Lodge of Sorceresses

[HarelMor]

Lodge of Sorceresses

In the witcher 1 the Lodge of Sorceresses is a well known establishment. king radovid spoke about the lodge with geralt he seemed very understanding regarding this establishment, triss confessed about being a part of the lodge but in the witcher 2 geralt was shocked to discover that triss is part of the lodge and radovid wanted to kill them for treason. i cant understand this difference of attitude toward the lodge and how can it be that geralt forgot about it in the month or so that passed between the events of both games.

 

[StaGiors]

No he did not forget. Geralt, knew Triss was part of the Lodge. What he did not know, was that the Lodge was implicated in the assassinations. That's why he was surprised. And Triss was simply explaining to him that she was not part of the Lodge anymore, since she was not invited in the meetings. Radovid, wanted to dismantle the Lodge, because Nilfgaard managed to throw the blame on the Sorceresses. Radovid was a pretty strict King. He was later named Radovid the Stern. He would never allow the Sorceresses to control a free state and do whatever they want with Kings.

 

[Belzebutinov]

Bear in mind that Triss (and Yennefer), while members of the Lodge, have often found themselves outsiders and at odds with the Lodge because of Geralt and Ciri.

BOOK SPOILERS, GO AWAY.

Spoiler

One of the Lodge's top priorities was using Ciri to what they believed was her full potential. Geralt was never told this, because it was obvious that he would go APESHIT if he heard, so the Lodge did its best to keep him out of it. Obviously, part of their plan was using Yen and Triss in the hope that their loyalty to the Lodge and its projects would trump their loyalty to Geralt and Ciri. Unfortunately for the Lodge, both women repeatedly chose to protect Geralt and Ciri, even if it meant endangering themselves by openly opposing the Lodge.

By the time TW2 plays out, Ciri is basically an unknown element, but Geralt is still quite real, and Triss's past loyalty to Geralt is enough for the Lodge to decide to act, if not outright against her, at least without her. Triss, on her end, knows this full well, and is playing a very dangerous game by trying to both stay in the Lodge's good graces, and not betray Geralt. It's a very difficult game with high stakes, and she certainly did better than almost anyone else could have done in the same position. Sill, compromises were made. Depending on how you play Geralt out in TW2, you get the chance to prove yourself more or less understanding, which is a nice touch from CDPR. I went for the more "OK I get it" route, because I'd read the books, but there's nothing incoherent with Geralt being surprised at Triss's shady dealings with the Lodge.

 

[HarelMor]

Thank you so much for the explanation, this is what i like about those games the story is deep and interesting. if i misunderstand or miss a story element i lose important information, there are no safety rails like in most current games.

 

[Jobbert.907]

I actually think the writers sort of retconned this. The existence of the Lodge seems to be public knowledge in TW1, you can read that in the journal entry, and even people like Leuvaarden talk about them. In TW2, it is again the secret organization that it was in the books. Geralt doesn't seem to know that Triss belongs to the Lodge at the beginning of TW2 either.

 

[StaGiors]

I actually think the writers sort of retconned this. The existence of the Lodge seems to be public knowledge in TW1, you can read that in the journal entry, and even people like Leuvaarden talk about them. In TW2, it is again the secret organization that it was in the books. Geralt doesn't seem to know that Triss belongs to the Lodge at the beginning of TW2 either.

Leuvaarden wasn't just any random merchant though. The Leuvaarden's of Nilfgaard were quite high nobility. Oh and the Lodge worked with him to dislodge Salamandra, so it would make sense that he knows about it. I can't think of anyone else knowing about it, not even Azar Javed and the Grand Master.

 

[Jobbert.907]

Leuvaarden wasn't just any random merchant though. The Leuvaarden's of Nilfgaard were quite high nobility. Oh and the Lodge worked with him to dislodge Salamandra, so it would make sense that he knows about it. I can't think of anyone else knowing about it, not even Azar Javed and the Grand Master.

That's true, but that doesn't mean that they would want to willingly reveal their SECRET organization to him. Plus, Azar Javed did know about. It doesn't make sense. It says this in the journal entry: "The Lodge has significant political influence, although its activities are not entirely understood by the public." So the existence of the Lodge is public knowledge in TW1, while it is not in TW2.

 

[HarelMor]

That's true, but that doesn't mean that they would want to willingly reveal their SECRET organization to him. Plus, Azar Javed did know about. It doesn't make sense. It says this in the journal entry: "The Lodge has significant political influence, although its activities are not entirely understood by the public." So the existence of the Lodge is public knowledge in TW1, while it is not in TW2.

I forgot about that, but the witcher 1 gave me the feeling that the lodge of sorceresses is a common knowledge, if i recall correctly geralt asked triss if she really was a part of the lodge, he was surprised when she said yes this surprise might have happened due to the lodge involvement with the monarch slaying.
in the witcher 2 it seemed the none knew about the lodge except magicians and sorceress.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Yes, in TW1 it was a retcon. The Lodge was a secret organization, and I was actually surprised that in TW1 a lot of people knew about it. But in TW2 we returned to the roots, with the Lodge itself and its members being discovered by the rulers of the North.

One thing really bugs me, and I do not want CDPR to screw it up in TW3. If Shilard appears on a summit, and gives a list, Triss is on it as well, and it stands to reason she should be hunted along with Sile, Philipa, and others. Geralt gets off on assassination charges, but Triss is now officially culpable of regicides.
If Triss appears on a summit, she is off the hook and even a sort of a hero. Even though other Lodge members are hunted, Triss will be left alone.
Given that Triss is one of the main characters, this should be taken into account, and can't be discarded because of the war. I hope CDPR won't forget about this, and won't make "one size fits all" story events concerning Triss.

 

[Garrison72]

Yes, in TW1 it was a retcon. The Lodge was a secret organization, and I was actually surprised that in TW1 a lot of people knew about it. But in TW2 we returned to the roots, with the Lodge itself and its members being discovered by the rulers of the North.

One thing really bugs me, and I do not want CDPR to screw it up in TW3. If Shilard appears on a summit, and gives a list, Triss is on it as well, and it stands to reason she should be hunted along with Sile, Philipa, and others. Geralt gets off on assassination charges, but Triss is now officially culpable of regicides.
If Triss appears on a summit, she is off the hook and even a sort of a hero. Even though other Lodge members are hunted, Triss will be left alone.
Given that Triss is one of the main characters, this should be taken into account, and can't be discarded because of the war. I hope CDPR won't forget about this, and won't make "one size fits all" story events concerning Triss.

I agree with this fully. Her dealings with the lodge can't be dropped at the beginning of TW3 or I'll be seriously annoyed. It's crucial not only to her as a character but her relations with Geralt. I half expected Triss to appear in rustic, practical garb for TW3, perhaps even a bit haggard, to show she's on the run or in hiding.

 

[Varth1]

There were two lodges. One official, one secret.

 

[vivaxardas2015]

There were two lodges. One official, one secret.

"Do not multiply Lodges beyond necessity."
- Occam's razor

 

[Devils4dvocate]

I agree with this fully. Her dealings with the lodge can't be dropped at the beginning of TW3 or I'll be seriously annoyed. It's crucial not only to her as a character but her relations with Geralt. I half expected Triss to appear in rustic, practical garb for TW3, perhaps even a bit haggard, to show she's on the run or in hiding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCAgHYPtF4 3:03 So yes, she is in trouble, although we don't know if TW3 story will recognize the Triss status depending TW2 ending, as @new&improved_vivaxardas commented (to me, anyway, wouldn't be a big plot hole in the story, since even with the "heroic Triss" ending, you can easyly weave a story in which the nilfgaardian invasion makes people forget Triss' behaviour ("nah, she just one more traitous witch").

 

[andersonblue]

Even if they do decide that Triss is being hunted no matter what decision you made in The Witcher 2, as long as it properly explained and fits then I don't see a problem. This goes for all decisions in the game, not just with Triss. Sure it might seem like a 'cop-out' explaining things away with a few lines of dialogue but from a technical point of you you can't really blame them. I personally don't believe we have reached that point in gaming yet. You could literally make 2 separate games with different quests stemmed from the various decisions you made from the previous games. That will never happen.

 

[Marilith01]

Well, considering the endings in TW2, there where major differences based on your (Geralts) decisions:
If you decided for Triss (both, the Scoiatel- and the Roche-Path), then a Council of Mages was created, if you did not, the Council was not created! Triss was hunted (like other sorceresses) only if she was not present to accuse the guilty members of the Lodge. This is a major difference. Also Geralts decision to save Triss (instead of the other person, the imprisoned sorceress or the child, depending on the path) should have impact in their relationship.

If you decided for Triss, then the end was Triss and Geralt, if not, then Triss, either Roche oder the Scoiatel, and Geralt. This does not point to a parting of the two, but this can have changed in the meantime. But I would be quite disappointed, if the Council of Mages disappears from the game. It will be quite hard to have different starts for TW3, so they need to have a very good reason that decisions from TW2 do not matter in the beginning!

Why have decisions if they do not matter when the story continues? There are a lot of other decisions, and they should have an impact on the story and the setup.

I hope importing a save from TW2 is possible, and that it has impact not only in which characters are alive or dead.

 

[HarelMor]

Here is a possible reason why triss is hunted no matter the player decide at the end of the witcher 2.
The council of mages was created but it became a week council a mere shadow of its former self, only puppets of the northern kingdom monarchs.
King radovid and his followers done all thy can to persecute powerful magic users, allowing those thy can control to survive. triss merigold a well known sorceress was hunted for her powers in order to lessen her influence and prevent the rebuild of the lodge.

 

[StaGiors]

@Rhinala

No matter what the player chooses in the game, a witch hunt ensues. It is written in the books, and supported every ending in TW2. What is changing due to your choices, is The Council being restored or not. If you choose to save Triss on either path, the Council is restored, if you choose to save either Saskia or Anais, the Council is not restored. Either way Sorceresses are hunted down, due to Shilard's revelations. Triss is a Sorceress, so I think she would be hunted, no matter what, regardless of the role she had in the Lodge, and whether or not she actually revealed the Lodge's plans. If the Kings declare a Witch Hunt, you better believe that any woman in the world, that looks or thinks different, will be hunted down. Sorceress or not.

 

[HarelMor]

I haven't read any of the witcher books so it seems like i have a huge plot hole.

 

[StaGiors]

I haven't read any of the witcher books so it seems like i have a huge plot hole.

Ah, not as much as you think, the Witch Hunts were merely mentioned in the books.

You can read the small passage in the spoiler tags. Taken by the official witcher wiki: http://witcher.gamepedia.com/Encyclopaedia_Maxima_Mundi

Spoiler

Ithlina, actually Ithlinne Aegli: daughter of Aevenien, the legendary elven healer, astrologist and soothsayer, famous for her predictions and prophesies, of which Aen Ithlinnespeath, Ithlina'a Prophesy, is the best known. It has been written down many times and published in numerous forms. The prophesy enjoyed great popularity at certain moments, and the commentaries, clues and clarifications appended to it adapted the text to contemporary events, which strengthened convictions about its great clairvoyance. In particular, it is believed I. predicted the Northern Wars (1239–1268 ), the Great Plagues (1268, 1272 and 1294), the bloody War of the Two Unicorns (1309–1318 ) and the Haak Invasion (1350). I. was also supposed to have prophesied the climactic changes observed from the end of the thirteenth century, known as the Great Frost, which superstition always claimed was a sign of the end of the word and linked to the prophesied coming of the Destroyer (q.v.). This passage from I.'s Prophecy gave rise to the infamous witch hunts (1272–76) and contributed to the deaths of many women and unfortunate girls mistaken for the incarnation of the Destroyer. Today, I. is regarded by many scholars as a legendary figure and her 'prophesies' as very recently fabricated apocrypha, and a running literary fraud.
Effenberg and Talbot,
Encyclopaedia Maxima Mundi, Volume X

Do read the books though, if you have time. They are really amazing, and you will love the games 100 times more, after reading. In my honest opinion.

 

[HarelMor]

I will do my best to do so. there are no books in my native lang, the shipping fee when buying from amazon is about 20 usd.

I wonder if the lodge will play a role in the withcer 3, filippa escaped and she is too smart to get caught again.