Lifecoach (Open Beta's champion) shares his thoughts about Homecoming

[dhillman88]

i've played this game since the very first day it became available (the good old days of spawning tons of chorts from cow using SK boat and back when pure queensguard was awesome to play) so here's my two cents for what it's worth.

basically now the game is all about points, meaning how to gain or lose points through very simple mechanics (variants of boosts and damages). old gwent was ultimately about points too (whoever has more points in the end wins), but there are more ways to get to that end. In HC, there may be more card combos, but they all mostly revolve around boosting or damaging other cards (or units?). In old gwent, that mechanic was there, but also other things that involve trickery and deception to gain card advantage, gaining points while preparing your graveyard for a massive swing play (or pretending like you're playing that kind of deck but ends up kambi-ing everyone).

in old gwent, i found i asked myself more often "do i pass now...? what if he has that card? maybe not... shiiit", whereas now, i find myself simply looking at the hands "ok i still have 6 cards, so i can play 2 more and pass, even if i lose he'll dry pass and we'll start r3 with 10 cards again". the excitement of deceiving and being deceived went away.

also the gameplay is much slower now. activating the leader wastes precious seconds watching the animation... sometimes accidentally activating it twice if it has multiple charges. it's sometimes unclear whether he just used his leader skill on which card, or did he just pass? overall the animation is clunkier. old gwent is much faster and overall layout was cleaner. i sometimes accidentally place cards in row where they do nothing because the ability only triggers on one particular row. as of yet, i don't see any tactical reasoning behind positioning the cards and feel more like it's a hassle.

 

[Dawerick]

i sometimes accidentally place cards in row where they do nothing because the ability only triggers on one particular row. as of yet, i don't see any tactical reasoning behind positioning the cards and feel more like it's a hassle.

This issue would be easily fixable if they started using distinct icons in addition to the keywords. It would make everything so clear instantly. Just look at how they have done it in Civilization series.

 

[Pruny]

This is rather interesting. Honestly, I feel like it's still waaaay too soon to say much about Homecoming. The current game feels weird. Very weird. But not necessarily in a bad way. I've sort of started to like it already. I think think the biggest complaint is definitely the matter of CA. Removing the CA spies was a mistake. A matter where CDPR clearly bent over to casual masses who didn't bother to think about how complex and intuitive system CA spies was. CA spies have been a great for the game after they made them all 13 str. I'm gonna miss them. I know people will miss them. Especially the more hardcore players.

Ca spies were too abusale , cdpr should have removed the stupid tutors like poet,hym and made spy 14.

 

[ZenaRose]

10 Card limit must be canceled. It encourages player for mistakes and lowers the skillcap. Card advantage MUST mean a lot.
If it is necessary for the mobile version, I would rather see CDPR scrapping it altogether.

 

[sfruzz]

plays HC very little amount of time and gives it a verdict that some hmm... herd people will take as validation of their insecurities and resentment to change.

I assume he has been invited to the closed PTR, therefore he might have played the game more than the majority of us.

As for myself, I only had the time to recraft neutral and Scoia cards. I had a couple of games, so I cannot say much.
But when I read the cards ability, I found them really uninspiring. I miss the old Mulligan archetype - Mulligan, not even Swap - and the idea of Movement on 2 rows doesn't seem that great.

 

[Dawerick]

Ca spies were too abusale , cdpr should have removed the stupid tutors like poet,hym and made spy 14.

Man... My id says that I should make this into an argument but my super ego says that it's not worth it since the game has changed already. So for now we will have to agree to disagree!

 

[Howlmoth]

So, I think he's right and he's wrong.

Card Advantage needs to be a thing, but wasn't working very well in beta with spies. There was usually a round that felt unimpactful. Lots of drypassing R2.

Homecoming addressed coinflip and CA a bit with the hand limit and larger draws, but unintentionally made round 1 and 2 feel very unimpactful. The change was in the right direction, but missed a few key consequences.

I have a suggestion I'll post later that I think would keep the spirit of their changes in tact, but reinforce the importance of the longer rounds.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Second of all the Vocal minority here and on Reddit just bitch with no good arguments -

Subjective.

 

[DzyntaMokry]

he played HC for few hours and started with bad attitude, imagine playing some game if you will jump to another no matter what. HC made Gwent more complex, that for sure, its wierd that LC cant see this but well, he didnt gave this game even a chance so w/e

 

[Gen_Liu]

LC has his opinion which I respect but it doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with what he says (especially considering everything he said his based on personal preferences and not actual gameplay flaws).

About the hand limit, I admit it's poorly implemented but it's a really good and important system and I'm really happy they did it.

Basically, this system allows peoples to set up and play engine cards without being threathened of going -2 CA, which is a good thing imo.

 

[magusnigri]

I had exactly the same first impression lifecoach had on the launch day.

Then I played the game and once the disconfort from having everything changed passed I really saw everything with other eyes.

The card advantage change was what striked me hard in the begging, but once u adapt to it u see that its still there, its just harder to get, and the game dispite apearences sugested by the generalization of some cards have become a lot more complex. The game nows as it stays requires a lot more of skill, but its not something u will see in the first impression.

I can bet LC will change its mind as I have, in my humble oppinion the biggest mistake of CDPR was introducing this all at once after 6 months, if it had been introduced little by little the impact of the changes would be drasticaly lower on the expectation of people and we would have a lot more positive coments.

Truth is, the game is inexplicably better then it has ever been but we all expected so mutch from the game we love that its get hard to agree.

Sory for my bad english.

 

[Archpriest]

I assume he has been invited to the closed PTR, therefore he might have played the game more than the majority of us.

As for myself, I only had the time to recraft neutral and Scoia cards. I had a couple of games, so I cannot say much.
But when I read the cards ability, I found them really uninspiring. I miss the old Mulligan archetype - Mulligan, not even Swap - and the idea of Movement on 2 rows doesn't seem that great.

You do know that closed PTR is nothing like HC, right? Many streamers said so. Big changes were made after closed PTR.

And again, same "I miss". Nostalgia isn't a valid critique, I'm afraid. Imo, we need to give it a few months, see how it settles down and then give it a verdict.

 

[antlers]

HC takes three giant steps away from Gwent as it was in the Witcher 3 henceforth referred to as Gwent), farther than all the other changes (weather, gold immunity, cards not tied to rows) that were made in beta.

1) In Gwent, playing the cards was the whole game. Cards sometimes triggered other selections you had to make, but putting the card on the field was the primary mechanic. In HC, giving orders now seems at least as important as playing the cards themselves. This leads to the awkward End Turn button, and confusion as to why you can't end a turn if you've given orders but haven't played a card.

2) The card limit and absence of CA spies totally changes the card advantage game and also mulliganing-- since in a losing round you get "free" mulligans (in effect) to get to seven cards before you pass.

3) Two rows instead of three changes everything. SIngle-row effects are relatively stronger; all-row effects are relatively weaker; strict limit on how many cards you can play in a round.

Since I liked Gwent, I am disconcerted by these features of HC. I played a lot of Gwent and the cards *look* the same, so I make mistakes in HC just because all my instincts are wrong.

My plan is just to play Thronebreaker, where the card game is essentially HC, to the end. By that time I hope to have "unlearned" the Gwent I know. Then I can try to appreciate multi-player Thronebreaker for what it is, and see if it is a game I would like.

 

[flyhy]

There is a vocal minority here and honestly it's the same people who have been complaining since before midwinter. The moment anything changes they declare it as a failure. HC hasn't been out for more than a couple of days and they think they have it all figured out as a mistake. Arrogant and full of themselves and their own hasty opinion.
Get off the ship.

I can say the same for the vocal minority here who has already claimed HC to be a success just by playing for a couple of days. No actually they just decided to like it before it even launched. Absolutely foolish and full of themselves and their own complacent opinion.
Already got off the ship, so don't worry. However, SURPRISE! I can still speak.

P.S. Seriously. Where are the moderators censoring these outrageous accusations? They were doing a pretty good job on other threads to shut them down.

 

[MystereSC]

yea, on the internet its very hard for some people to have a discussion without getting dismissive or snide. Just ignore it and dont let yourself get triggered.
And nobody should use what they interprete as the public opinion (or vocal minority for that matter) for their arguments. A lot of threads both here , on reddit or any platform for any topic for that matter are noihing but echo chambers because people of the same opinion tend to respond more, everybody likes to be confirmed. But in the end nobody besides CDPR has any reliable data on actual feedback. Only your opinion counts.

I watched some of Lifecoach's streams and he's a very knowledgeable and skilled player (of old Gwent). He is pretty biased in this resume. Which is okay. I can understand, he moved on and is putting his energy now elsewhere (Artifact, i guess?).

I paused playing Gwent for five months or so and while my initial impression about HC was also a little underwhelmed i will take the current state into context of a (only) six month time of rework. They are starting at point zero again and built what i view as a solid foundation for more to come.
I am sure they will add a lot of new mechanics over the game's lifespan while hopefully trying to avoid the power creep.

Armor as a mechanic is in Thronebreaker but its currently missing in Homecoming, maybe they were running out of time? Again, its a six months development and i am pretty sure they had to work their asses off for it. There was no perfect state of Gwent, not now nor pre-Midwinter. With the experience of closed and open beta they now start with a reformed team and a fresh slate. If we want Gwent to be enjoyable for everyone in the long term, we just can't be so premature and impetuous with our opinions (both pro and con) but help with constructive, practical critique.

 

[flyhy]

I am gonna say this one ... last ... time.

You cannot deny HC is significantly and fundamentally different from Gwent beta.

I don’t hate people who like HC nor the fact that there are people who like HC. Frankly, I can’t bring myself to care about if he likes a banana over an apple. That being said, it should be also okay for people who hate HC.

Many including myself loved Gwent for the ability to control your hand by utilizing tutors: the possibility to read your opponent’s cards by the leader and the first card that was played due to well defined archetypes and faction identities: the capability to plan ahead beyond cards that were drawn since it was less draw rng dependent that increased the chance to obtain a specific card through a tutor: the ability to utilize the spy or play around your opponent’s spy to your advantage since it was a solid silver card ... etc. etc.

I had a match against a Nekker deck with a mid range semi movement (a dwarf deck with mercenaries.) I won the game cuz I was able to timely interrupt my opponent’s slyzard by moving it to another row and prevent it from eating nekkers. That was one of my best victories. Not that I generally had a good hand to counter the deck but I was able to control my cards and to plan ahead.

All that is gone. Almost everything many loved about Gwent beta does not exist, (especially in my case that hundreds of dollars spent to support a game that got slaughtered into oblivion,) so you better believe that the OUTRAGE is REAL, RAW, and GENUINE.

Also, rows mattered in Gwent beta (especially before the winter update.) They mattered due to weather movement which I thought was what separated Gwent from all other card games as unique and outstanding. Right now, the significance of a row goes as far as a reading on row functions such as reach and row 1 this or row 2 that. Just less enticing and less exciting.

It’s a matter of preference now. You like Arena style Gwent with generic cards and I don’t. You thought rows useless and I thought different.

There will be annoying problems surfacing from HC in next 2 weeks or so ... naturally. After all, HC is an untested release. And I am happy to say I am done.

 

[Nyanko73]

I personally hate Arena but I don't mind if people like it or not. It's just an aspect of the game I will never touch upon myself.

I started playing gwent two years ago when the beta came out. I felt it was rather a so so game at the time. Then I got really disappointed about the gold cards being targettable to the point I literally stopped playing. It wasn't gwent anymore for me.

But I must say, since HC came out, my interest has raised high, even higher than before. The game is really enjoyable as it is now with 30 minutes long matches of which the outcome is never certain until the last minute. The power balance is tighter and the suspense is better than it ever was.

 

[scorba]

I am gonna say this one ... last ... time.

You cannot deny HC is significantly and fundamentally different from Gwent beta.

it really is not that different. it is just not.

you will be able to "predict" archetypes, once some time has passed and archetypes (netdecks if you like) are more common.

until then, some of us do like if you can't just predict a deck at first sight.

rows matter just as much when there's 2 of them as when there's three. weather is still a thing.

the one thing you're right about is that most cards don't look that imaginative. I actually chalk it up to "they want to keep it simple for the base set and will experiment in expansions".

 

[Esmer]

I mostly agree with LC. Gwent HC feels like a totally different game, and most of the skill based decisions are gone.

1. One of the most critical skills in old Gwent was knowing when to pass to gain CA or run your opponent of resources (tempo, engines, control - depending on the deck he's playing). In HC you play the first round until you have 5 cards and then check if you can win the round. If you can't, you pass. In round 2, the winner of round 1 generally passes.

2. Homecoming doesn't have a lot of tutors, so it's almost impossible to go through your whole deck. But gold cards generally provide more points than bronze ones, so drawing them automatically gives you an advantage. Given lower number of mulligans (there were 5 mulligans in old Gwent, how many leaders have that much now?), and no blacklisting mechanics, drawing gold cards is very important.

3. Drawing 3 cards each round killed many archetypes and made others stronger.

4. Despite having provisions, deckbuilding feels the same: 165 food is just enough to take 4 legendary golds, 6 epic golds and 15 bronzes. Sure, you can take more than 10 golds by playing only epics, but there's simply not enough cards to support your archetype in this case.

5. Synergies and combos feel very clunky. Generally, a card works great only with 2-3 other cards. This leads us to #2 and drawing your better cards.

6. Many cards can be game winning unless an opponent has an answer. You know, cards like Imlerith: Sabbath in beta, which was considered badly designed by many players. Now there's much more cards like that. This makes damage, locks and artifact removal more important, but you simply can't have all the answers in one deck. Well, theoretically you can, but that means you sacrifice engines for control, and will lose to point slam (or some RNG decks like new horribly designed reveal).

***

One of the best features of old Gwent was the fact that you can beat any deck with any deck (with very few exceptions like the aforementioned Imlerith: Sabbath when you don't have an answer). Now it's gone.

 

[boblegoute]

Watch lifecoach last video on Yt, he gets bored on his part as we