Long list of feedback/suggestions from somene who played almost all digital card games and watched them all fail

[LordofCards]

Long list of feedback/suggestions from somene who played almost all digital card games and watched them all fail

( Hearthstone is the only one that did not fail when it comes to making it big (money), but when it comes to some other stuff it failed gamers real hard. I wish someone would copy some of their designe/UI choices and not only the things that ruined that game for me, like pay to win, scripted RNG, terrible balance, zero quality of life updates, renting cards for real money etc. )

I currently have three CCG games on my PC that are at closed beta stage and none of them will make it big. One of them actually has great gameplay and would be an incredible success but the UI, visuals are really terrible.
I tried to point out all the bad design decisions and how they could improve it but developers tend to think how everything they do is perfect and people on forum usually just defend them blindly.

Some people say this game company is better so let's try again. ( When it comes to gridning/pay to win it does not look promising at all. Some developer for this game was asked about the game pricing http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/06/15/gwent-developer-interview-ign-live-e3-2016 and he gave a typical PR response" we are gamers, you can sing up and play "bita" etc. " without answering the actual question on how the pricing will be.

Every CCG that comes out just wants to copy HS when it comes to that. The problem with that approach is that you can already play HS, why switch to another game when it is the same thing all over gain.
I do not even mind if the game is pay to win. But just not as much as HS. For example if you can earn gold by playing against bots, if you could earn some gold even when you lose, if there where no quests that force you to play decks/classes you do not have good cards for, if you earned twice as much for winning then in HS, if quests rewarded you more, if packs costed less and game more etc.
And a very important thing.

I do not want to spend my money to rent cards. Hearthstone acctualy removed a huge part of people collection and now you can only rent cards. Of course you never acctualy owned nothing in that game since they can ban you and take your cards when ever they feel like it but they even made it worse.

I am talking about wild/standard mode. Wild is a dead mode so all the cards you have are basically gone.


All that being said, HS developers ( those who originality worked on the game ) did an incredibly job when it comes to UI and design.

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Here are some points about this game I would like to make:

1 A. If you plan to add ( and you probably do ) those irritating emotes like in HS I would also like to know if you will add permanent mute option. If the answer is "no" or "maybe" then I already know what kind of game this is and do not want to have anything with it. I definitely do NOT want to listen to some prerecorded voices and to be forced to mute my opponent every time I start the game.

In HS people have been asking for that option for a long time but we are ignored. Why? because those emotes create a connection with a game and create negative emotions. That is good for them because when you get emotional you are more likely to do something stupid ( like soend a lot of money on the game in order to get back at those trolls who BM you ).

Little scam tricks like that are used in gaming industry more and more. I understand they only care about money and it is only business but I still do not like it.

2. B I would like to see OPTIONAL voice and text chat. I repeat OPTIONAL so if it is ON then you can talk to your opponents and if it is OFF then no one can talk to you. There could be a setting also to turn it OFF/ON for friends only and an option to blocks communication with some people.

Again, people who are against this have a hard time understanding a concept of OPTIONAL chat. No one cn insult you if you keep it OFF.

3. C I would like to see RNG in this game actually scripted being to be random. It is irritating to play a card game where RNG is scripted to make you win/lose and keep everyone around 50% win rate. Of course matchmaking like that is done in a lot of games like counter strike, MOBA games etc. but problem with a card game is that RNG can be easily codded to to artificially keep you around 50% win rate just by giving you bard draws etc.

Since there is zero regulation over what kind of RNG code developers use they can do what ever they want. Even casinos have some superficial control over that but games do not even though a lot of them involve gambling ( like buying packs )

4. DIt would be nice if this game did not involve gambling = buying packs with random cards but earned money in some other way

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Now, about the visuals:

1. The bottom looks bad. I am talking about the blue part. It looks so out of place, like it is a a bigger windows taskbar and not part of the game.

2. Gwent visuals in Witcher 3 had a lot of problems also but the over all look was better. More serious, more simple ( in a good way ) , cleaner etc.

http://abload.de/img/gwento6jgf.jpg

3. Numbers style on the side of the board look out of place. Like their are from some arcade game

4. Cards on the board are too small, not sure if anything can be done about it, but it is a shame since card art is not bad. Yes you can zoom to see the card but that is not such a good solution, Card art looks ok, but in witcher 3 they where bigger and the visual style allowed it to easier tell them apart.

5. Numbers on the cards are too small also. ( I would prefer if enemy card backs and all where not shown in total so that the board is moved upwords more. That would allow for the cards in my hand and the cards on the board to be bigger thus making it easier to see 9 enjoy the art and tell cards apart and see the numbers ). Again, zooming in is not a good replacement.

6. The right side of the board where you see zoomed in card ( the one you mouse over ) is just irritating after a while. It would be better if there and on the left side you would have your and enemy hero portrait.
I would place my hero portrait on the left side and enemy portrait on the right side. Some animated card art looks really great. imagine if you could have hero portraits like that, You could sell that and even customization for those portraits. One moba game is earning a LOT just on skins alone.

http://abload.de/img/boardcopywjucf.jpg

If you wanted to zoom in on the card you could just make it so that you can right click on the card and it will pop out a zoomed version of it.

The amount of health could also be placed on the hero portrait.

it is a shame your hero does not even exist in a game that is a part of an RPG game universe ( book )Those small icons next to your name is pointless.

7. It would be nice if you could bind " end turn"/ " pass turn" button to what ever key you want, The current position for it is not good. It would be nice if i could bind it to right mouse button ( I guess then you should be able to bind card zoom to another key also ). Having a key for "end turn" being binded to a keybord key is ok also but it is better if you can play with a mouse only. Of course autohotkey could come to a rescue but I would prefer if the game had custom key bindings.

8. " Pass turn" button would be better placed on the top right corner side. Easier to reach from an ergonomic point of view ( every detail is important, the more comfortable the game is the more overal enjoyment you will have playing it even when you do not consciously notice those things )

9. It would be nice if you could hide your opponent name or place is to that it is not near crucial date ( like life amount ). It would also be nice not to point out your opponent name when you lose the game.

Why all that? The game just becomes more irritating when you lose against "HiHIHiIlovebunnyes" especially more then one time.

10. I hope matchmaking will work so that you can not face same opponent in a row

11. Option rematch your last opponent would be a good one. So if you both click on "rematch" you can play again one or two more times ( for the best of three )

12. It would be nice if text chat started working automaticaly once you start pressing letters on the keyboard. No need to force people to press "enter" and then start typing.

13. I hope "concede" will work instantly and that it will not require conformation. Same goes for closing the game etc. YES I AM SURE I want to close the game. It is not a crucial project that will save the world from pay to win games infestation so even if i missclick ( and i do not ) I can live with it.

 

[Devilisfat]

What are ALL the digital card games you played?
and ALL of them failed? Wow.

 

[LordofCards]

If you have nothing smart and constructive to say it is better if you stay quiet. I did not write all that just so that i could feed some trolls. Then again maybe this topic is too complex for you but then you need to be more polite and ask more precisely what part you where not able to comprehend.

Take care my son.

 

[lord_blex]

I feel like most of your points are minor nitpicks, certainly not things that would make the game fail or succeed. some of them are completely fair, but I wouldn't say they are as important as the start of your post makes them out to be.

the one I definitely disagree with is hero portraits. why should they waste space with them, when they are completely unrelated to the game?

 

[LordofCards]

Nothing really minor about it. But to some people stuff like that do seem irrelevant. For a lot of developers it is also to hard to comprehend why those things are important so you should not feel that bad about it. Just remember that this game just like every other one is not perfect.

Some people get overly sensitive when you point out some things you do not like etc.

Have a lovely day ;-)

 

[Pug.]

Not quite sure why @LordofCards hasn't gotten more likes and Red points. Well, I gave you two, so there you go. That was a solid post with a lot of constructive things to say. My experience with cards games is limited to the version of Gwent which came with Wild Hunt, so I personally welcome feedback from people that have played other games like Hearth Stone and are aware of the pitfalls that come with the genre.

I completely agree that there should be an option to mute opponents, and I definitely don't want to be inundated with emoticons and other silliness by human players. That was one of the things that ruined Mortal Kombat X for me: having to listen to some dude breathing into his mic, his kid playing around in the background, their family arguing, etc.

Not a huge fan of micro-transactions - I have said that elsewhere and will keep it to that - but if implemented correctly, they shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't have an issue with CDPR charging for new single-player campaigns, for instance, or the premium versions of cards which include 3D animations and whatnot (though premium cards should also be acquirable through winning matches). What will break the game for me is if someone can just sit down and pay to win.

I would also like there to be a couch coop mode to play with friends and family, but I'm not sure how that would work since bluffing seems to be a large part of the game.

 

[LukDeRiff]

I was going to make a point by point repy to the OP post but after reading it, it is obvious that most of his criticism/suggestions are essentially based on speculation.Talking about things that we have no information on is fun but rarely leads to meaningful results because execution matters. Very few features are broken in principle but dependent on the exectution in a particular game.

Does not help that there is a lack of reasoning in a lot of the points. Just saying "It would be nice if X" is not good enough.

 

[Rawls]

If you want to discuss the suggestions that is fine. But let's steer clear of discussing the quality of other members' posts, which is off topic.

One point that I agree with is that the cards on the board and numbers could stand to be a little larger.

 

[TitoOliveira]

The thing about wild/standard is something i can't see any tcg getting away from. At some point they must limit which cards/expansions are "valid", or else, beyond that point, it will be infeasible to add new cards to the game, as they will have to test it against every other existing cards and meta. And i won't say that the solution they did in Hearthstone is the cleverest thing, but it doesn't alienate people. The Wild mode still has all the features of the standard, in case people don't want to be limited by the standard rules.

Don't have much to say about the voice thing. I've never felt nearly as annoyed as you about this in HS, but there's no argument to the fact there should be settings to make things optional. Mute, unmute, etc...

I disagree with the blue bar argument. It matches the visual fx on most of the elements and more importantly it helps hierarchize and group information, sharing colours with the coin, the fx behind the card preview and whatnot. Maybe the lightning in it could be tuned down so it doesn't stand out so much.

But the rest of the board i feel it's cluttered. Visually it improves a lot compared to the TW3 version, but i feel it loses usability. Some icons do not need to stand out so much, specially those inside the board that shows which row is which.
I like having the image and description of the selected card showing at the right side, without having to press a button to see what the card does. But the cards inside the board are too small and the information is cluttered. I don't know if size is the problem though, this kind of thing usually can be taken from multiple angles and any of those can solve the problem.

 

[Ignen]

1. The bottom looks bad. I am talking about the blue part. It looks so out of place, like it is a a bigger windows taskbar and not part of the game.

I agree on this, it does look like they stiched those together with no much thought as to how it'd make the Interface look as a whole. Kinda like seeing a patch in a piece of clothing and pretending it doesn't stand out.

3. Numbers style on the side of the board look out of place. Like their are from some arcade game

This could be solved by adding some customization options to suit different tastes, for me it looks fine.

4. Cards on the board are too small, not sure if anything can be done about it, but it is a shame since card art is not bad. Yes you can zoom to see the card but that is not such a good solution, Card art looks ok, but in witcher 3 they where bigger and the visual style allowed it to easier tell them apart.

They do look small, but to be honest I don't know if that's just the impression one gets because of two factors: The screen size of your computer and the fact that you are seeing it through a video. Maybe the size looks alright when you are in front of a tv or monitor playing the actual game. Don't know how feasible it'd be to add customization options for the cards' artwork

5. Numbers on the cards are too small also. ( I would prefer if enemy card backs and all where not shown in total so that the board is moved upwords more. That would allow for the cards in my hand and the cards on the board to be bigger thus making it easier to see 9 enjoy the art and tell cards apart and see the numbers ). Again, zooming in is not a good replacement.

The number size looks OK to me, so again we combe back to the issue of perspective, first impressions and customization options.

6. The right side of the board where you see zoomed in card ( the one you mouse over ) is just irritating after a while. It would be better if there and on the left side you would have your and enemy hero portrait.
I would place my hero portrait on the left side and enemy portrait on the right side. Some animated card art looks really great. imagine if you could have hero portraits like that, You could sell that and even customization for those portraits. One moba game is earning a LOT just on skins alone.

A matter of personal taste I believe, it doesn't bother me in the slighest, so customization pops up once more. Agree with the hero portraits bit

it is a shame your hero does not even exist in a game that is a part of an RPG game universe ( book )Those small icons next to your name is pointless.

Are you talking about the Leader cards? The hero cards are displayed, but the Deck Leaders are nowhere to be seen. If that's the case I pretty much agree, that was a nice detail in W3.

8. " Pass turn" button would be better placed on the top right corner side. Easier to reach from an ergonomic point of view ( every detail is important, the more comfortable the game is the more overal enjoyment you will have playing it even when you do not consciously notice those things )

I think they could do without if they do provide the option to bind keys... which I think every single game should do anyways.

9. It would be nice if you could hide your opponent name or place is to that it is not near crucial date ( like life amount ). It would also be nice not to point out your opponent name when you lose the game.

Personal taste again, you know the rest. I'm not bothered by those two details.

12. It would be nice if text chat started working automaticaly once you start pressing letters on the keyboard. No need to force people to press "enter" and then start typing.

I think you exaggerate here, it's not much work to just press enter. Plus consider all the complains from those (me included) who would be anoyed because they pressed keys by mistake.

13. I hope "concede" will work instantly and that it will not require conformation. Same goes for closing the game etc. YES I AM SURE I want to close the game. It is not a crucial project that will save the world from pay to win games infestation so even if i missclick ( and i do not ) I can live with it.

Concede? You mean "pass turn"? disagree with that one if that's the case, someone may hit the pass key/button by mistake and become annoyed, in any case it shouldn't take too long, I think it'd be nice if it was similar to "pass turn" in W3 Gwent, but a bit faster. Disagree for the closing game bit too, some people may hit close game by mistake, that's why pretty much all developers implement it in most if not all their games, BUT I believe this could be a customizable option, some games do have it and I don't think it'd be hard to code, both camps pleased here.

There's one thing which MUST be customizable or completely erased: That flippin coin which indicates whose turn it is, that is the most annoying thing in the current game, BOTH the sound AND the VISUAL. I doubt few people would be annoyed by that. If anything it should be limited to the fuction it had in W3, just to decide which player starts to lay down cards (for me that limit is more than fine)... and even then some people may find it annoying.

I didn't comment on your other points because I completely agree with them and I have nothing to add or because a few of them were just expanding on your main ideas.

 

[Cubituss]

It is a bit strange to read about permamute functionality and right after that about avatar customization - what if someone does not like avatars, should there not be a "hide all avatars forever" option?

Either way, thanks for your opinion. It scared me a little bit when you went into conspiracy theory on RNG though

 

[LordofCards]

The thing about wild/standard is something i can't see any tcg getting away from. At some point they must limit which cards/expansions are "valid", or else, beyond that point, it will be infeasible to add new cards to the game, as they will have to test it against every other existing cards and meta. And i won't say that the solution they did in Hearthstone is the cleverest thing, but it doesn't alienate people. The Wild mode still has all the features of the standard, in case people don't want to be limited by the standard rules.

Don't have much to say about the voice thing. I've never felt nearly as annoyed as you about this in HS, but there's no argument to the fact there should be settings to make things optional. Mute, unmute, etc...

I disagree with the blue bar argument. It matches the visual fx on most of the elements and more importantly it helps hierarchize and group information, sharing colours with the coin, the fx behind the card preview and whatnot. Maybe the lightning in it could be tuned down so it doesn't stand out so much.

But the rest of the board i feel it's cluttered. Visually it improves a lot compared to the TW3 version, but i feel it loses usability. Some icons do not need to stand out so much, specially those inside the board that shows which row is which.
I like having the image and description of the selected card showing at the right side, without having to press a button to see what the card does. But the cards inside the board are too small and the information is cluttered. I don't know if size is the problem though, this kind of thing usually can be taken from multiple angles and any of those can solve the problem.

Nah, just because you can't see something it does not mean it can not be done. You had a same response from kids defending pay to win games with " BUT OMG developers need to eat they have to be pay to win...". Then somene made dota2, tf2 works ok also, Legue of legends earns a ton of money from skins ( they do milk people on the side with pay to win tricks ).

Saying how a card game has to take away your cards that you even bought with real money like HS did is just silly. They could have easily nerfed just a couple of cards instead of removing half of the people collections.

They can also add new cards with no problem when it comes to balance. Use a testing server and since you earn bilions with a game you can hire some people to balance the game.

Defending that practice makes no sense unless you are a shill or a very naive person. WIld mode a a joke. Dead mode that will have less and less players with time. Saying " gosh you can use your cards there..." is dumb.

I agree on this, it does look like they stiched those together with no much thought as to how it'd make the Interface look as a whole. Kinda like seeing a patch in a piece of clothing and pretending it doesn't stand out.


This could be solved by adding some customization options to suit different tastes, for me it looks fine.


They do look small, but to be honest I don't know if that's just the impression one gets because of two factors: The screen size of your computer and the fact that you are seeing it through a video. Maybe the size looks alright when you are in front of a tv or monitor playing the actual game. Don't know how feasible it'd be to add customization options for the cards' artwork


The number size looks OK to me, so again we combe back to the issue of perspective, first impressions and customization options.


A matter of personal taste I believe, it doesn't bother me in the slighest, so customization pops up once more. Agree with the hero portraits bit


Are you talking about the Leader cards? The hero cards are displayed, but the Deck Leaders are nowhere to be seen. If that's the case I pretty much agree, that was a nice detail in W3.


I think they could do without if they do provide the option to bind keys... which I think every single game should do anyways.


Personal taste again, you know the rest. I'm not bothered by those two details.


I think you exaggerate here, it's not much work to just press enter. Plus consider all the complains from those (me included) who would be anoyed because they pressed keys by mistake.


Concede? You mean "pass turn"? disagree with that one if that's the case, someone may hit the pass key/button by mistake and become annoyed, in any case it shouldn't take too long, I think it'd be nice if it was similar to "pass turn" in W3 Gwent, but a bit faster. Disagree for the closing game bit too, some people may hit close game by mistake, that's why pretty much all developers implement it in most if not all their games, BUT I believe this could be a customizable option, some games do have it and I don't think it'd be hard to code, both camps pleased here.

There's one thing which MUST be customizable or completely erased: That flippin coin which indicates whose turn it is, that is the most annoying thing in the current game, BOTH the sound AND the VISUAL. I doubt few people would be annoyed by that. If anything it should be limited to the fuction it had in W3, just to decide which player starts to lay down cards (for me that limit is more than fine)... and even then some people may find it annoying.

I didn't comment on your other points because I completely agree with them and I have nothing to add or because a few of them were just expanding on your main ideas.

Yes, some of those stuff bother people, some do not. But at the end most of it could be optional and it would hurt no one. I would liek to point out that even when it does not bother you, all those small details do add up and improve and ruin the overall feel of the game.
- "concede" = surrender the game
- Hero portrait = Your avatar in the game

It is a bit strange to read about permamute functionality and right after that about avatar customization - what if someone does not like avatars, should there not be a "hide all avatars forever" option?

Either way, thanks for your opinion. It scared me a little bit when you went into conspiracy theory on RNG though

Maybe you are kidding but that is a thing. I would not mind that but if avatars where sold for real money that it would be a problem.

There is no "conspiracy" in my post about RNG. Not sure what is confusing to you when it comes to that.

Like i said, there is zero regulation over what kind of RNG codes are used in games. What a lot of people do not even know is that it ic acctualy harder to achieve real randomness with RNG then it is to make it non random. Al this you can search for your self by using the magical powers of a thing called "google" ;-)

When you earn money by luring people into gambling it is crazy to belive you not rigged the ods for the "house to win". but, hay maybe you even think casinos do not do that ;-)

Packs are just gambling. Why would you not have it scripted? Keeping everyone around 50% win rate like i said also is done in a lot of games but with a card game the problem is that it can be done just by giving you bad draws or matching you against your counter class.

Try not to use the wwords " conspiracy" just because you are not informed at all about some things. Internet can be used to search and educate your self you know, not only for FB and stuff like that.

Cheers.

 

[O_Rei_do_Frango]

First of all, this is a pretty good thread and it is the sort of stuff that is needed, i.e. detailed suggestions instead of simply saying "the game looks ugly!" and such.
I'm looking forward to this game, because I really enjoyed gwent in The Witcher 3, but, other than playing Hearthstone for a few hours without ever really getting into it (though it was enjoyable enough, I suppose), I too don't really have any experience in CCG, so it's interesting to read what someone with experience has to say about do's and dont's and other suggestions.

Having said that, I'd like to make a suggestion to you, and that is to lose the arrogant tone that comes across in every post of yours. Maybe it wasn't deliberate and you're just frustrated in seeing so many games fucking it up, but if you step back and reread your OP, you'll realize that you come across as quite arrogant, I'm afraid. And your following posts keep the same tone too.
And if you complain that developers don't listen, well, people tend not to listen as much to someone who acts in an arrogant manner, no matter how right they may be and how many good points they make.
I myself agree with some of your points and think that what you say has its own logic, but if you want people to listen to you, it won't help you to immediately come with an "I know how to make this good, but I already know you guys are going to fuck it up, because you won't listen to me, as usual" kind of attitude.

You seem to be already assuming the worst about this game, when we still know very little about it and you even go as far as showing quite a degree of condescension towards others (not to mention that needless mocking of Damien Monnier's pronunciation of "beta" in the video).

Again, overall, I appreciate your post and suggestions and I don't doubt that you have experience in this sort of game and that you may make good points.
But coming across as an arrogant know-it-all won't help you being heard at all.

 

[Cubituss]

Nobody scripts RNG to be a 50% win mechanic. Since I work on games involving RNG, I know that as a fact. The reasons are this:

1) developers are not assholes
2) and if some of they are - it would be extremely hard to code

Do not believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[OrangeApple]

I can't wait for this game, just for the essence of actually playin against somebody. I'm so bored playing against the in game AI (even on hard mode, it's predictable)

 

[Cubituss]

During E3 I sat with one of our guests and played like 4 matches in a row with him, because we both had "another round" syndrome

 

[OrangeApple]

During E3 I sat with one of our guests and played like 4 matches in a row with him, because we both had "another round" syndrome

Just outa interest, is there plans for an iOS version.......I would love to rock Gwent on my iPad

 

[Cubituss]

Of course we are thinking of next steps for Gwent but for now we need to concentrate on what we announced as there is so much to do!

 

[Toyen]

Are you looking for 2016 release?

This would be the BEST Xmas gift EVER! : )

 

[Cubituss]

The closed beta will start in September 2016.