a mage! Onwards, bigotry!" Aaaaaand.....nothing. Oh, you're a mage? Meh. You're an Elf? Meh.

Like, three times that was an issue? Very disappoint.

 

[Pug.]

Dragon Age Origins - "I'm gonna make an Elf...and double down on the prejudice, he'll be a mage! Onwards, bigotry!" Aaaaaand.....nothing. Oh, you're a mage? Meh. You're an Elf? Meh.

Like, three times that was an issue? Very disappoint.

Being a blood mage was even worse. You'd slash your wrist and squirt blood all over the place before casting a spell, then people would just shrug and go "whatevs."