like vs hate the lodge of Sorceresses ( game and the books series ) SPOILERS !

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like vs hate the lodge of Sorceresses ( game and the books series ) SPOILERS !

am just went to know you guys here which Sorceresses are you most looking forward to meeting in The Witcher 3?


i like Philippa Eilhart and well many reason man ( i think if am say here is gonna be a lot of page
)

i like the lodge and they intention was good enough to make me vote


the last one don know until TW3


well what about you gurs like vs hate the lodge ? well what do you thinking
 
Speaking as a non-book reader.

- Philippa Eilhart no question, I love her. Like a lot. She's one of my favorite fictional characters ever in fact, with masterful VA (that voice sigh).

- I like the Lodge. In fact out of all factions, theirs is the vision I agree with the most.

- I'll see in TW3, as it is possible, if we have the option and I get convinced, that I might side with Nilfgaard.
 
I do not consider Yen a Lodge member. So it does not concern her.

If I have to choose, it is Philippa. She is the best than any other by the mile. If I can pick several of them, I would add Francesca, Sile, and Fringilla. Could you change a poll to include multiple choices in the first one?

Love them, but it won't stop me from killing them if necessary.

Sleep with them (hopefully with one at a time), then may be kill them, depending on a situation. Does it make me a monster, or just a very practical guy?
 
I am ambivalent about the Lodge, but I don't think Geralt should kill them or anything without reason; as it stands right now, I can't think of any reason for why Geralt should dislike, hate or whatever this party. Disregarding its politics, the reason I am ambivalent about the Lodge is because I don't trust its people. So yeah, that's why I only like one of its members, Triss :p
 
I admire Philippa Eilhart, but I do not like her, not one little bit. The reason she is an awesome character is she has concentrated all of her formidable talents into the pursuit of vicious ends without even a semblance of recognizable human morality or emotion.

The Lodge as a body had become the tool of Philippa and S
 
GuyN said:
I admire Philippa Eilhart, but I do not like her, not one little bit. The reason she is an awesome character is she has concentrated all of her formidable talents into the pursuit of vicious ends without even a semblance of recognizable human morality or emotion.

The Lodge as a body had become the tool of Philippa and S
 
GuyN said:
I did not know Carthia van Canten ("Cantarella") was a sorceress or Lodge member. She is a courtesan and was a confederate of the late Assire var Anahid, but no magician. Her ability to charm state secrets out of the Nilfgaardian court is entirely natural.
As I understand, Carthia was a student of magic, Assire was her tutor, and she have sent her on a "special" mission. One time Cantarella asked Assire:
GuyN said:
"Do I have to play the role of the silly lover for a long time? I would like to go back to school, to devote myself to studying."
As far as I know, she is not a Lodge member, but I would not be supprised if she'd become one...
 
Anisa: Please, can you change that poll a little bit?
"which Sorceresses you like and why you like them" ... question itself gives a chance to choose more asnwers, but you chosed bad variation of poll

"if you are witcher what do you do in the next game"
One more answer - help them. Kill or make love to them are not only choices :D I'd like to help them (so I chosed sex :D in poll).

King of Phoenix - you are my man :)

____________________________

Lodge is the best side for me. Especially if I know something about Henselt, Emhyr, Radovid, Scoia'tael, Order of Rose, nobles and others.
Philippa is nice person, even when she is presented like very bad - I cannot understant, why acts of Lodge (sorceresses) are somehow worse than acts of others.
Henselt - agressor, proud idiot, killer, rapist, but still a "king" for someone, so if he do the same acts like sorceresses, he is somehow better?
When Philippa, for example, used Saskia, that is something really bad in the world filled with cospiracy? What do you think Henselt, Emhyr or others would do with dragon? How many thousands of innocent people would be killed with him (her)? Sheala used him only once, when she was desperate, how would meeting in Loc Muinne look if someone else would have a dragon? (Small advice - look how meeting ended, that words about numbers of soldiers, which they brought on meeting. Look on their meeting in Cintra, where sorceresses had to calm them down to achieve some peace contracts.)

You could let that elf murderer (that woman fro one quest) easily go, even when she murdered some soldiers, when she tried to kill you, you can save Henselt, who did things, which I was already talking about. But you (Gearalt) are shocked by acts of Philippa?
When Philippa tried to create her own state, was that worse than endless fighting for power between kings? Or worse than 3 world wars, which was started by our Great sun? Also Radovid - little child, which cannot deal with strenght of Philippa and weakness of his father, who is now suporting group of fanatics, which you could fight against before.

For the record - Triss saved your life several times, Sheala didn't try to kill you and in the end, she gave you a chance to walk away, Philippa brought you from battlefield after lifting of curse and again - she didn't try to kill you. She also probably saved your life, when curse hit the battlefield.
And now Henselt for example - you saved his life three times, I think and then? He tried to kill you.
Emhyr? I don't want to spoil much, but he also chose death for you even when you saved his life and something more..

So if there will be a chance, I will help sorceresses as much as I'll can. They are the best side* :) We can talk about it, we can dispute over it, but that is all we can do with it ;) ..

*ok imo should be there
 
If you add Yennefer to the lodge, you could also add Ciri to them. Both had indeed a relation to the lodge, but they weren't really part of the lodge. The reason is simple, they just didn't have time for that. So their or just Yennefer's active participation in the lodge is on a minimum if at all (Yennefer got just few days, Ciri barely a day). What happened before the lodge is another thing.

Therefore i voted for Philippa. I also like the lodge and their ideas and goals, but their methods are just a little bit too extreme to be called "good", but if you compare it to the other royals, kingdoms or societies, they are just on par with them, so whatever.
 
Game player and not book reader.

I will have to pick Philippa Eilhart but not sure i like her but find her very sexy with an interesting personality.

For number 2 I picked not sure as you did not define what likes mean.

For the last one i picked don’t know until TW3 but would love the chance to sleep with them.
 
sfinxCZ said:
Anisa: Please, can you change that poll a little bit?
"which Sorceresses you like and why you like them" ... question itself gives a chance to choose more asnwers, but you chosed bad variation of poll

"if you are witcher what do you do in the next game"
One more answer - help them. Kill or make love to them are not only choices
I'd like to help them (so I chosed sex
in poll).

i also think about it too
well... what about you guy here have any suggestion
... on this if you reason is good enough i may put them into my poll so feel free to coment about it anything !!!
 
sfinxCZ said:
Also Radovid - little child, which cannot deal with strenght of Philippa and weakness of his father, who is now suporting group of fanatics, which you could fight against before.

Wowowow. I may love the Lodge and Philippa, but I also love Radovid. And Radovid dealt with Philippa and beat her, for now.

The only two factions in the North that I think are worth supporting are Radovid or the Lodge. Despite their fierce opposition, they are the only reforming modernists (each in their own way) in the North. Radovid simply represents the trend leading towards developments that happened in our own early modern period, while the Lodge would simply skip that period to establish something more international.
 
KnightofPhoenix said:
Wowowow. I may love the Lodge and Philippa, but I also love Radovid. And Radovid dealt with Philippa and beat her, for now.
Ooh, I almost forget on your previous avatar (or am I wrong?) ;)

The only two factions in the North that I think are worth supporting are Radovid or the Lodge. Despite their fierce opposition, they are the only reforming modernists (each in their own way) in the North. Radovid simply represents the trend leading towards developments that happened in our own early modern period, while the Lodge would simply skip that period to establish something more international.
I can understand your thirst for reformation, but I see imperial and Radovid's acts as too brutal. He is binded with Order of Flaming rose, that is one really bad thing - racist group reminds me that little groups of idiots, which hunted rare species like nymphs, fairies etc. They are really fanatics, we can compare them to many groups from our world (but I don't want to start dispute over old christians, KKK, etc ;) :D ).
From both sources (books and games), I see him really like little bully with big complex from his childhood, when he had to deal with Philippa's eyes on his back.


Anisa: nicely done :) ..
 
here are a new update on my poll

vivaxardas said:
If I have to choose, it is Philippa. She is the best than any other by the mile. If I can pick several of them, I would add Francesca, Sile, and Fringilla. Could you change a poll to include multiple choices in the first one?


i just change my poll to include multiple choices in the first one


the last one i add a new choices in help the lodge
and i add ciri in this poll too i think after the the Lady of the Lake she should be in this poll !!
so here the reason why i put her ( here some chapter from the Lady of the Lake for non-book reader !! )



have a nice read
( is pretty long )


Chapter Eleven
‘So,’ Philippa said, ‘all is taken care of.’




‘No,’ said Ciri.




Francesca Findabair snorted quietly. Sile de Tansarville raised her head and her expression hardened.




‘I have to think about it,’ Ciri said. ‘Meditate. Put my thoughts in order. Calmly. And when I’m done I will come back here, to Montecalvo, and come before this Lodge and discuss what has been decided.’




Sile moved her lips, as if she had noticed a bad taste in her mouth and wanted to sit it out immediately. But she remained silent.

‘I have to meet,’ continued Ciri, ‘with the witcher Geralt in the city of Rivia. I promised that I would be there and that Yennefer would accompany me. I will fulfil my promise, with or without your consent. Lady Rita, here knows that, when I go to Geralt, I can always find a hole in the wall.’

Margarita Laux-Antille nodded with a smile.

‘I need to talk to Geralt. Say goodbye to him. And tell him the truth. You should know one thing, ladies. When we left castle Stygga, leaving behind their dead and ours, I asked Geralt if it was all over, if we had won, if evil was defeated then good had prevailed. He did not answer, he just smiled a sad smile. I thought it was from fatigue and the sorrow of leaving all his friends buried under the walls. Only now I know what his smile meant. It was a sympathetic smile at the naivety of a child who believed that killing Vilgefortz and Bonhart represented the triumph of good over evil. have to try and convince Geralt that what you ladies want to do with me, differs substantially from what Vilgefortz wanted to do with his glass tube. I’ll try and explain to him the differences between castle Montecalvo and castle Stygga, although Vilgefortz thought he was doing was for the good of the world and you ladies also do for the good of the world. I know it is not going to be easy to convince as old wolf like Geralt. Geralt will say that I’m a brat and can easily be fooled into doing noble things. But I have to try. It is important that he understand it, that he accepts it. It is very important. Also for you ladies.’

‘you did not understand,’ Sile de Tansarville snapped sharply. ‘You’re still a snotty nosed girl who replaced whining with arrogance. The only thing that gives me some hope is the acumen of your mind. You learn quickly. Believe me, you will soon laugh at the stupid things you have said here. Relative to your trip to Rivia, I express my strong opposition. It is a matter of principle, to prove to you that I, Sile de Tansarville, never talk to the wind. That I can grab the necks of the rebellious. It is for your own good, to learn discipline.’

‘Therefore, let us resolve this issue,’ said Philippa Eilhart, placing her hands on the table. ‘Let each of us express our opinion. Should we allow this arrogant maid, Ciri, to travel to Rivia? To meet with the witcher, for whom there is no place in her life? Are we to allow this sentimentality, which we will soon have to rid her of? Sile is against. What about the other ladies?’

‘I am also against,’ Sabrina Glevissig announced. ‘Also as a matter of principle. The girl, I like. I like her arrogance and stubbornness, it is better than flabby softness. I have nothing against her pleading. I have no doubt that she would return - I respect her word. But the girl has dared to threaten. So let her know that threats are no to be tolerated.’

‘I’m against it,’ said Keira Metz. ‘For purely practical reasons. I also like the girl and Geralt delivered me out of the hands of danger on Thanedd. It is a sentiment that I long ago gt rid of, but I do not deny that it was pleasant to me. I could repay him this way. But will not. Because you are wrong, Sabrina. This girl is a witcheress and is trying to be smarter than us. In short, she is just trying to get away.’

‘Does anyone here,’ Yennefer said ominously, dragging her words, ‘dare doubt the word of my daughter?’

‘Be silent, Yennefer,’ Philippa hissed. ‘Do not talk, or I’ll lose patience. We have two votes against. Let’s listen to the others.’

‘I am in favour of letting her go,’ said Triss Merigold. ‘I know her and can vouch for her. I would also, if permitted, accompany her on this trip. To help, if I may, in her meditations and reflections. And with her conversation with Geralt.’

‘I also vote for her,’ Margarita said with a smile. ‘You may wonder at my motivations, ladies, but I do it for Tissaia de Vries. If Tissaia was among us she would not agree that in order to maintain the unity of the Lodge it is necessary to use coercive methods or restriction of personal freedom.’

‘I vote for her,’ said Francesca Findabair, adjusting the lace at her neckline. ‘I have many reasons, but I do not wish to explain them.’

‘I vote for her,’ said Ida Emean aep Sivney. ‘So my heart dictates.’

‘I’m against it,’ Assire var Anahid said dryly. ‘I do not decide out of lack of sympathy, antipathy or principled reasons. I fear for her life. Under the protection of the Lodge, Ciri is safe and on the route to Rivia she will be an easy target. I fear those that stole her identity and even her name, still don’t think that it’s enough.’

‘We have,’ Sabrina said sarcastically, ‘yet to know the opinion of Lady Fringilla Vigo. I guess that it is obvious. We all remember the castle Rhys-Rhune.’

‘I am grateful for the reminder,’ Fringilla cocked her head proudly. ‘I am for Ciri. To prove the admiration and affection I have for the girl. I also do it for the witcher, Geralt of Rivia, without which the girl would not be sitting here today. To save Ciri, he went to the edge of the world and fought everyone trying to prevent him - even himself. It would be shameful to deny him a meeting with his daughter.’

‘I have not heard here any shameful acts,’ Sabrina said cynically. ‘But a lot of naive sentimentality. Just such sentimentality that we want to eradicate from the girl. The results are that the scales have settled in deadlock. We have not decided anything. We need to vote again. I suggest that this time we do it secretly.’

‘Why?’

All looked at the one who spoke - at Yennefer.

‘I am still a member of the Lodge,’ said Yennefer. ‘I have not been deprived of membership, you have not put anyone else in my place, so I have the right to vote. Certainly I know how I will vote. My vote therefore pushes the scales over and settles the matter.’

‘Your insolence,’ Sabrina said, lacing her fingers together, loaded with onyx rings, ‘borders on bad taste, Yennefer.’

‘If I was in your place, madam, I would keep a discreet silence,’ Sile added gravely. ‘And be fearful of another vote, to deal with you.’

‘I voted for Ciri,’ Francesca said, ‘but you, Yennefer, I have to call to order. You ran away from the Lodge, refusing to cooperate. But you have responsibilities and obligations, debts that you have to repay, the verdict must be made. Otherwise you would not have been allowed to cross the threshold of Montecalvo.’

Yennefer grabbed Ciri, who was dying to get up and scream. Finally, without resistance, Ciri dropped back into her chair in silence. Lady Owl, suddenly rose from her seat, dominating the whole table.

‘Yennefer,’ she proclaimed loudly, ‘you are not entitled to a vote, that is clear. But I am. I have heard all the voices present. I guess, I will finally make my vote.’

‘Who do you vote, Philippa?’ Sabrina frowned.

Philippa Eilhart looked across the table. She met Ciri’s green eyes and stared at them.



***



The bottom of the pond was a multicoloured mosaic, the coloured tiles appeared to move. Sitting on the pong creating shadows were the broad leaves of water lilies hiding goldfish. The water’s surface reflected the dark eyes of a little girl, her long hair floated on the water. The girl had forgotten the whole world, laying on the edge of the pool with her little hands in the water.

She went to try and touch those gold and red fish. The fish approached her fingers and palms, curiously circling around them, but she couldn’t catch them. They remained as elusive as light and shadow, as the water itself. The dark-eyed girl fingers clutched emptiness.

‘Philippa!’

It was the most beloved voice in the world. And yet she was not a little girl now. Furthermore, she was not looking into the water. The water lilies, fish and reflection were gone.

‘Philippa!’



***

‘Philippa!’ Sile de Tansarville’s sharp voice pulled her from her reflections. ‘We are waiting.’

Through the open window cam the cold wind of spring. Philippa Eilhart shuddered. Death, she thought. Death has passed by my side/

‘This Lodge,’ she said at last in a firm voice, ‘is to decide the fate of the world. So, this Lodge must reflect the world. Here, equilibrium and wisdom does not always mean cold and selfish, calculation and vileness, and sentimentality is not always naive. On one hand, iron discipline and on the other responsibility, resistance to violence, gentleness and trust. Cool reason... And heart.’

‘I,’ she said into the silence that reigned after her introduction, ‘cast the last vote. I will take into account one more thing. An element that without balancing anything, balances everything.’

Following her gaze, everyone looked at the wall, to a mosaic of many multicolour tiles depicted the snake Uroboros, biting it’s own tail.

‘That thing,’ she continued, staring with her dark eyes at Ciri, ‘is destiny in which i, Philippa Eilhart have only begun to believe in recently, which I have only recently begun to understand. Destiny is not the way to providence or comfortable fatalism. Destiny is hope. I am full of hope that it will become what we want to happen, so I give my vote to Ciri - Child of Destiny, Child of Hope’

In the pillared hall of Montecalvo the was silence for a long time. from outside of the window came the hunting cry from a sea eagle.

‘Lady Yennefer,’ Ciri whispered. ‘It means...’

‘Come, my daughter,’ Yennefer whispered back. ‘Geralt is waiting for is and it is a long road ahead.’


for non-book reader i think if you wenting to know about they personality( the lodge and the other etc.etc.)they was so detailed in the books about philippa eilhart i think her more important event must be around these books ( Blood Of Elves , Times of Contempt ,
Baptism of Fire The Tower of the Swallow and the last one that i put above is The Lady of the Lake ( i am her bigg fan club )




sfinxCZ : thank you for you help about how to use a spoiler ( and thank to the other who try to help me too
) i use is right
 
sfinxCZ said:
Ooh, I almost forget on your previous avatar (or am I wrong?) ;)/>/>

For a very long time yes.
I've been even told I look like him haha.

I can understand your thirst for reformation, but I see imperial and Radovid's acts as too brutal. He is binded with Order of Flaming rose, that is one really bad thing - racist group reminds me that little groups of idiots, which hunted rare species like nymphs, fairies etc. They are really fanatics, we can compare them to many groups from our world (but I don't want to start dispute over old christians, KKK, etc ;)/>/> :D/>/> ).
From both sources (books and games), I see him really like little bully with big complex from his childhood, when he had to deal with Philippa's eyes on his back.

I understand and share your worry over Radovid's alliance with the Order. I see the genius behind allying with them now, but like everything in politics, what may be useful now may have negative repercussions later.

However, I believe it is possible that Radovid is aware of this and will take care of it eventually. I've always seen a parallel between him and Philip IV le Bel who was allied with the Knight Templars before turning on them. I think it's a possible outcome. After all, Radovid will not brook anyone challenging his power. If the Order challenges him, he will wipe them out.

Both Philippa and Radovid have their share of complexes and personality defects, as is everyone really.
 
As characters, they all great. As political forces, well, it is great we have staunch supporters of the Lodge, Radovid, and Nilfgaard. We'll have great discussions when TW3 is out (hopefully in 12 month, and amazon actually made a goo guess :) )

I would go along with Radovid just fine, but not with the Lodge and its aspirations. What I hate is a state where any upward mobility and status are based on some special abilities and DNA. If you are just a plain dirt human with no magical abilities, you will always be a second-class citizen, beneath every damn apprentice. This was already made in the North a quasi-racial thing, and I am sure as hell do not like any society divided along any racial (or quasi-racial) lines.

I get it. The sorceresses are fighting to preserve magic and their way of life, against encroaching of non-magic people. The state they want is an empire ruled by magic, which means ruled by those who are magic users, and those who are not will not have any say. Empire ain't just an Upper Aedirn, and they will want more. I see it similar to Teminter Imperium from DAO, and it wasn't nice empire in any way. People are right to be wary of the mages. Nilfgaard has a working system, but on the North they run amok.

Radovid's approach to this problem is commendable because he understands very well that the mages shouldn't be left free to do whatever they wanted. Whether he started the massacre, or just oppressed the Council, it happened because of his childhood dealing with Philippa. She may be great but she is not a people's person, and either did not think, or did not give a damn, how a young king would react to her actions.
 
Since the Lodge's rule would be a secret one, there would be no explicit obstacles to upward social mobility.

Yes, those who will hold the power at the very top will be an exclusive secret society, which excludes everyone including 99% of mages. But when it comes to your average day to day peasant joe or miner gimli, the social mobility that the Lodge's vision would provide would be unparalleled. The farmer can become a middle class bourgeois who doesn't have to worry about respecting the privileges of the nobility, and the miner can become a minister of state.

Of all factions in The Witcher 2, it's the Lodge / Saskia that champion social mobility the most. Imperfectly so of course, but they'd provide it certainly more than Radovid or the empire which is based on racial and cultural superiority.
 
If this new empire is ruled by magic in secret, it may be true. But I really doubt that it will be the case. Right now Saskia's state is just a foothold for them, the beginning. To be open about their final goal would be very bad. Just because the Lodge is a secret organization, does not mean they want to rule in secret. For centuries they manipulated monarchs and royal bloodlines in secret, created and destroyed alliances. But it was not enough. It seems Philippa wants not just power, but a recognition. She is probably tired of serving different kings, and of acting from the shadows. For once she wants to rule herself. As I see it, it will be the rule of the magisters, when the mages are the ruling class, and openly venerated. In this case, after a long time of submission under non-mages, they won't allow any real equality.

Well, at least it is a possible danger of such a society, and if it happens, non-mages will be helpless. In the massacre scene in TW2, two knights and two soldiers went into the house to kill a sorceress, and only two managed to come out barely standing. They killed her, sure, but she offed two fully-armored men, and the last two were lucky to be alive. With this kind of power, would the mages listen to the demands and comply, or prefer to mind-control or suppress non-magic population? I would think the latter is more probable. So, in this situation of uncertainty, even though this magic empire might be benevolent and beneficent, realistically, I wouldn't count on this.

You know, Philippa (or any of the mages) did not strike me as a kind and compassionate individual, or at least anyone who would ever care about my needs. What she demonstrated is that she used everybody as tool to reach her goal. Would I want to live in a state ruled by her? Hell, no.
 
The Lodge, while influential, was not as powerful as Philippa would want hence her ambition, as well as I believe a genuine desire to strengthen the North. This does not mean that she is looking to establish an overt mage empire. We have no evidence of such an ambition.

There is such a risk surely, but that's the case with any of the factions we have. Radovid creating whether deliberately or not a theocracy ruled by fanatics isn't that appealing to me either. The risk exists.

I would not consider Radovid or Emhyr to be kind or compassionate either, the only one who had those virtues was Saskia. In the absence of "decent" individuals who are also competent, the only thing left is the policies they push forth. Out of all factions in TW2, the Lodge had the vision and method that I agree with the most, while fully recognizing the flaws and risks that I believe are all across the board anyhow.
 
Radovid is not that stupid or weak to let fanatics control him. He'll deal with them when necessary. In general Radovid is not a kind of guy to be controlled by anyone. He may make mistakes, and be lulled into something seemingly beneficial in a short run, but detrimental in a long run, but he won't make such mistake again. He is a bit young though. Honestly, he should have killed Philipa right there, and not just ordered to gauge her eyes. Pragmatism should win over any lawfulness, otherwise such thing will return to bite him in the arse. Dead Philippa is harmless, escaped Philippa, even blind, may be a bigger problem for him personally than the invasion. I am completely with Shilard on this one - just kill 'em, and be done with it. But still Radovid is a good emperor material, and will have a good reign. If he escapes Phillipa's wraith that is.

Philippa and Co wanted a magic state, that is openly ruled by magic. Philipa mentions it in the books. That's why, I think, they wanted Ciri to marry Koviri prince. Their children will be (hopefully) the elder blood. The entire dynasty, with proper marriage arrangements, will be a dynasty of sorcerers ruling the state.
 
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