Yeah, the Yrden thing is confusing. I'm not sure whats the difference.
The base version of Quen is a "fire and forget" spell that provides passive protection the next time you are hit. The upgraded version of Quen requires active usage, it doesnt look like Geralt can attack while channeling the bubble but it provides protection from multiple attacks. I can see a case where the base version is better for 1v1 and the alternative more useful when you are against large groups.
Axii is hard to say without seeing them. Maybe its a case where the alternate has a shorter timer or takes longer to cast.
If you look at this IGN video it does look like we either still have access to both skills or you can swap skills in the middle of combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lWhhPxL3lk
The base Yrden has an area of effect that slows down enemies that enter, the upgraded version is placed in a single spot and can capture only one enemy, but it can immobilize it, thus the alternate mode and not a straight up upgrade.
Whats confusing is that all the alternate forms are listed in the second tier of the Sign skill tree. for Yrden the description says:
To me it looks like that's an upgrade to the basic version of Yrden.
There are skills that can upgrade each version of the signs, both default and alternative, which is very nice.
To my understanding, you don't have the alternate forms from the beginning but have to unlock them in the second tier. So if you have to spend 8 skillpoints on the first tier to unlock the second and want to have all the alternate forms, you probably need to spend 13 points in total before being able to cast each and every sign.
Right, but its on the same tier where every other sign unlocks its alternate version. If you look at the skill trees there is a basic pattern where:
Tier 1 - Upgrade to base Sign
Tier 2 - Unlock Alternate Sign
Tier 3 - Sign Intensity increase
Tier 4 - +New effect added
Yrden doesn't seem to follow that pattern, which is why it is confusing since its alternate mode doesnt appear to need an unlock or maybe it is earned through some other means... or maybe the translation is wrong.
Here's a List of the Witcher 3 versions: http://thewitcher3.wiki.fextralife.com/Signs
Yeah, it could be that some signs have the alternate mode available by default, but it could also be that the information for the skills is incomplete.
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I don't know if it was answered but I remember some people asking if there is a way to change signs without opening the radial menu while playing with a controller.
They confirmed that it is possible in this video at 10:48 (german)
For me personaly a big relief considering I want to play a sign build.
They confirmed that it is possible in this video at 10:48 (german)
For me personaly a big relief considering I want to play a sign build.
Question for a Dev Signs
I would love to know if we can switch signs without having to pull up signs/bomb menu everytime i have to use other skill?
Perhaps the D-Pad can scroll through the signs?
Something like the 35 minute video? https://youtu.be/gdinzNN93-M?t=10m52s look at the signs been switched without having to pull up that menu.
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Thanks but i dont speak German what do they say? Do they say which button is used to change the signs on the go?
I would love to know if we can switch signs without having to pull up signs/bomb menu everytime i have to use other skill?
Perhaps the D-Pad can scroll through the signs?
Something like the 35 minute video? https://youtu.be/gdinzNN93-M?t=10m52s look at the signs been switched without having to pull up that menu.
---------- Updated at 11:38 PM ----------
Thanks but i dont speak German what do they say? Do they say which button is used to change the signs on the go?
From what I’ve seen on the recent twitch-stream I get the impression that signs are somewhat “underwhelming”, both in terms of intensity (damage dealt to opponents) as well as graphics-wise. Now don’t get me wrong, I’ve played both previous titles and I don’t want magical signs to look like fancy fireworks (like, you know, DA:I) or expected them to blow an opponent into pieces like a mage’s fully charged fireball does. But it could have been a little bit more of eye-candy.
This goes especially for IGNI. In TW2, igni was kind of like a small fireball which could be upgraded so it would explode upon hitting the target, dealing damage to surrounding opponents. On higher levels with a lot of vigor points you were able to throw those things around and watch everything burn. Now, igni has this strange conic sparkle-wave effect which, while leaving yellow-glowing webs on the ground symbolizing scorched earth or whatever, doesn’t even burn the plants and grass the slightest bit. Igni occasionally sets targets on fire and burning targets are busy trying to get the flames off and cannot attack you. Still, they apparently don’t take as much damage as you might expect from someone who has been set ablaze. On said twitch-stream, the player spammed igni three times in a row at the same group of bandits and I think one of them didn’t even start burning. Also, the alternate version was as effective as throwing matches at your opponents. And I take it that this has been an upgraded version of igni.
Then there is AARD which was really cool in TW2. You could use it to push opponents over cliffs and it sometimes stunned them, enabling you to hit for an instant kill. While we haven’t seen the quite impressive alternate version of it in actual gameplay footage (for some reason it was used on twitch, but not against opponents), we know that the basic version can at least throw opponents to the ground. I think it is possible to immediately kill them in that state, as the monsters-trailer suggests. Does anyone know if it’s still possible to push them over cliffs as well?
The remaining signs were hardly used in any of the recent gameplay footage and YRDEN was even completely absent on twitch. We still haven’t really seen the two versions of Yrden and the alternate version of Quen was, like 360°-Aard, only shown out of combat on twitch. Currently, it’s hard to say anything about those two.
Fittingly at the end of this post: finishers. We have seen some awesome decapitations when Geralt was done with a bunch of bandits, but so far there have been no finishers related to signs. In TW2 there were at least some finishers you could unlock by using the adrenaline-bar that made use of signs. So, has anyone seen some or has it been confirmed that sign-finishers will/ won’t be in the game?
I take it from the books that signs were always supposed to be used in addition to sword fighting, to complement the witcher's physical skills, but never as the main way of fighting against monsters or humans and I like it that way. But if the signs are really as weak as they appear to me right now, I can't see me using them as often as in TW2. Does it make sense in an rpg to implement a whole skill tree dedicated to magical signs if in the end using your sword is like 90% more effective? Why should I invest in that? Please let me know how you like what you've seen of the signs so far, especially when it comes to actual usability in combat.
This goes especially for IGNI. In TW2, igni was kind of like a small fireball which could be upgraded so it would explode upon hitting the target, dealing damage to surrounding opponents. On higher levels with a lot of vigor points you were able to throw those things around and watch everything burn. Now, igni has this strange conic sparkle-wave effect which, while leaving yellow-glowing webs on the ground symbolizing scorched earth or whatever, doesn’t even burn the plants and grass the slightest bit. Igni occasionally sets targets on fire and burning targets are busy trying to get the flames off and cannot attack you. Still, they apparently don’t take as much damage as you might expect from someone who has been set ablaze. On said twitch-stream, the player spammed igni three times in a row at the same group of bandits and I think one of them didn’t even start burning. Also, the alternate version was as effective as throwing matches at your opponents. And I take it that this has been an upgraded version of igni.
Then there is AARD which was really cool in TW2. You could use it to push opponents over cliffs and it sometimes stunned them, enabling you to hit for an instant kill. While we haven’t seen the quite impressive alternate version of it in actual gameplay footage (for some reason it was used on twitch, but not against opponents), we know that the basic version can at least throw opponents to the ground. I think it is possible to immediately kill them in that state, as the monsters-trailer suggests. Does anyone know if it’s still possible to push them over cliffs as well?
The remaining signs were hardly used in any of the recent gameplay footage and YRDEN was even completely absent on twitch. We still haven’t really seen the two versions of Yrden and the alternate version of Quen was, like 360°-Aard, only shown out of combat on twitch. Currently, it’s hard to say anything about those two.
Fittingly at the end of this post: finishers. We have seen some awesome decapitations when Geralt was done with a bunch of bandits, but so far there have been no finishers related to signs. In TW2 there were at least some finishers you could unlock by using the adrenaline-bar that made use of signs. So, has anyone seen some or has it been confirmed that sign-finishers will/ won’t be in the game?
I take it from the books that signs were always supposed to be used in addition to sword fighting, to complement the witcher's physical skills, but never as the main way of fighting against monsters or humans and I like it that way. But if the signs are really as weak as they appear to me right now, I can't see me using them as often as in TW2. Does it make sense in an rpg to implement a whole skill tree dedicated to magical signs if in the end using your sword is like 90% more effective? Why should I invest in that? Please let me know how you like what you've seen of the signs so far, especially when it comes to actual usability in combat.
Barring special cases like pushing them off a cliff, Igni and Yrden have always been the only signs you could use to directly kill an opponent. Most of the time, the signs were indeed complementary to the sword, creating an opportunity for you to deal better blows with the sword (eventually finishing them in the case of Aard): with Quen defending you, you can focus on offense, while Aard and Axii open the guard of the affected foe or give you some breathing room. This trend seems even stronger in TW3, since I think Yrden does no damage directly either but when upgraded increases your sword damage within the circle (and slow down ennemies and destroy arrows on top of that). Even Igni seemed more useful for putting foes on fire, leaving them vulnerable, than actually killing them. The alternate "flamethrower" version usefulness may be in keeping foes at bay while grinding at their health. Also, with upgrade Igni melts and decreasethe armor of opponents. Again, complement to swords.
So yes indeed, whatever tree you specialize in, Geralt is always a swordsman at heart. But does it mean that the martial tree is superior? Not necessarily. For instance you can take martial skills to buff light damages, heavy damages, and parry arrows. Or you can buff your Yrden, which will increase all your damages, destroy arrows and slow down ennemies in its area of effect. Or you can take alchemy skills that increases the effect and duration of your potions, which can be used to increase your damage and slow down ennemies, among other things. Against an heavily armored opponent, you can use a powerful cleave or just melt his armor with Igni. Or push him off a cliff with an upgraded Aard. When under attack, you can parry and riposte, or you can maintain the alternate Quen which when fully upgraded will heal you and reflect some damage back to your attackers.
The goal is nearly always to kill your ennemies better with a sword. But the means to achieve it vary depending on your choice of skills.
Concerning the fireworks, Igni is cute but a bit underwhelming I agree. Alchemical bombs, on the other hand, seem brutal.
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Let's see....
For Igni we have the "basic" version setting fire to enemies in front of you. I guess we can again - like in TW1/2 - increase the range of the sign.
As for the 2 special versions of the sign we have the "fire radius" on one hand getting multiple enemies (in the SoD Trailer we saw Eskel do it) and this one seems to scorch the earth a little and have a chance of setting the enemies on fire. At he same time, and it makes sense for me, since the effect is more spread and intended for crowd control it makes way less damage. On the other hand we have the flamethrower which looks to me (no actual evidence yet) to make more damage on a concentrated area while having less effect on another enemy, meaning it is harder to deal with multiple enemies that way, and they might be able to "interrupt" you while you do it. Seems interesting and balanced for me, if the damage/area effect ratio is done right.
For Aard we seem to know only one of the special effects and not the other. The "basic" version again is basically the air version of igni, a blast with a special knockdown/stun effect and yes we CAN throw enemies off cliffs the devs confirmed that. Insta kill I do not know. The Aard special ability I know of is the "Aard ground blast" which is basically knocking enemies down in a 360° radius. Can be useful - IMO - when dealing with huge groups of enemies. You can kill one of them, relocate, maybe take a potion, all while they are knocked down. You can also physically free yourself from being "cornered in".
The "basic" effect of Quen (which has this time a VERY long duration it seems) is mainly to take in multiple hits and reduce the damage of those incoming hits to almost nothing (not nothing at all, but it reduced the hit a lot). We have seen the special effect of Quen in the beginning when the Griffin gameplay first appeared and later on in the "The World of the Witcher" gameplay advertisement trailer with that woman explaining "At CD Project Red..." you know what I mean. It is basically a golden bubble, a sphere around you that monsters do not seem to be able to physically cross until it is down. We saw in one of the first Griffin demos that the Griffin crushed down on Geralt and he cast advanced Quen in that moment and the sphere appeared and the Griffin crashed into the shpere like it was an actual physical structure and fell on the ground interrupted in it's flight. Seems to be a good way to keep monsters away from you and to take down flying creatures charging you from above. I don't know the second effect.
Yrden we know has a time-slowing effect now. That is very unusual, and not what we saw the first time, but it seems that is it's basic use. The time gets slowed down and you are not getting slowed down, you can move faster than your enemies (basically like an advanced and not-annoying version of the blizzard potion in TW1). As for Yrdens special abilities, no idea. I think a developer mentioned that one version of Yrden has an effect that actively HURTS the enemy when he comes in contact with it. The SoD trailer seem to suggest something similar. But I don not know if this would negate the time-slowing effect, since damage+slow time seems a little bit OP to me. On the other hand, the signs in general were always OP in the Witcher and CDPR themselves said they wanted to make the signs "more effective" because a lot of players seemed to want that.
Now Axxi. We know it can calm down Roach reducing it's fear. We know the "basic" version seems to cause confusion and stun the enemy for a short amount of time. The "special ability" seems to be either mind control or `?. No idea what the second is. I think Axxi is the one that was changed the least in terms of effects, though I think they changed the balance. For example that now instead pf getting "knocked back" if you pressing the button for the sign we do actually stun them, and if we hold down the "special ability" of the signs are tirggered. For Aard the radius blast or for Igni the wave/flamethrower it seems that Axxi simply has the mind control and another one that we do not have any idea what it is.
As for the journalists and other sources saying the signs are very "weak". Well, to be honest in a game where there are 70 abilities of which we can only choose 12 it makes sense to believe that most journalists might not have leveled the signs up a lot, especially not in sign intensity or in terms of combining skills of the same tree/color for any bonuses. So it seems likely the signs were "weak" because they didn't put a lot of skill points in them and because they had a limited amount of time to play the game and assign skill points obviously.
(I wonder what happened to helithrope.... I guess they combined it with Yrden now....?)
That all being said, I will finish with a simple sentence that I believe to be true, at least in my case and the way I play the games.
"The sign tree is the tree of the tactician. Because no matter if full-signs or (even better) a hybrid, you will always have tactical room to maneuver and more ways to keep your enemies at bay and weaken their defenses while you plan the offensive."
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Signs absolutely broken?
Well.. similar to how it was previously, specializing in signs seems to be completely trivializing 99% of the encounters. Who needs sword damage when you can keep aarding everyone over and over and poking them once once they're down? Or just burn them to a crisp if they won't lie down? I'm playing on the penultim difficulty and I hardly ever need to use the swords for anything other than finishing people who are already burning or waiting for me to poke them once.
Meanwhile even the lowly lvl 5 bandit is adept at parrying every single one of your fast swings. I don't know guys, I'm 18 points in the magic tree and if I keep investing in it at this rate Geralt is sure to rename to White Wizard. Signs are supposed to complement swords, but I can easily just annihilate everyone without swinging them once. Is Death March for me or does the last difficulty just expect you to exploit sings?
Well.. similar to how it was previously, specializing in signs seems to be completely trivializing 99% of the encounters. Who needs sword damage when you can keep aarding everyone over and over and poking them once once they're down? Or just burn them to a crisp if they won't lie down? I'm playing on the penultim difficulty and I hardly ever need to use the swords for anything other than finishing people who are already burning or waiting for me to poke them once.
Meanwhile even the lowly lvl 5 bandit is adept at parrying every single one of your fast swings. I don't know guys, I'm 18 points in the magic tree and if I keep investing in it at this rate Geralt is sure to rename to White Wizard. Signs are supposed to complement swords, but I can easily just annihilate everyone without swinging them once. Is Death March for me or does the last difficulty just expect you to exploit sings?
I'm not sure this is exactly a problem. It comes down to play styles and as it seems you enjoy your full sign build and with this game even more so then W2 it seems all possible configurations are viable on Death March. I bet at least one person would argue that swords can be just as overpowered. And I know there has been several posts of the crazy HP alchemy can get it. (18k give or take. Does sacrifice dps though). In the end I'm glad to be able to play the way I enjoy and still feel powerful.
Better then being forced into swords etc.
Better then being forced into swords etc.