Ludonarrative dissonance

[Techno_Core]

First of all, YAY I got to use that phrase!

Secondly, personally I think it's a mistake to have gone through the incredible lengths the devs went through to achieve creating Night City, to give me such an amazing open world to play in, but then narratively tell me I'm dying quickly. I mean, it just makes every side-job and gig ring a little hollow. I noticed it when I wanted to buy a particularly expensive car so I gigged pretty hard to earn the eddies and it suddenly struck me: What the hell am I doing? This makes no sense for my character in-game.

They built an incredible world for me to play in, then gave my character an in-game reason to not enjoy it, while at the same time trying to give me the player tons of reasons to explore and enjoy it.

I think I'd like the option of creating a character not tied to the main storyline.

 

[Buckadoz]

Every bit of marketing for this game was "wow look how cool NC is" but as soon as NC opens up, you're playing a character whose lifespan can be measured in the low-to-mid triple digit hours. The driving force behind the main storyline disincentivizes you from doing anything other than what's necessary -- it's even reinforced, all the time, by the relic malfunction warnings. I have to believe there were separate teams for the story and the world that never spoke to each other.

Spoiler: Ending Spoiler

I bet a lot of people rushed the ending to get to the point where you felt "safe" to immerse in NC only to find this is a "load your last save to keep playing" game, that there will never be a point in V's story again where you can just be in NC with no pressure. I know I lost all desire to do side missions after that.

 

[Techno_Core]

Spoiler: Ending Spoiler

I bet a lot of people rushed the ending to get to the point where you felt "safe" to immerse in NC only to find this is a "load your last save to keep playing" game, that there will never be a point in V's story again where you can just be in NC with no pressure. I know I lost all desire to do side missions after that.

Yeah, that bugged me too.

 

[faverodefavero]

Yeah, almost feels like they rushed the game out without really thinking much about anything. Huh...

 

[Techno_Core]

Yeah, almost feels like they rushed the game out without really thinking much about anything. Huh...

Imagine that.

 

[CTPhipps]

Well your character has months to live, no Eddies, and a desire to be a Legend in Night City.

Your character wouldn't be an Edgerunner if they weren't willing to risk their life for money and loot. Also, as we find out, your character has months to live.

So I don't see the issue.

 

[Techno_Core]

Well your character has months to live, no Eddies, and a desire to be a Legend in Night City.

Your character wouldn't be an Edgerunner if they weren't willing to risk their life for money and loot. Also, as we find out, your character has months to live.

So I don't see the issue.

Spoiler: Ending

You have months after your assault on Arasaka Tower and you get things taken care of by Alt. AND at that point you can't even enjoy those months in-game. Prior to the cutoff point and having Johnny removed your death is imminent. You almost die leaving the meeting with Hanako and you keep passing out.

 

[jahkin]

you get this death sentence hanging over Vs head too quickly.

It should have been like "oh, I have these headaches and sometimes that asshole appears and talks to me, weird"...while you try to hide from Yorinobu's eyes and also get back into merc business...that first act after the heist ... should have had no artifical time limit, should just allow us to explore and do jobs etc until the main story slowly creeps back to you, and up to the last third picks up the pace...

The damocles sword of doom also should have been just Yorinobu and Arasaka eventually realizing you are a witness, a potentia lthreat to the heir, and in possession of valuable tech they would rather just cut out of your head...

Johnny ... should have been just the annoying sidekick, providing valuable intel and contacts etc, but ultimately you would want him out of your head because it gets annoying and drives you slowly mad, not because your brain fries...

But we got what we got...

 

[CTPhipps]

Eh, it still doesn't make it clear you need the eddies to enjoy life and maybe achieve whatever goal you can.

And "Imminent" is never clear given you can and do spend weeks adventuring in-game.

And Johnny is awesome. Why would I ever want him out of my head?

 

[Techno_Core]

Eh, it still doesn't make it clear you need the eddies to enjoy life and maybe achieve whatever goal you can.

And "Imminent" is never clear given you can and do spend weeks adventuring in-game.

And Johnny is awesome. Why would I ever want him out of my head?

Vik gives you a gun as an option to end it all. It's pretty imminent. The 6 months is what you get for succeeding. An when you have another personality in your head that will take over your body killing you in the process, pursuing other side-goals seems silly.

 

[CTPhipps]

Vik gives you a gun as an option to end it all. It's pretty imminent. The 6 months is what you get for succeeding. An when you have another personality in your head that will take over your body killing you in the process, pursuing other side-goals seems silly.

I think frankly the game makes it clear that a large portion of the side quests in the game relate to death and people dealing with it. A major theme of the game is "What do you do when you have little time left in the world?" V can save a lot of people, make a legend for themselves, kill people who have it coming, and more.

I think a bigger question is, "Does your V BELIEVE in what he's doing?" My V is saving cyberpsychos, taking down gangs, and settling business.

The Side Gigs and missions he's doing are important. It seems that a lot of players don't seem to think their V would be doing them for the sake of doing them.

 

[Techno_Core]

I think frankly the game makes it clear that a large portion of the side quests in the game relate to death and people dealing with it. A major theme of the game is "What do you do when you have little time left in the world?" V can save a lot of people, make a legend for themselves, kill people who have it coming, and more.

I think a bigger question is, "Does your V BELIEVE in what he's doing?" My V is saving cyberpsychos, taking down gangs, and settling business.

The Side Gigs and missions he's doing are important. It seems that a lot of players don't seem to think their V would be doing them for the sake of doing them.

That doesn't really address the point: It's narratively dissonant to give us a large open world full of things to do and a character who is facing death sentence and an intense difficult time consuming manner to not die. Doing the side missions for the sake of doing them is absolutely valid unless you're given an in-game reason for focusing on something far more important.

 

[Witzzard]

That doesn't really address the point: It's narratively dissonant to give us a large open world full of things to do and a character who is facing death sentence and an intense difficult time consuming manner to not die. Doing the side missions for the sake of doing them is absolutely valid unless you're given an in-game reason for focusing on something far more important.

Yes and no.

Reality has given you a definitive number of days you live and is vast. Sooo - why are you playing games? < So it's only a partial narrative dissonance, but also our personal internal dissonance with worth.

The problem is rather, that the game is dangling a carrot in front of you, you'll seemingly never reach. While adding dozens of side quests that are in a big dissonance to that percieved goal. So it's made a lot more murky, than it actually is. And instead of simply connecting the carrot towards side quests (Some Fixer telling you it might help to become famous, decked out and rich to find the best medical care, which might possibily help you), it stays in the murky water of disonance.

 

[Techno_Core]

Yes and no.

Reality has given you a definitive number of days you live and is vast. Sooo - why are you playing games? < So it's only a partial narrative dissonance, but also our personal internal dissonance with worth.

The problem is rather, that the game is dangling a carrot in front of you, you'll seemingly never reach. While adding dozens of side quests that are in a big dissonance to that percieved goal. So it's made a lot more murky, than it actually is. And instead of simply connecting the carrot towards side quests (Some Fixer telling you it might help to become famous, decked out and rich to find the best medical care, which might possibily help you), it stays in the murky water of disonance.

If however reality told me I had a very limited number of days to die and some pretty specific things I needed to do to live, I'd probably lay off the video games.

 

[Witzzard]

If however reality told me I had a very limited number of days to die and some pretty specific things I needed to do to live, I'd probably lay off the video games.

True.

 

[OnyxCore]

First of all, YAY I got to use that phrase!

Secondly, personally I think it's a mistake to have gone through the incredible lengths the devs went through to achieve creating Night City, to give me such an amazing open world to play in, but then narratively tell me I'm dying quickly. I mean, it just makes every side-job and gig ring a little hollow. I noticed it when I wanted to buy a particularly expensive car so I gigged pretty hard to earn the eddies and it suddenly struck me: What the hell am I doing? This makes no sense for my character in-game.

They built an incredible world for me to play in, then gave my character an in-game reason to not enjoy it, while at the same time trying to give me the player tons of reasons to explore and enjoy it.

I think I'd like the option of creating a character not tied to the main storyline.

That's probably because NC was originally built as a backdrop for a proper RPG, which you'd spend a considerable amount of time in, bit like Velen and Skellige. That all seems to have changed with the very focused Silverhand storyline, so that wonderful NC gameworld is now rather underused, mostly redundant and empty feeling.

Shame.

 

[Buckadoz]

That's probably because NC was originally built as a backdrop for a proper RPG, which you'd spend a considerable amount of time in, bit like Velen and Skellige. That all seems to have changed with the very focused Silverhand storyline, so that wonderful NC gameworld is now rather underused, mostly redundant and empty feeling.

Shame.

Welcome to Whose Plot is it Anyway, where everything's Johnny Silverhand and the V doesn't matter!

 

[hulkman2456]

Spoiler: Ending Spoiler

I bet a lot of people rushed the ending to get to the point where you felt "safe" to immerse in NC only to find this is a "load your last save to keep playing" game, that there will never be a point in V's story again where you can just be in NC with no pressure. I know I lost all desire to do side missions after that.

Nah. Do you really want to be time controlled? Would you be fine if time advance was removed. Kill V by just advancing half a year in a minute? Have to wait 24 in game hours to call Claire? Breath Of The Wild comes to mind with this. Zelda's bee stuck 100 years holding Gannon back. Should you rush to beat that game, or prepare properly?

 

[Moxy3]

Honestly, i was even shocked to see that Judy, who i romanced and was together with me, didnt even care about me dying?
If my love interest is about to die, dont i do everything i can to help the person?
It made zero sense for her to just abandon me and not help me.
She didnt even try..
So much wrong with the story in my opinion..

 

[Puhctek]

I've found the open world much more enjoyable to explore if I just pretend Vic doesn't know what he's talking about, and V isn't imminently dying.

Currently, the characters tell V she is certain to die, but the game tells the player you're on a quest for survival. Maybe, if the player was told "V is guaranteed to die in some unspecified amount of time, how do you want to go out?", there would be less dissonance.