I don't disagree, however, this game, which people are having issues with did in fact release on the PC, knowing this. I am not saying I am unsympathetic to the difficulties involved with making a game on the PC, but honestly if the line is going to be,"Making games for the PC is too hard" then don't. That line of thought doesn't help with the current issues with The Witcher, and serves only as a cop out. The devs were the ones who decided to release on PC, and list system reqs, its not our fault in any way if that proved to be too difficult for the developers, which is all this line of thinking and posting is suggesting. If CDProjektRed chooses to make a game for the PC, and consumers buy it in good faith only to find out that the game is riddled with technical problems, I really don't think its CDProjektRed place to complain, especially since they profit regardless from those of us who purchased the game. As well you call in to question CDprojektRed's capability in the field they have chosen to work in professionally, which is a "slippery slope". At no point in any of my posts at least, have I ever said they are incompetent to make games in this industry, but these type of post certainly suggest/imply it may be too hard for them. I for one get very tired of hearing from a dev standpoint how "hard" it is, like the consumers foisted game development as a profession on the developers shoulders. When people pay for a product, everyone selling it knows they are going to be scrutinized and held to consumer and industry expectations and standards. Another board I visit, Age of Conan, the devs do this alot, talking about "Oh how hard it is to make an MMO", there is a phrase,"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen", it applies here. We on the forums are still giving benefit of the doubt and a chance to rectify things, and haven't just given up on CDpRojektRed, and The Witcher, at least not yet.Mobidoy said:
I think we misunderstood each other here, i am not saying that you said or did something wrong in your post, i was just adding some info to it in reply to the other post that you have quote.When i say that console and pc programming is 2 different things, i mean that if you do it for console, you can fully test it because there is only 1 possibilty as far as configuration of what it will be played on. When you program for PC, there is a lot more possibilities, and you cant just assume how it will react on every computers. Dont forget that yet, most of the problems that have been fixed were due to very poor user maintenance/driver updates of their rig !! Cheers 
And I mentioned that I am not unsympathetic to it being a different and probably greater challenge to program on the PC than a console, but that listing the challenges of developing in response to complaints and technical issues, at the very least implies that the challenge was too great for the devs. . The rest I added as my own thoughts vs several arguments that I have seen on this board, and other game development boards, about how I feel when a game dev company, or overly-sympathetic posters, start talking about how hard it is to develop games. I begin very much to lose sympathy for professionals, who when consumers have a complaint, start whining about how hard their job is, especially to the consumers who's money they either already have taken, or will gladly take in the future, for their product. I am also not disagreeing that there are some issues that can be fixed regarding end users settings, but if I can concede that, I would love it if others would concede that the issue has a greater scope than that, and also, again, How much onus is on the end user to make a game work on their system? I refer back to my point that I have installed and run many other games on my PC, of equal complexity and graphic capability to The Witcher, without any problems at all. I am not the only one who has posted this, The Witcher's technical faults are not entirely issues with the end users, and the changes many of us have made to get it to run are not 'faults' with configuration, my changing my DVD player to "PIO only" from "DMA when available" is not a bad configuration on my part to get the DVD to read, that's poor technical design, users who are using 2 different HDD's to play Witcher, one for the game, another for the page file, doesn't mean they had bad configuration, that is bad design, and the end users are finding "tricks" to make it work, and it certainly doesn't account for the people who have posted that they just downloaded a pirate or legal copy or cd crack to make it work. Just because end users can and because they want to play Witcher, will re-configure and change many settings on their PC's to make it happen, doesn't mean their original configuration was wrong.Mobidoy said:I think we misunderstood each other here, i am not saying that you said or did something wrong in your post, i was just adding some info to it in reply to the other post that you have quote.When i say that console and pc programming is 2 different things, i mean that if you do it for console, you can fully test it because there is only 1 possibilty as far as configuration of what it will be played on. When you program for PC, there is a lot more possibilities, and you cant just assume how it will react on every computers. Dont forget that yet, most of the problems that have been fixed were due to very poor user maintenance/driver updates of their rig !! Cheers
I begin very much to lose sympathy for professionals, who when consumers have a complaint, start whining about how hard their job is, especially to the consumers who's money they either already have taken, or will gladly take in the future, for their product. [/QUOTE]Can you point me where did a professional complained about how hard is job is ???
Can you point me where did a professional complained about how hard is job is ??? [/QUOTE]Mobidoy said:
This does sound like a complaint about how much harder it is to program on PC vs Console. A moderators voice in a forum has as much weight for many as if it came from the devs themselves, and that text very easily could be seen as a complaint about how much harder it is to program for a PC vs Console. And I also included "overly-sympathetic posters" in the paragraph which my quoted line of text was taken from, so that includes this from Desmasic:
Both of those quotes very much come from the angle of,"Its alot harder than you think to make a game work on the PC" and exactly what purpose does that achieve, if not to basically tell consumers to get off the devs backs about the game bugs, and have some sympathy? You add in all the stuff in both your posts and Desmasic's that seems to heavily weight the issues of The Witcher as being soundly all end user configuration problems, which I soundly disagree with, and you understand my problem. Between them I am hearing "Jeez guys its real hard to make a PC game, and its all your faults its not working anyway, quit complaining" Which for me for all the reasons I have listed in my posts, is unacceptable. To quote myself from my previous post:
Well if you consider what i say being the statement from CDPR, i am sorry.But, i am simply a player of this game that has took on me to try and help others.... I got moderators rights today, nowhere i pretend to be part of them, and if you look carefully, the only board where i am allowed to moderate is this one. If you look at the description of this board it says...Technical issues & advising forum. (This is not official technical support forum)Also the sticky called Read before you post state exactly this.First things first – This is not official technical support forum. This thread is made by users for users, however, REDs do sometimes drop by and help as much as they can. The main purpose of this thread is mutual help among users and gathering feedback by the dev team.Official The Witcher Technical Support can be found HERE.So if in any of my post i have confused you or any other member of this community in making you believe that i was a part of CDPR crew or talking in theire name, i apologize, to you, the community and CDProjekt Red Crew.
Talk about taking a thread off topic ... wowNo offence - but you may have been better advised to posta quick introduction thread so people got to know that you had volunteered to look after the boards, but had no official developer capacity ...Back on topic Really looking forward to the next patch coming out - i've made it to Act 2, but after seeing all of the houses waiting for me I am holding on for the patch before I start checking the place out ...Fantastic game and once the load/save times are reduced I personnaly will not be able to put it down.I see a few people here posting saying that they are living with the load time and everyone else is just whining (paraphrasing so forgive the generality) - you may have a point, but we all have different boredom thresholds and if an issue that has already been identified as fixable by the developers is resolved and more people enjoy the game then this is a good thing - I fail to see your point when you are simply telling people to get on with it ... that is your opinion which I respect, but it does not mean I have to adhere to your view of the world :-*
Really looking forward to the next patch coming out - i've made it to Act 2, but after seeing all of the houses waiting for me I am holding on for the patch before I start checking the place out ...Fantastic game and once the load/save times are reduced I personnaly will not be able to put it down.I see a few people here posting saying that they are living with the load time and everyone else is just whining (paraphrasing so forgive the generality) - you may have a point, but we all have different boredom thresholds and if an issue that has already been identified as fixable by the developers is resolved and more people enjoy the game then this is a good thing - I fail to see your point when you are simply telling people to get on with it ... that is your opinion which I respect, but it does not mean I have to adhere to your view of the world :-*I'm glad this issue seems to get fixed a little in the next patch. Like all others I have also noticed how the copy protection and saving takes up most of the bulk. What really ticks me off is that those precious few times when the copy protection doesn't kick in (when the loading bar actually comes up at once and my DVD drive isn't about to take off) the saving starts. As the good RPG player I am, I have already saved two seconds ago when the game decides to save again. Then when the saving doesn't kick in, the copy protection scans the drive, just to tick me off. I think I was lucky enough to have none of them once, and the loading time was good. I guess they can't do anything about the copy protection now, but at least they can remove the autosave feature.Most of us have played a computer game in our life before this and know that we have to save often.If you're scared of people complaining about losing a save and having to restart the game all over again, just put in a warning like almost all other RPGs do now. Put it in the (hopefully not so long now) loading screens like this: Remember to save often and in different slots.Just to be certain you can put in: CDProject is not responsible for any frustrations that pertain to the failure of the user to remember the above-mentioned words.Write it in pink if you really want people to read it (but then, that would take away more of the atmosphere than the long load times ).Other than that I don't have any complaints. The game is great after all. It's just too bad that so many great games have to be covered in a thick layer of unstability problems and some bad decisions.But then I have also been to many forums regarding different games. On all help pages of all those forums the same issues come up again and again.It is actually a little funny sometimes to see how some posts are actually almost completely the same on different forums. All the games have the same crashes, the same bugs and so on. And the only thing that's is different in people's complaints on one game to the next is the name of the developer.But in a way it is also sad to see the same issues come up again and again in different games made by different developers.It is also problematic that everyone have different problems with the same game, and some people have no problems at all.While Oblivion ran as smooth butter for many, it game me the blue screen of death a lot on my old computer (who outdid the requirements).Gothic 3 though never crashed on me once on my old computer, while people with dream computers couldn't get the game to even run.So in the end I guess all we can do is help each other and wait for the devs to go through the myriad of different problems and find a solution.I just hope people will still buy games like this. I still fear the day when all we have to look forward to in the gaming department is sequel number 53 to this and that football game and mindless shooter. (I'm not bashing FPS though, many of them are good, but too many games put you in the role of the allmighty american out to slay the enemy). MMORPGs will alway survive I guess but to me seeing Gandalf223 and Frodosucks running around in a RPG ruins the game experience more than a long loading time ever could. Gods, this was long. Sigh. When will I ever learn to restrain myself? Congratulations to the brave soul who managed to read to all this. Give me an answer too if you can.
).Other than that I don't have any complaints. The game is great after all. It's just too bad that so many great games have to be covered in a thick layer of unstability problems and some bad decisions.But then I have also been to many forums regarding different games. On all help pages of all those forums the same issues come up again and again.It is actually a little funny sometimes to see how some posts are actually almost completely the same on different forums. All the games have the same crashes, the same bugs and so on. And the only thing that's is different in people's complaints on one game to the next is the name of the developer.But in a way it is also sad to see the same issues come up again and again in different games made by different developers.It is also problematic that everyone have different problems with the same game, and some people have no problems at all.While Oblivion ran as smooth butter for many, it game me the blue screen of death a lot on my old computer (who outdid the requirements).Gothic 3 though never crashed on me once on my old computer, while people with dream computers couldn't get the game to even run.So in the end I guess all we can do is help each other and wait for the devs to go through the myriad of different problems and find a solution.I just hope people will still buy games like this. I still fear the day when all we have to look forward to in the gaming department is sequel number 53 to this and that football game and mindless shooter. (I'm not bashing FPS though, many of them are good, but too many games put you in the role of the allmighty american out to slay the enemy). MMORPGs will alway survive I guess but to me seeing Gandalf223 and Frodosucks running around in a RPG ruins the game experience more than a long loading time ever could. Gods, this was long. Sigh. When will I ever learn to restrain myself? Congratulations to the brave soul who managed to read to all this. Give me an answer too if you can. No worries, I still stand by what I said, and that overly sympathizing with the devs doesn't get anyone any help for the real issues of the game. I understand that you don't work for CDPR, the nature and direction of the comments still apply though. I also realize this is the unofficial technical support forum, but the devs have poked their heads in here often enough in other threads that it does mean these posts do "officially" get seen. I hope its also realized that people are posting here as a means of getting their issue addressed before they have to just give up, and return The Witcher because the technical issues are making it unplayable. This is a good bit of what my whole point was about, consumers who are taking all the extra time to make these posts, and work with "The Witcher" and CDPR to make the game work on their machines are going above and beyond what many would say is the "call of duty" to make the game work, and continue doing business with CDPR/Atari. The posters who tell those people to "quit whining" are basically asking us to just give up on The Witcher and stop doing business with CDPR in effect. If this had been done on a console for instance, and I had started playing The Witcher on the Xbox 360 for example, and was having as much trouble on there as I am currently on my PC, I would just take the game back for a refund. At least here, I am looking and hoping that a patch or a RAM upgrade can make this game work better on my PC before I have to reach that final step. As well, I would much rather speak to this Unofficial forum than Atari's official forum, sorry guys, but CDPR hasn't established a reputation good or bad with me yet, Atari USA however has, and its not good. If I was told that I had to go deal with Atari instead, even though they are the official tech support, I would wait for my 2 gig RAM that is coming on Thursday by mail, see if that helped, and if not, I will just take The Witcher back for a refund. Atari in the rest of the world might be ok, but Atari of America is one of if not the worst publishers in the market, and the fact that they are teetering on bankruptcy speaks to that. IMHO CDPR would do very well to find a different publisher, or self-publish on future games, because having Atari logos on your games in the US is a strike against you anymore.Mobidoy said:
So... arguments about development cycles aside, when is the 1.2 patch coming out?
I just wanted to post up some tests I just did. I am running Vista x64 and originally had 4 gigs of ram. However 2 gigs went bad and I have been waiting to get them replaced. So, I've been playing The Witcher with 2 gigs of RAM. Well, yesterday my RAM came in and I installed it. I thought I noticed my load times get better ( ie shorter ) . Well, I decided to make sure of it. So I tested load times between Shani's House and the Temple Quarter with both 2 gigs and 4 gigs. Results:Vista x64, E6700 @ 3.2ghz, 8800GTX, Corsair 800mhz cas 4 ram, 2x WD 150gb RAPTORS in RAID 0Test results are MAXIMUM time it took if different times occured2 gigs of RAMTemple Quarter into Shani's House: 6 secondsShani's House into Temple Quarter: 18 seconds4 gigs of RAMTemple Quarter into Shani's House: 3 secondsShani's House into Temple Quarter: 6 secondsThis clearly shows that more RAM helps tremendously. Although I'm not sure why, the game doesn't seem to be using more one way or the other if I look in task manager while it's running. Also, I know its not a good fix, especially if you are running 32bit windows since it won't all show up. Just wanted to let everyone know that it does help though.Just wanted to add the RAM usage:While in Shani's House after loading in from Temple Quarter:2gigs:900mb4gigs:921mb( As I said, only a slight difference in RAM usage even though I have MUCH better load times with 4 gigs )Dateranoth
When I just started to play the game, the loading time is quite fast(10sec to buildings and 20sec to city). But when I've played for a while, the loading time will suddenly become very slow(5min to buildings and 8min to city). When I restart the computer and play again, the loading time will become fast again. And after a while will become very slow and so on. Can anyone help me?My computer: Intel P4 3G(two processers running) 1G ram 8500GT 512ram
That's good news, if I had to wager a guess, I would say the minor speed increase is coming from the simultaneous access of the extra RAM chips. Not as significant that you have more total RAM, but some increase because you have more RAM chips that can be accessed at the same time. That would just be my guess. I also have more RAM coming today, I am hoping for a substantial performance boost, because I will be going from 1gig, which many posters indicate is a pretty poor amount of RAM for The Witcher to run with, to 3 gig. Thanks for the info.Dateranoth said:
Well, I got to looking some more and was curious about something else I noticed. Vista does the prefetching things which will "cache" commonly used files in memory. However, that memory is still available if something else needs it. So, I'm wondering if its using all that extra memory to cache the commonly used files for The Witcher. That would explain some things, but I don't know how to tell what is cached and what is not. For example: looking at my memory usage right now. I have 1 gig in use by my various open programs, and I have 3gigs that Vista is reporting as "Cached" . So, I can only wonder as to how much of that is The Witcher files. Either way, if you are running vista then more ram is definately a good thingSteelwill said:
DateranothAdd 1 more gb ram. XP alone takes up 256 MB ram to run properly (and if you have useless services and program running in background, add at least 100 mb for them).Messing around with pagefile on XP is mostly useless and best left to 'system managed' or if you DO want to tweak set it to 2 gb minimum and 4 gb max. But adding atleast 2 gb ram is a must these days for any non-casual gamer.jelf said:
Going to agree with Desmasic on this one. My extra 2 gig of RAM came today, and when I added it, putting me up to a total of 3 Gig RAM, it made all the difference. I went from load times in the order of 4-5 min on outside(big) areas, and 1-2 mins on houses and interiors, down to 20-30 seconds on big areas and 10-15 secs on interiors. Some might still think those are still long, but not me, that's perfectly reasonable load time as far as I am concerned. So I will vouch that jumping up your RAM helps this issue.desmasic said: