Ludonarrative dissonance

[andrewdilley]

I'm simply never going to agree with the idea that making NC more immersive solves the problem that an immersive NC is at odds with the game's plot

The frustrating thing is these little additions are things I'd love to see if the game wasn't about a doomed protagonist with less than a month to live

I do get this. Not wanting to re-open the montage wounds (I *like* the montage!) but a longer period of basically guilt-free mayhem in the more fun, enjoyable Night City we have now, before V gets confronted with the consequences of the Relic, would maybe have made for a really dramatic change of mood.

 

[medion_no]

In Yakuza you are

Every players don't have the same feeling
In RDR2, Arthur is about to die, but I can go playing poker, hunt for better stuff, fishing for... (no reason^^)
In ME1, I can explore many planet (for find rare minerals^^) and doing random quests when I know that I have to join Ilos urgently for stopping Saren.
I can continue, but that's the idea.

In the Yakuza series you are chased by the Japanese mafia, international assassins, your crazy frenemy and the police, alternatively or at the same time, but you have time to play arcade games, go to public remote control car competitions or catch a little girl's an stuffed animal. Aaah, videogames.

 

[CTPhipps]

I'm simply never going to agree with the idea that making NC more immersive solves the problem that an immersive NC is at odds with the game's plot

The frustrating thing is these little additions are things I'd love to see if the game wasn't about a doomed protagonist with less than a month to live

You don't like the plot. That's fine. Not every game is for everyone.

But this is the plot CDPR wanted to tell and it's the plot they made central to the narrative. Probably because they thought it was all tragic and deep.

What does one do with the last month of your life?

 

[moonknightgog]

Fallout 1&2

I don't know about that, New Reno in Fallout 2 does allow you some "immersion", considering the limitations of the times

 

[CTPhipps]

I don't know about that, New Reno in Fallout 2 does allow you some "immersion", considering the limitations of the times

Fallout 2 lets you be a porn star and have sex with both a mother as well as daughter related to a gangster.

Like real life!

 

[moonknightgog]

Fallout 2 lets you be a porn star and have sex with both a mother as well as daughter related to a gangster.

Like real life!

You can also offer prositutes to your companions, IIRC. If you play a female character, you can also offer sex to solve some quests

 

[mouser9169]

You don't like the plot. That's fine. Not every game is for everyone.

But this is the plot CDPR wanted to tell and it's the plot they made central to the narrative. Probably because they thought it was all tragic and deep.

What does one do with the last month of your life?

If they had just said you have a month to live, that would have been a different story.

What they said is 'You have a very limited amount of time to find a cure, and these are the things to do to make that happen."

If a doctor told me that I might live if I get to the Mayo Clinic quickly, I'm not taking time to visit museums or attend a wedding first.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

If they had just said you have a month to live, that would have been a different story.

What they said is 'You have a very limited amount of time to find a cure, and these are the things to do to make that happen."

If a doctor told me that I might live if I get to the Mayo Clinic quickly, I'm not taking time to visit museums or attend a wedding first.

If I remember it's few weeks at max. So it could be 3, 6, 8 weeks. And it's "vague" because he doesn't really know

 

[Notserious80]

If they had just said you have a month to live, that would have been a different story.

What they said is 'You have a very limited amount of time to find a cure, and these are the things to do to make that happen."

If a doctor told me that I might live if I get to the Mayo Clinic quickly, I'm not taking time to visit museums or attend a wedding first.

Yea this pretty much for me too. Its the dangeling of a cure thats like the straw that broke the camels back. Would have prefered it if it gave V 6 months right of the bat or something. make it more of a slow burn. Game would probably feel shorter then tho so.

 

[bcraig6010]

First of all, YAY I got to use that phrase!

Secondly, personally I think it's a mistake to have gone through the incredible lengths the devs went through to achieve creating Night City, to give me such an amazing open world to play in, but then narratively tell me I'm dying quickly. I mean, it just makes every side-job and gig ring a little hollow. I noticed it when I wanted to buy a particularly expensive car so I gigged pretty hard to earn the eddies and it suddenly struck me: What the hell am I doing? This makes no sense for my character in-game.

They built an incredible world for me to play in, then gave my character an in-game reason to not enjoy it, while at the same time trying to give me the player tons of reasons to explore and enjoy it.

I think I'd like the option of creating a character not tied to the main storyline.

Just imagine there being no fake magical barriers around the starting zone and after the first Sandra Dorsett mission just going out without all the oh god/blood cough/migraines/a$$hat commentary and just enjoying the city and the side quests.... saying no thanks to fatso would be nice too.

 

[minicrom]

I agree with OP and the story dlc will most likely reinforce that issue. Why the hell would V go in a side adventure if she/he is dying? The urgency of the situation ruins the roleplay experience and liberty of exploration. The story is great but the story lacks non urgent time to do side stuff and roleplay calmly. When you get the ability to explore you are already on borrowed time. I don't want the story to change it's great. I want a way to justify doing the side content without this clock above our heads. And the DLC won't even give us that when it was the opportunity to give us quality time with Jackie and showing V going up in the street. Wasted potential and poor management of player agency. Yes we have nothing that prevent us to explore. But we don't have enough ludonarrative element to negociate within ourselves why we should take the time to do it when we are dying. Great post OP.

Just imagine there being no fake magical barriers around the starting zone and after the first Sandra Dorsett mission just going out without all the oh god/blood cough/migraines/a$$hat commentary and just enjoying the city and the side quests.... saying no thanks to fatso would be nice too.

This. The quarantine at the beginning of the game is a mistake. It's the only time we could RP as a healthy V that tries to go up in society by doing jobs... It would lack pure storytelling but at least we would be free to do side content without asking ourselves... Wait does that make sense? But since dlc has Silverhand we already know we'll never get such quality time. As I said I loved the story. I don't want it to change but we need a moment in the story that allow us to explore without this clock over our heads.

 

[mouser9169]

This. The quarantine at the beginning of the game is a mistake. It's the only time we could RP as a healthy V that tries to go up in society by doing jobs... It would lack pure storytelling but at least we would be free to do side content without asking ourselves... Wait does that make sense? But since dlc has Silverhand we already know we'll never get such quality time. As I said I loved the story. I don't want it to change but we need a moment in the story that allow us to explore without this clock over our heads.

Here is where Johnny Silverhand became a liability. They had to work him into every quest, so they game won't function without him.

Imagine if you had the whole map at the start (or maybe if the lockdown lifted after a couple early missions). You then had to build up 'reputation' by doing various quests. At some point, you'll have done enough (yay! player choice for which ones to do) and _THEN_ you get the call from Dex starting the main events of the game.

 

[ciorex]

First of all, YAY I got to use that phrase!

Secondly, personally I think it's a mistake to have gone through the incredible lengths the devs went through to achieve creating Night City, to give me such an amazing open world to play in, but then narratively tell me I'm dying quickly. I mean, it just makes every side-job and gig ring a little hollow. I noticed it when I wanted to buy a particularly expensive car so I gigged pretty hard to earn the eddies and it suddenly struck me: What the hell am I doing? This makes no sense for my character in-game.

They built an incredible world for me to play in, then gave my character an in-game reason to not enjoy it, while at the same time trying to give me the player tons of reasons to explore and enjoy it.

I think I'd like the option of creating a character not tied to the main storyline.

The even more frustrating thing is that despite the fact that the main story line turns into "race agaisnt time to find a cure". in the end you don't even find one, so the entire premise of the story is essentially a waste of time.

And since Phantom Liberty is confirmed to be the only expansion, unless it contains some way for V to cheat death, there is no hope of survival. Honestly If I'd know before hand that my character would die in the end, no matter what I tried, I don't think I would of bought the game.

It also eliminates V as a protagonist for future sequels. It seems CDPR REALLY wanted CP2077s story and its characters to be a one time thing, which is a shame.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Imagine if you had the whole map at the start (or maybe if the lockdown lifted after a couple early missions). You then had to build up 'reputation' by doing various quests. At some point, you'll have done enough (yay! player choice for which ones to do) and _THEN_ you get the call from Dex starting the main events of the game.

Yep I imagine, but one issue :
Dex want to hire two unknow gonks mercs for the job. So indeed, the story don't really let you "build your rep" (at least, limit it to Watson)

 

[MartineDee]

You can build level and street cred all the way to both 50s before you enter Dex' car, thanks to respawning gangs.

 

[CTPhipps]

Here is where Johnny Silverhand became a liability. They had to work him into every quest, so they game won't function without him.

Imagine if you had the whole map at the start (or maybe if the lockdown lifted after a couple early missions). You then had to build up 'reputation' by doing various quests. At some point, you'll have done enough (yay! player choice for which ones to do) and _THEN_ you get the call from Dex starting the main events of the game.

That's not the way they built the game for whatever reason and very deliberately had the map open up only after you're dying.