Mages, their role and power (spoilers)

[sfinx]

Mages, their role and power (spoilers)

I would like to hear if you like role of mages and if you like/respect/understand them.

PS:

Spoiler

Don't take poll too seriously I will be glad for your answers and opinions about mages, just some poll would't say too much to me..

So far I feel like CDPR don't like mages (especially sorceresses) at all. I am quite disappointed and when I am disappointed I write long posts, so sorry for this one..

When I played W2, I was disappointed, because there wasn't any chance to join Lodge and help them directly. I liked their plan to create new state, even when devs reduced Lodge into Philippa's and Sheala's tool. Because they (Phil especially) is great strategist and they are powerful. But after game, Lodge is destroyed, brave Radovid can hide against dragon's anger and fire behind small shield and sorceresses have to run.

And Geralt's options? To help Philippa (without need to leave his best girlfriend on her own)? To reveal Letho's role and help them in Loc Muinne? Not! There was option to kill a dragon - because Geralt is known as dragon hunter... and next option was to let Sheala die, even when she barely talked with you. I would say, there will be also option to kill that fat pig, when you saved his life and he wanted to kill you after that and when he behaved like complete idiot, but no, there was only chance to walk away and let someone else to do that (with deep words towards you soul, how serious consequences you caused). Etc.

I destroyed Flamming rose, killed their leader, but in next game those fanatic idiots were strong again and ruled last episode of game. So what about mages, did they also restore their power and start new plans? No! They are hiding like a rats. On one hand they can destroy whole armies and one would say, there won't be power strong enough to make them serious troubles, especially when whole world is in war, but yet ... they are hunted and defeated by some reagular troops.

They are trapped in Novigrad - just this fact is quite funny - but devs probably find some easy way, how to capture someone, who can become invisible, who can destroy armies and defeat crowds, who can call storm and make blast great enough to be heard almost in whole world. Did I forget something? Yes ... there is ability well known to many mages - to teleport themselves nearly wherever they want, but now "closed gates" become serious problem for them.

BUT there is at least chance to save Keira, to help Triss and other mages and Dijkstra had quite good speech about some help for others. But is it really necessary to make from Geralt complete heartless idiot? Is it necessary to reply on his words with some stupid, not funny words? And if there was a chance to let sorceress(es) die, kill dragon and murder many people, is it necessary to give us only option -> to say: I am not kingslayer and some other (old and already dissuaded) bullsh** about "neutrality" in case of complete crazy brutal idiot, who wants to hunt down all mages, healers, sources,..? But you can cooperate with witch hunters and give Radovid informations (probably to let him torture and murder another sorceress, great..).
BTW: this quest came after one, where I killed all fanatic murderers in their fort and looked (with pleasure), how their master is dying. At this point, I want to come back to mages in troubles and ask how can one witcher and sorceress kill off whole fortress (and when - based on previous game and novels - 30 mages would be able to destry whole city), but they have to run away and stay hidden?

I haven' t finished game yet, but I just wanted to share my dissapointment on present and previous attitude towards mages. I still got in game replies and impression of bad mages, like they would be something special in world of lies, schemes, murders etc. At least I would expect the same chance to cooperate with each side. When you got chance to cooperate with Black ones and Emhyr (at least Vesemir had some wise words, when Geralt can loose his mind), why there isn't (wasn't) chance to cooperate more with mages (and now I don't mean just chance to save some people from death trap)?

 

[TheDespondentMind2]

I agree with you since both Sapkowski and CDPR have written themselves into a corner with mages. They have never any clear or palpable limits except the plot.

Sometimes they create portal on whims and destroy an army, later they have trouble with a few witchhunter scum. They can also mind control and read minds and yet let people like Emhyr even exist.

 

[Toyen]

When it comes to mages and the lodge, you might be in for a plot twist. Thats all Im gonna say : )

I also find it a bit strange that mages need to hide despite the fact they could take over Novigrad if they wanted.
But a reason for that might be that they are not very well organized and do not have anyone who would bring them together to do such thing.

But Witch Hunters can be quite clever, and if they can capture some of the most powerful mages then that might also discourage the less powerful ones from taking action and make them hide instead.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I agree with you since both Sapkowski and CDPR have written themselves into a corner with mages. They have never any clear or palpable limits except the plot.

Sometimes they create portal on whims and destroy an army, later they have trouble with a few witchhunter scum. They can also mind control and read minds and yet let people like Emhyr even exist.

Well, the solution to your confusion is that there are different kinds of mages with different levels of power. There are some very few very high class mages with a lot of power, like Vilgefortz, Tisseia de Vries, Philippa Eilhart, Franscesca Findabeir or Yennefer.

They can do quite a lot but alone (!!!) they cannot destroy an whole army for example. And for whatever they want to do, they have to draw power which is a quite complicated and risky endeavour in itself that can even kill you if you don't limit it (it leads to Yennefer's supposed death at the end of The Lady of the Lake, for example) and that depends on the place you are. And I can't recall any mage in the books who was able of mind control. Reading minds and telepathy, yes, but not controlling minds (the games invented that "feature" with Geralt's Axii sign, not the books).

"Normal" mages can do a whole lot less than for example Vilgefortz or Yennefer. They just lack the skill.

 

[Zyvik]

I love mages,sorceresses in particular Well,all of them except for Lytta Neyd.Hate that bitch with passion.

 

[Eesti]

yennefer studied necromancy and to revive a single dead dude required alot of power that it literally make a whole sacred place die and she cant teleport from the continent to skellige + the portals cant teleport an infinite number of people (Example the navigators of the wild hunt couldnt let their whole army pass or when you're helping margarita laux antille yennefer tells you that she cant teleport you both
if you read the battle of sodden hill casualities you will see that mages are powerful but that doesnt make them invincible

 

[carlos2033]

I woul love if there was option to support mages in this game as third side in this war not just Redania vs Nilfgard, at least on iorveth path we could have Upper Aerdin as mage state what was their initial plan, or even as canon on both paths, and instead escaping to Kovir we coul help them to go to their estate making it more powerful

 

[Lesota]

1) Triss could easly run away from Novigrad , but others can't. Not everyone as strong as she AND not everyone she's saving even mages, remember - Kalkstein, for example, was executed and he was an alchemist, not a mage. So in Novigrad you're saving week mages and alchemists, herbalists and etc, they can't teleport.

2) Top mages are powerful, but they more like long range artillery, yes they can annihilate you from the distance, but you won't cast a fireball on yourself. Sure they can kill people in close combat too but 1 strike and they're dead. In the witcher universe they don't have stone skin spell it seems.

3) Don't forget about http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Dimeritium if you want to disrupt their abilities in combat or take them as prisoners.

4) The most important thing - no one safe from sudden crossbow bolt or dagger in the back. Just don't give mages time to react.

 

[TheDespondentMind2]

Well, the solution to your confusion is that there are different kinds of mages with different levels of power. There are some very few very high class mages with a lot of power, like Vilgefortz, Tisseia de Vries, Philippa Eilhart, Franscesca Findabeir or Yennefer.

They can do quite a lot but alone (!!!) they cannot destroy an whole army for example. And for whatever they want to do, they have to draw power which is a quite complicated and risky endeavour in itself that can even kill you if you don't limit it (it leads to Yennefer's supposed death at the end of The Lady of the Lake, for example) and that depends on the place you are. And I can't recall any mage in the books who was able of mind control. Reading minds and telepathy, yes, but not controlling minds (the games invented that "feature" with Geralt's Axii sign, not the books).

"Normal" mages can do a whole lot less than for example Vilgefortz or Yennefer. They just lack the skill.

But would you really be shocked that a mage can mind control? For F sake Phillipa mind controls a Dragon after all and turns into an Owl,Lita Neyd predicts future or finds anybody or anything, Yennefer creates "drones", programs gold to turn into shit on right circumstances, she turns dozens of peasants into flowers(?) with her leg (the same peasants who trapped a powerful dragon, oh Sapkowski was that dumb...), Vilgeforc regenerates his eye, magically learns to fight better than Geralt, melts a higher vampire and fights Geralt and Yennefer at the same time and Avallach flattens an ENTIRE FORREST.

EDIT:

OP I think your polls is unfair, mages often step out of line and have schemes of their own which involve rather despicable things, I really don't see them any better then most of the rulers since most of the rulers are not Radovid.

I must say that it was incredibly stupid how Triss (on purpose) and Yennefer couldn't break that rabble in Rivia.

 

[Redemyr]

Watch w2 intro.

 

[TheDespondentMind2]

Watch w2 intro.

Not every mage gets ambushed by an well informed and prepared assassin (prepared by other mages mind you) that also happens to be a incredibly experienced witcher that fought the wild hunt.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

But would you really be shocked that a mage can mind control? For F sake Phillipa mind controls a Dragon after all and turns into an Owl,Lita Neyd predicts future or finds anybody or anything, Yennefer creates "drones", programs gold to turn into shit on right circumstances, she turns dozens of peasants into flowers(?) with her leg (the same peasants who trapped a powerful dragon, oh Sapkowski was that dumb...), Vilgeforc regenerates his eye, magically learns to fight better than Geralt, melts a higher vampire and fights Geralt and Yennefer at the same time and Avallach flattens an ENTIRE FORREST.

Ahem, are you aware that I restricted myself to the books? Philippa doesn't mind control a dragon in the books and Avallac'h doesn't flatten an entire forest. Sapkowski had nothing to do with these things...

And the peasants who were turned into other creatures by Yen, they trapped the dragon with a ploy. I don't see the connection to magic or why Sapkowski is "dumb" because of that, sorry.

And yes, Vilgefortz is the most powerful mage of all, as it is clearly stated in the books. He can do a lot of things other mages can't do.

And what's the point of this anyway? You complain that there is no practical limitation to magic itself? That there is no vanilla rulebook to magic and what mage X should be able to do or not? I think magic is pretty well constructed in Sapkowski's books, not without flaws, but still better than in a lot of other works of fantasy...

 

[Redemyr]

Not every mage gets ambushed by an well informed and prepared assassin (prepared by other mages mind you) that also happens to be a incredibly experienced witcher that fought the wild hunt.

True And letho is awesome in any case.

As I see it there aren't that many of the OP kind of mages around. Mostly though its about them being dissorganized, and Niifgard broke their power in W2

 

[TheDespondentMind2]

Ahem, are you aware that I restricted myself to the books? Philippa doesn't mind control a dragon in the books and Avallac'h doesn't flatten an entire forest. Sapkowski had nothing to do with these things...

And the peasants who were turned into other creatures by Yen, they trapped the dragon with a ploy. I don't see the connection to magic or why Sapkowski is "dumb" because of that, sorry.

And yes, Vilgefortz is the most powerful mage of all, as it is clearly stated in the books. He can do a lot of things other mages can't do.

And what's the point of this anyway? You complain that there is no practical limitation to magic itself? That there is no vanilla rulebook to magic and what mage X should be able to do or not? I think magic is pretty well constructed in Sapkowski's books, not without flaws, but still better than in a lot of other works of fantasy...

Actually that's exactly what I am saying, mages have no limits both in the books and in the games, whenever writers need something they just do it via magic.

And what ploy, I remember the Dragon even used fire against them and they still trapped him, the same Dragon that defeated a excellent knight and professional dragon hunters both human and dwarven.

So Yennefer did more with one of her legs than a very powerful and exceptional Dragon.

 

[Zyvik]

I must say that it was incredibly stupid how Triss (on purpose) and Yennefer couldn't break that rabble in Rivia.

Well,prior to that,Yen was tortured for months and her fingers were a bloody mess.She just wasn't in a good shape to cast powerful spells.

 

[Scholdarr.452]

Actually that's exactly what I am saying, mages have no limits both in the books and in the games, whenever writers need something they just do it via magic.

That's not at all what you're saying but it doesn't matter anyway.

And what ploy, I remember the Dragon even used fire against them and they still trapped them, the same Dragon that defeated a excellent knight and professional dragon hunters both human and dwarven.

So Yennefer did more with one of her legs than a very powerful and exceptional Dragon.

Why do you think a dragon should be more powerful than Yennefer?

And of course a story is always constructed and many things depend on the respective situation. Theoretical "who is more powerful, X or Y" discussions are imo rather pointless when talking about a predefined narrative.

 

[Charcharo]

I got from the books that unlike other mages Vilgefortz was both a trained veteran soldier AND the closest thing to an actual battle mage (through and through) we have seen.

That and he was fighting an at least somewhat tired Geralt and a quite tortured and weak Yen. Still a feat, he might be one of the most powerful combatants in the Witcher universe...

Unlike... Lord Arthas Cosplayer Try-Hard with 12 Lines...

 

[Scholdarr.452]

I got from the books that unlike other mages Vilgefortz was both a trained veteran soldier AND the closest thing to an actual battle mage (through and through) we have seen.

That and he was fighting an at least somewhat tired Geralt and a quite tortured and weak Yen. Still a feat, he might be one of the most powerful combatants in the Witcher universe...

Unlike... Lord Arthas Cosplayer Try-Hard with 12 Lines...

Vilgefortz was easily THE most powerful singular being in the witcher world. And he actually was "just" a mage. Every combat skill he had was of magical nature. He beat a perfectly healthy Geralt to crap on Thanedd. He could have killed him there but he was too arrogant and self-absorbed for that (and obviously Sapkowski still needed Geralt... ). In the end Geralt could only kill him by surprising him, by using the typical hybris of people who think of themselves that they are much more powerful than everyone else and that nobody could stop them. If not for Fringilla Vigo, there wouldn't be any Geralt or Yennefer no more...

---------- Updated at 07:39 PM ----------

I got from the books that unlike other mages Vilgefortz was both a trained veteran soldier AND the closest thing to an actual battle mage (through and through) we have seen.

That and he was fighting an at least somewhat tired Geralt and a quite tortured and weak Yen. Still a feat, he might be one of the most powerful combatants in the Witcher universe...

Unlike... Lord Arthas Cosplayer Try-Hard with 12 Lines...

Vilgefortz was easily THE most powerful singular being in the witcher world. And he actually was "just" a mage. Every combat skill he had was of magical nature. He beat a perfectly healthy Geralt to crap on Thanedd. He could have killed him there but he was too arrogant and self-absorbed for that (and obviously Sapkowski still needed Geralt... ). In the end Geralt could only kill him by surprising him, by using the typical hybris of people who think of themselves that they are much more powerful than everyone else and that nobody could stop them. If not for Fringilla Vigo, there wouldn't be any Geralt or Yennefer no more...

 

[Ljesnjanin]

If not for Fringilla Vigo, there wouldn't be any Geralt or Yennefer no more...

:cheers2:

 

[Frybread]

I envy mages their power, but I don't like how they seem to hold themselves above the rest of humanity. I also dislike how the sorceresses tried to rule the North from behind the scenes. The witch hunt in TW3 was overboard, but nothing good was going to come from the discovery of their meddling in TW2.