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Lore Inconsistencies With Cards and Mechanics

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scraps69

User
#1
Lore Inconsistencies With Cards and Mechanics

So one thing has struck me as being super odd about playing the Skellige deck, and please forgive me if this hasn't been raised before, and that is the Skellige deck is really focused on necromancy, particularly with the Priestess of Freya resurrecting bodies from your own graveyard and even Udalryk bringing the dead from the opponents graveyard. I don't ever recall in the Witcher 3 that the Skellige peoples were so focused on resurrecting the dead. I mean it wasn't even explored. These people are hard, brutal warriors and they'll fight tooth and nail but once they are dead they are dead.

Though moving on from that point I feel that, on the other hand, the characters transforming into bears makes a whole lot more sense. As though they are gravely wounded and in a sort of rage when they get revived and have enough strength to carry the battle forward in a second wind of strength..

I mean this is all a contradiction in a sense, one purpose the people die and go into the grave, and then another it is to transform. I mean even generally across the whole of Gwent when you win a round, does that mean that even the victors of a round died and went to the grave? It's more of a place to rest the sick and wounded during the round and after the round is concluded (unless you've applied resistance of some sort to continue that card through to the next round).

As such I feel that the term "Graveyard" is used too loosely as it is a multi purpose area by which the cards get deposited and potentially drawn from again. If anything it should be some kind of stand by area, like a Temple, medic tent or any place of healing. The true graveyard really is only for those units that get banished and cannot be used again in battle.

So what are your thoughts? Perhaps Skellige did do a lot of necromancy that I completely forgot about (I doubt it as I got 100% in achievements in that game)? What are alternate names or explanations for the graveyard? Am I overthinking this as a non experienced person playing a card game?

Let me know!
 
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4RM3D

Moderator
#2
There have been varies threads about how Gwent doesn't follow the lore. What you've mentioned is just one of many examples. I am not going to list them all, but just a few examples:

- Witcher Potions should only work on Witchers.
- It's weird that Witchers (and many other neutral cards) can be played in the Monster faction.
- Fog can kill Foglets and Frost can kill the Wild Hunt
- The strength of various units compared to others, e.g. Bearmaster and Priestess are both only 1 strength while it Bearmaster should be "stronger".
- The (lack of) armor of various units compared to others; plenty of units wear armor (e.g. Temerian Infantry), but don't actually have an armor value in the game.
- Savage Bear (and other units) are considered "melee", but still have an infinite reach.
- All machines and boats are inherently very sturdy and shouldn't be able to be damaged or receive less damage when certain attacks are used.
- Cards like Dimeritium Shackles and Mardroeme shouldn't work on machines.
- How can a priestess resurrect a machine (e.g. trebuchet)?
- Should Avallac'h really belong to the Monster faction?
- Gaunter O'Dimm shouldn't belong to Monsters either and he is far too weak in Gwent, compared to his Godlike status in The Witcher.

- Etc...

In the end, it's difficult to follow the lore 100% of the time without breaking the gameplay.
 
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Shonendo

User
#3
How the heck is an Griffin stronger than an ARCHGriffin?

How the heck is an Griffin stronger than an ARCHGriffin?

...For real? Did whoever make these cards actually played the Witcher games?
 
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Ingsoc85

User
#5
Lore wise you're correct, but from a POV of card effect Archgriffin is much more powerful than Griffin.
 

Shonendo

User
#6
I would never forget the first time I fought an Archgriffin in Witcher 3. Mofo 2-shot me without breaking a sweat. Granted it was like 20 levels higher than I was at the time but I was like "YO HOT DAMN..."
And then I see this card for a measly 6 while it's much weaker counterpart is... stronger? I can't... I mean... I don't even... YO!
 

NlelithZ44

User
#7
I don't remember exactly how strong was Griffin at launch, maybe it was a weaker card, but the fact that Archgriffin is common and Griffin is Rare surely makes no sense...
 

Shonendo

User
#9
4RM3D;n8412650 said:
There have been varies threads about how Gwent doesn't follow the lore. What you've mentioned is just one of many examples. I am not going to list them all, but just a few examples:

- Witcher Potions should only work on Witchers.
- How can a priestess resurrect a machine (e.g. trebuchet)?
- Should Avallac'h really belong to the Monster faction?
- Gaunter O'Dimm shouldn't belong to Monsters either and he is far too weak in Gwent, compared to his Godlike status in The Witcher.
- Manticore has a higher Strength than Vesemir, while Vesemir can kill a Manticore.
- Etc...

In the end, it's difficult to follow the lore 100% of the time without breaking the gameplay.
Well numbers, all of which you brought up isn't difficult and it's all rather an easy fix.

-Change Swallow Potion to... something else that heals people. Like, herbs? There's tons of herbalists in the Witcher.
-Don't allow medics to resurrect machines (would help fixing the out of control NR res chains, 2-birds with 1 stone right there).
-Well, where else would you put him? I supposed he could be neutral but due to him related to the Wild Hunt... Not a huge issue imo.
-Agree. Gaunter needs to be a gold and do something fascinating. Like, have 10-11 strength and prevent any resurrection from happening. I would then switch to Monster faction permanently and give the middle finger to all the NR and SK opponents I face.
-Eh... The thing here is the card's effect. Vesemir IS a stronger card than Manticore because of its effect, while Manticore doesn't do a damn thing. Just a big pile of meat with fangs and wings.
 

SkippyHole

User
#10
4RM3D;n8412650 said:
There have been varies threads about how Gwent doesn't follow the lore. What you've mentioned is just one of many examples. I am not going to list them all, but just a few examples:

- Witcher Potions should only work on Witchers.
- How can a priestess resurrect a machine (e.g. trebuchet)?
- Should Avallac'h really belong to the Monster faction?
- Gaunter O'Dimm shouldn't belong to Monsters either and he is far too weak in Gwent, compared to his Godlike status in The Witcher.
- Manticore has a higher Strength than Vesemir, while Vesemir can kill a Manticore.
- Etc...

In the end, it's difficult to follow the lore 100% of the time without breaking the gameplay.

None of these really matter at all, they all make sense gameplaywise, and that's all that really matters.

The trouble is with monsters is that there aren't really many named characters in The Witcher series that are monsters (although with cards like Succubus and Draugr, that doesn't really matter). I definitely agree that Gaunter is a bit of a weak and boring ability for the character though. Swallow potions are easier to recognise than anything else, that's fine. Same with priestesses resurrecting machines - it wouldn't make sense in the game for them not to.

As for the original post, graveyard is a shorthand term in a lot of card games, so its easy to recognise as well. Skellige bringing things back doesn't make much sense, but some faction needed that ability, and in the game Skellige did have a lot of ghosts/zombies/undying werewolves, so why not them?
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#12
Shonendo SkippyHole

I just mentioned a few examples to point out that Gwent doesn't follow the lore with a lot of cards and mechanics. It's not like I really care about the lore in a card game. Gameplay is more important, after all.
 

Shonendo

User
#13
4RM3D;n8475880 said:
Shonendo SkippyHole

I just mentioned a few examples to point out that Gwent doesn't follow the lore with a lot of cards and mechanics. It's not like I really care about the lore in a card game. Gameplay is more important, after all.
That's nice and all but lore should definitely matter. People like me care about lore the most!
 
#14
Shonendo;n8469050 said:
How the heck is an Griffin stronger than an ARCHGriffin?
Maybe the Archgriffin have his claws bussy with a horse and can only use his wings at the moment? That will explain his ability to remove the weather :hmm:
 

Danest

User
#15
Backwards factions

So... Nilfgaard and Northern Realms. Are their basic strategies backwards from what they were in Witcher 3? Wasn't Radovid the master tactician with the empire having endless swarm of reinforcements?
 

zhiphius

User
#16
Radovid was not a leader in witcher 3 (only different foltest leader cards).

Both NR and NG stay true to the W3 version of the game. (though the card drawing spies are gone).
NR still got their bond mechanic, blue stripes cards and artillery identity.
NG is still about spies, just in a different way.

The core is still there, just built upon and deeper.
 

Laveley

User
#17
I dunno why there is this legend that the spy faction on W3 was NG when NR had the exact same number of spies.....
 

Tir_na_Lia

User
#18
Laveley;n8576220 said:
I dunno why there is this legend that the spy faction on W3 was NG when NR had the exact same number of spies.....
NG had more 0-1 Str medics, guaranteering more use of spies than the enemy used (or your spies he decoyed).

If the enemy does not use spies, you will use up to 3 on him and outspy him.

If the enemy uses spies (and/or decoys the ones you used on him), you will resurrect them during following rounds, so the total number of spies you'll use will always be greater.
 

Laveley

User
#19
Checco515;n8576370 said:
NG had more 0-1 Str medics, guaranteering more use of spies than the enemy used (or your spies he decoyed).

If the enemy does not use spies, you will use up to 3 on him and outspy him.

If the enemy uses spies (and/or decoys the ones you used on him), you will resurrect them during following rounds, so the total number of spies you'll use will always be greater.
What i said still stands; same number of spies.