Loot - too much, too little?

[octavian123]

Since CDPR are making expansions, it might be a good idea to make a zone roughly as big as the Valley of Khorinis in Gothic 2, where every single point of interest and quest offers a unique and interesting gameplay challenge. I was thinking about a zone with a maximum o 3 settlements (1 town and two smaller settlements) with lots of C&C. In short, I want a small but very dense zone with unique challenges.

Dammit, I thiink I've been spoiled by Gothic II. Everytime I play a 3rd person RPG, I compare it to Gothic. I truly believe it is the Deus Ex of medieval RPGs and it's the standard to which I measure all similar games.

 

[White_Wolf77]

I know that witcher series have always been it own niche genre and not a proper RPG in the traditional sense but I don't ever really feel impress when I get new weapons like other RPG. All the swords look the same to me, the only differences is better stats, am I wrong? And if there is, then it very small, small enough for me to not really ever notice. It does take away from the goal of unlocking better weapons like most RPG and feeling more badass when you get a cool looking weapon. But like I said, witcher games have always been their own niche genre of rpg.

Game developers would always be bombarded by complaints after complaints from players of all angles. People would likely to complain about the scarcity of weapon/armor dropping from slain enemies with reason that it's not realistic, now that TW3 has more loots, people still complain about it

There is no way for CDPR to satisfy everyone of us, however, imho giving more loot is better than less and it's exactly what CDPR has done.

@White_Wolf77

Idk, it just feels excessive to me and makes me feel like those resources could have been better spent elsewhere.

There is always the case of compromise in how resources are distributed to making the best game possible and TW3 is one of them. I'm fairly sure the final product that we are seeing has undergone numerous processes of tweaking and brainstorming from CDPR and they feel that the final retail product is the best they can give us within their resources and time. There is no way we will know the real process and how decisions were made prior to releasing the game without us directly involved in it...

Having said that, I believe CDPR wants TW3 to reach wider audience - players who haven't played the earlier witcher series nor read the books. From this alone, decisions would have gone significantly different from just focusing on the die hard witcher fans.

Now to cater for the different customization and tweaks we will have to wait for mods and the good news is that CDPR fully supports it

 

[octavian123]

Game developers would always be bombarded by complaints after complaints from players of all angles. People would likely to complain about the scarcity of weapon/armor dropping from slain enemies with reason that it's not realistic, now that TW3 has more loots, people still complain about it

There is no way for CDPR to satisfy everyone of us, however, imho giving more loot is better than less and it's exactly what CDPR has done.



There is always the case of compromise in how resources are distributed to making the best game possible and TW3 is one of them. I'm fairly sure the final product that we are seeing has undergone numerous processes of tweaking and brainstorming from CDPR and they feel that the final retail product is the best they can give us within their resources and time. There is no way we will know the real process and how decisions were made prior to releasing the game without us directly involved in it...

Having said that, I believe CDPR wants TW3 to reach wider audience - players who haven't played the earlier witcher series nor read the books. From this alone, decisions would have gone significantly different from just focusing on the die hard witcher fans.

Now to cater for the different customization and tweaks we will have to wait for mods and the good news is that CDPR fully supports it

Maybe the swords enemies drop could be battered and useless? Something more of a decor item?

And yea, it's obvious they want to reach a wider audience, seeing how little my choices in TW2 matter but I won't hold a grudge against them for that. Games are incredibly risky and expensive media to develop so I understand.

I am eager to see what the community can bring. A LOT and I mean a LOT of resources are very similar to TW1 so I don't think a TW1 fan remake like Black Mesa is out of the question.

 

[Chri2Kng]

I hope Redkits is anywhere as open as Skyrim modtools was because as amazing as W3 is, I bought it because it fully supported mods. I love Inquisition as well but unfortunately it doesn't have a modtools kit.

 

[Gothfather]

Maybe the swords enemies drop could be battered and useless? Something more of a decor item?

And yea, it's obvious they want to reach a wider audience, seeing how little my choices in TW2 matter but I won't hold a grudge against them for that. Games are incredibly risky and expensive media to develop so I understand.

I am eager to see what the community can bring. A LOT and I mean a LOT of resources are very similar to TW1 so I don't think a TW1 fan remake like Black Mesa is out of the question.

Let me put it in terms of math...

let us say that if a player did the very least possible to finish the game they will need X loot.

X loot is based on just having the exact amount of loot to craft, sell and buy what you need to play the game.

Most players in an open world are going to far more than the barest minimum. But approx. how much overal content is the barest minimum? 5% or 10%? Lets say it is 10% if you do 20% of the content you will acquire twice as much loot at you need or 2x. If you do 100% of the content or close to it you will have 10 times as much loot as you need or 10x.

How do you reduce the loot drops in an open world environment when a player can do anywhere from 10% of the content to 100% of the content? If you reduces it you screw over the player just doing the barest minimum.

This is why Open world games has so much more loot then non open world games. Because in an non open world game the difference between doing the least amount to finish the game and doing the most amount of content to finish the game are not that divergent. They are relatively close. So the amount of loot is much easier to tweak and scale, but when the amount of content that a player can do is 10 to 20 times greater for one player than another tweaking loot is a lot harder. This is why open world is more about letting the player CHOOSE how they will partake in the content then regulating the content from the developers perspective.

You as a player have to make choice on what content you will do and the content includes loot.

 

[Tuco]

You clearly missed MY point..

Nope, actually, as Baudolino already pointed, you are once again the one completely missing what this discussion is about.
I'm not suggesting anything that would alter the balance of the game nor require a more "completionist" approach, simply because with the the more scarcity I am advocating for you'd ideally also have lower requirements, which negates this imaginary issue you are talking about, of players being unable to progress "if then don't do everything".

in terms of herbs being "also scenery", let's ignore for a moment that I already stressed how herbs were just a small part of the whole issue... Did you actually look around in the game?
Did you notice...
- How much vegetation you have that can add to the scenery without being lootable?
- How little aesthetic difference it makes before and after you pick up some herb?

This is like the example I made about "realism" and being able to pick up common grass. Would it be "a more accurate simulation"? Sure. Would it add anything to the game experience? Hardly.

Oh, and @Yeiiow
I absolutely agree with you about this:

*Merchants and blacksmiths should only require special ingredients from the player(like meteorite ore, griffin feathers, gargoyle skin, etc) when asked to craft something, not materials/ingredients such as: lumber, iron, ropes, etc, they should already own and provide that kind of materials. This is one of the things i hated about The Witcher 2 and sadly it made a comeback in The Witcher 3.

It's both a senseless thing in lore terms and a needlessly annoying thing to deal in gameplay terms.
Why on hell should Geralt, a wandering adventurer and monster hunter, go around picking up common and cheap materials like planks, cotton rolls, ropes, etc.

I didn't like it in TW2 either, Tw3 being dozens of times bigger just contributed to highlight the issue even more.

 

[Gothfather]

Nope, actually, as Baudolino already pointed, you are once again the one completely missing what this discussion is about.
I'm not suggesting anything that would alter the balance of the game nor require a more "completionist" approach, simply because with the the more scarcity I am advocating for you'd ideally also have lower requirements, which negates this imaginary issue you are talking about, of players being unable to progress "if then don't do everything".

in terms of herbs being "also scenery", let's ignore for a moment that I already stressed how herbs were just a small part of the whole issue... Did you actually look around in the game?
Did you notice...
- How much vegetation you have that can add to the scenery without being lootable?
- How little aesthetic difference it makes before and after you pick up some herb?

This is like the example I made about "realism" and being able to pick up common grass. Would it be "a more accurate simulation"? Sure. Would it add anything to the game experience? Hardly.

Oh, and @Yeiiow
I absolutely agree with you about this:


It's both a senseless thing in lore terms and a needlessly annoying thing to deal in gameplay terms.
Why on hell should Geralt, a wandering adventurer and monster hunter, go around picking up common and cheap materials like planks, cotton rolls, ropes, etc.

I didn't like it in TW2 either, Tw3 being dozens of times bigger just contributed to highlight the issue even more.

You system doesn't work. Part of what MOST people like about crafting systems is finding things if someone does a minimalist approach to the game any reduction of loot for them means they will hardly be picking up anything. Even if this is all they need to complete the game because you have reduced the requirements. MOST people like to find shiny baubles in games. Most people like loot. Reduction means you screw over the minimalist in an open world. And yes you do regardless of your assertions that we also reduce the requirements. You are reducing things to fit YOUR idea of how much loot you think is appropriate for YOUR level of content completion. yet if you are doing anything close to 30% or more of the game you will be getting 3 times as much loot up to 10 times more. What about someone doing just 10% of the game in any given run? They get hardly any loot now sure they don't need any more but loot isn't just about need. What about them getting that feeling of the game rewarding them? Most people like the visceral feeling getting rewarded from a game, you'd just reduced this for the minimalist. Why? because you feel at your level of completion there too much loot and you refuse to self regulate yourself which is one of the key aspects of an open world mechanic. Why should CDPR make the game to fit your level of completion vs anyone else? Why can't you simply not press the loot all button? Self discipline its really something that you can't blame the devs for if you refuse to employ it.

 

[Tuco]

You system doesn't work. .

That's a funny claim since in a shape or the other it was already in several old games (Gothic, Risen, Ultima, Arcanum, just to name a few) and it worked far better than this over-bloated one.

And most of your subsequent claims are equally as arbitrary and baseless, if not downright false.

 

[birthday_massacre]

This never was about "what I loot", it's about making loot rewarding, useful and enjoyable rather than busywork.

If they didnt have trash look then there would be no way to make money in this game except by exploits. There is just as much loot in this game as skyrim. Skyrim there may even be MORE Loot and its a lot of trash too. If they NERFED the trash loot people would be complaining theres not way to make money in this game.

Also play the game like real life. Stop looting peoples houses and just loot chests and dead bodies. The game is realistic its like if you looted everyones house you went to in real life you would have tons of stuff in your house too or to sell to a fence. Taking loot out in an open world game is stupid and a bad idea. There should be tons of loot .

You are the one missing the point

 

[Tuco]

But in fact loot in Skyrim sucks. Badly.
It's even far worse than in this game, itemization is completely trivialized by overabundance AND level scaling, which makes pretty much pointless to hunt down good gear ,as pretty much anything that will drop in your hands no matter where you go will always be roughly of the same value.

Anyway, the game doesn't exactly starve you for money, but even if that was the case, making these fewer items in the world more valuable would address that as well, leaving the economy pretty much unaltered.

 

[birthday_massacre]

But in fact loot in Skyrim sucks. Badly.
It's even far worse than in this game, itemization is completely trivialized by overabundance AND level scaling, which makes pretty much pointless to hunt down good gear ,as pretty much anything that will drop in your hands no matter where you go will always be roughly of the same value.

Anyway, the game doesn't exactly starve you for money, but even if that was the case, making these fewer items in the world more valuable would address that as well, leaving the economy pretty much unaltered.

The best gear in this game is crafted , I agree they should have some better loot for the quests or stuff you pick off death bodies that is a different issue from saying there is too much loot in this game. If they were going to go with less loot then they would have to make the loot that drops worth more money to balance that out. Kind of like Diablo III on console did.

 

[soldiergeralt]

space bar is your friend. i don't even see loot, it's just second nature to walk over corpses pressing spacebar. then sell the excess

 

[Gothfather]

That's a funny claim since in a shape or the other it was already in several old games (Gothic, Risen, Ultima, Arcanum, just to name a few) and it worked far better than this over-bloated one.

And most of your subsequent claims are equally as arbitrary and baseless, if not downright false.

Sure, if you say so.

I remember almost everything dropping loot in gothic i recall killing animals for meat to cook which was a means to heal and you could sell the excess but it was over a decade so I could be mistaken. I don't recall it being a true open world at all. Ultima bloody hell i can't remember anything about the game play of ultima because the last time I played an ultima game i had a 486. But hey lets just go retro because retro is ALWAYS better... oh wait.

Now we are seeing the real issue you want the game to be more like X in this case piranha bytes games then cdpr games. Why? cuz YOU like it better. Diversity in the gaming industry is more important than your desires. Diversity gives players choice, diversity allows people to experience new things, diversity provides contrast and perspective. Thank god witcher 3 isn't a gothic/risen clone, why? Because gothic isn't the be all and end all, because gothic is just one approach to games, because if gothic was the only style of rpg we would miss out on innovation.

But I am sure everything I say is baseless, arbitrary and subjective, while you are nothing but objective cuz you know its you. Games gotta be how you like it and you never actually addressed the issue of people doing vastly different amount of content so they get vastly different amounts of loot, because I guess its baseless to assume that people wont do the exact same amount of content as you in an open world. i mean how could I ever come to that conclusion? Simply baseless... oh wait.

 

[BloodyWitcher]

The way loot is scattered about everywhere kills the quest pacing for me. It's not entirely the games fault because I loot at my own free will, nobodys forcing me.

Obviously the inventory management busy work that comes with it is an issue too. But when you're on a quest of importance or tracking something down and you're spending more time focusing on lootable crates ect and then checking your inventory for that swords stats.... It's a problem.

I don't know how they would do it but a semi fix would be to display weapon stats in the pop up box when you loot or maybe a simple green or red coloring indicating whether it's weaker or stronger than what you're currently packing.

 

[Solid_Altair]

I agree with the OP. The looting is excessive. I skip lots of it, but I wonder what actually useful stuff I'm losing. And let us not forget about the merchants money limit. The looting is so excessive that merchants can't afford to buy my junk. Needing to travel all across the world, just to sell junk, hurts the pace, too.

 

[birthday_massacre]

No, I fear you missed Tuco's point (again).
He's not just talking about reducing the amount of loot displayed in the game world. He's talking about reducing the amount of loot AND at the same time the loot required for crafting (or for other purposes).
As for your aesthetic objection, it's simply irrelevant. You can fill the world with hundreds of non lootable plant types.

His point is terrible. Like I said before, don't loot every crate, barrel, desk draws that you come across. Just loot dead bodies and chests. Problem solved. The loot is fine is this game, its not different than fallout of elder scrolls. All these open world games have tons of loot.

You don't have to loot everything you see, especially in peoples houses.

 

[TheRedWitcher]

Thumb up because I hate barrels and sacks. Omg it is so useless that their is alcohol to find in every cellar, I stopped checking the barrels today,... although sometimes they contain alchemy ingredients. TUCO is correct as far as his opinion goes.

 

[Ceroraven]

The loot is great - this is an open world game afterall - i for one find games awful where loot is reduced to the bare minimum making the world feel dead going into houses where you can loot 1 chest or maybe even nothing ...

Even tough Skyrim wasnt that good without mods - what made the world feel alive was the loot (with some mods the weapons loot etc was awful tied to levels ...), the npcs and the interaction with objects. Reality is if you would behave like in an RPG in the real world you would be rich after the first few houses (probably in prison aswell pretty fast) - having the option to loot is a good thing.

Just take a look at Dragon Age - the world just felt dead full of houses with glued inventory and glued NPCs. If thats good design too you - so be it but that doesnt mean its good from an objective point of view.

Thing is:
- looting is your choide
- there is more than enough loot to complete the game even if you dont look for loot
- they even tied the best loot to quests so you dont even miss out - i just dont see your issue besides your lack of self control ...

The only problem i see in this thread is the Threadstarter who wants the game to be adjusted to his preferences pretending to be objective ...

I for one would want even more loot - but they should really add some better items that are better or as good as witcher items.

I for one rally enjoy loot systems like in Diablo where you find a lot of bad stuff but always have the option to find something great and since its singleplayer it doesnt matter if loot makes you overpowered or underpowered - not to mention that you can avoid the latter pretty easily.

 

[Solid_Altair]

His point is terrible. Like I said before, don't loot every crate, barrel, desk draws that you come across. Just loot dead bodies and chests. Problem solved. The loot is fine is this game, its not different than fallout of elder scrolls. All these open world games have tons of loot.

You don't have to loot everything you see, especially in peoples houses.

Inquisition's loot isn't as abundant. I skip plants and ore I no longer need, but I never skip containers (which have "hidden" loot, that might be good). In TW3 I skip even containers, which speaks to how excessive it is.

 

[birthday_massacre]

Inquisition's loot isn't as abundant. I skip plants and ore I no longer need, but I never skip containers (which have "hidden" loot, that might be good). In TW3 I skip even containers, which speaks to how excessive it is.

One of my biggest issues with DAI was there wasnt enough loot. They needed more.
Like someone with bulimia just because there is a lot of food you can eat, doesn't mean there should be less food for everyone.
Its not other peoples fault some people cannot control themselves.

I and others have given the people that complain about too much loot ways to make it less but you don't want to do it. Just because you think there is too much loot doesnt mean that everyone would have to suffer with less loot like we did in DAI which felt lifeless.