I think it'd be cool if somewhere in the latter part of the game if Geralt somehow gets into contact with Eredin and Eredin antagonizes Geralt like at the end of TW1. Making every decision that he's made seem like it was terrible and sowed destruction. A way to plant doubt into Geralt's head and make it even more personal between the two.
The problem I see with Dijkstra choice is that for great many people who went with Roche in TW2, he and Ves are old friends. To kill them would be very extreme. It is not like people must always disclose everything to Geralt when they ask for his help. Dijkstra is a new character in the games, while in books he and Geralt weren't exactly friends. It would be much more plausible to go with Dijkstra's plan if it does not involve killing close friends.
Yes, I agree that to go with deaths of characters here is not warranted. Dijkstra sure learned his lesson on Thanedd, with a broken leg and all, and would prefer to leave the continent again, this time for good. There should be some other resolution for Roche and Thaler as well, without outright killing them. All these gratuitous deaths look kinda cheap here.
My hope is Dijkstra will show up in the Witcher 4 and point out the Dijkstra there was a Doppler.
No, in the Witcher 4 we'll find out that Triss actually left for Kovir on the ship and Triss that appeared on the pier was actually Dudu looking for some diversion...
There is a need for improvement in Witcher 3 storyline, particularly relationship and how to smoothly exit the immersion.
You can create multiple similar thread, and the sentiment will still be the same; WE WANT MORE ANSWERS
Right now what most fans are experiencing is the lack of emotional closure and the sudden exit in immersion. Imagine you're riding a roller coaster and you've reached the peak. Instead of smooth downhill ride, you're now plunging down 180 degree downwards (more or less).
I don't mind about other characters but what really kicks me in the nut is the way how CDPR handled the romance content. This alone is the most emotional and engaging part of Witcher 3. The way how we parted in the pre-epilogue without saying a proper farewell to Yen/Triss or even visit them (if possible) was really a .... (insert your own sentence. not in the mood to attract mod's attention)
After hundred of hours of playing, you have no idea where they are then suddenly the epilogue pops up saying you've settled down with them. Seriously, WTF? Don't have to mention how empty the world is after the final battle. If they really want the game to end, at least put a decent closure to Geralt's adventure.
I've never played a game where the epilogue creates more questions than answers, and to me Witcher 3 is first of its kind.
You can create multiple similar thread, and the sentiment will still be the same; WE WANT MORE ANSWERS
Right now what most fans are experiencing is the lack of emotional closure and the sudden exit in immersion. Imagine you're riding a roller coaster and you've reached the peak. Instead of smooth downhill ride, you're now plunging down 180 degree downwards (more or less).
I don't mind about other characters but what really kicks me in the nut is the way how CDPR handled the romance content. This alone is the most emotional and engaging part of Witcher 3. The way how we parted in the pre-epilogue without saying a proper farewell to Yen/Triss or even visit them (if possible) was really a .... (insert your own sentence. not in the mood to attract mod's attention)
After hundred of hours of playing, you have no idea where they are then suddenly the epilogue pops up saying you've settled down with them. Seriously, WTF? Don't have to mention how empty the world is after the final battle. If they really want the game to end, at least put a decent closure to Geralt's adventure.
I've never played a game where the epilogue creates more questions than answers, and to me Witcher 3 is first of its kind.
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I think it's on a lot of people's minds. I for one agree..
It's a delicate balance. We are playing Geralt but Ciri is the ultimate deciding factor in the end. CDPR had to ride a line that made the player feel like they were choosing an ending but that still felt like Ciri was the character making the decision. On the one hand Ciri is young and inexperienced and she doesn't have a full understanding of what she can do. On the other hand her arc is about growing up and making tough decisions like we, as Geralt have to do. They kind of achieve that when she decides to fight the White Frost, however clumsy that ending is it does give her a major choice. So my example solution was to make her feel incredibly vulnerable (Avallac'h betrays her) at the last minute. Another way they could play a final choice is to jump the player into Ciri at the last part of the game (I was actually kind of expecting it when she went through the portal). This of course would mean that the whole ending with the White Frost would need to be altered and/or expanded.
Right you are buddy! For me, and many others here, this trilogy pretty much raised the bar for story telling RPGs so CDPR should have put MORE into the epilogues...I'm not expecting something along the lines of LOTR:RoTK but nor pretty much away from that honestly...I mean there's a lot of cool characters and to top it all Geralt of Mutha' Fuck!n' Rivia that deserved / demanded a better epilogue...maybe something like what they did in the Prologue but providing closure for Geralt and his buddies/love interest...CDPR did it for Ciri...why couldn't this have been done for Geralt as well???? We've played as Geralt not Ciri for 3 long-assed games..
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..shoving the White Frost in there just after you defeat the Wild Hunt (and get no sense of satisfaction / completion / revenge) was a terrible idea...a lazy plot choice...
Ciri is physically young but not inexperienced, very far from it. She's making really hard decisions for 6 years already. You cannot judge her by the standards of our modern relaxed life and compare her to some college girl. When she was a child she experienced being kidnapped, surviving alone in the wilderness, severe thirst and hunger. She lived without parental care, trained by various people. As a child she was trained harshly as a witcher and received some magical training. By the age of 15 she was robbing and killing people. She experiences severe physical abuse and was forcibly drugged. She visited many dimensions and traveled through time. She experienced horrors of war... Young and inexperienced? She's not some damsel in distress. She is more experienced than any modern human will ever be. From what she's gone through she has the maturity level comparable to 40 years old war veteran. The way she was represented in the last part of the game is just wrong, period.
The Ciri of the books is sexually and mentally traumatized by the end of the books, having experienced both PTSD from Cintra as well as later trauma from Leo Bonhart situation.
She's not a Space Marine but a person run through a horrific wringer.
I think that maybe the writers wanted or tried to go with the "superficially ataraxic survivor from trauma" for the game.
With repressed trauma and whatnot, forced as result, to unconsciously de-value and minimise sex as an act as sort of normalisation coping process.
Hinted at in the scene where she wants to have casual sex with the random stable boy she just met 1 hour prior.
That's a valid reading, though, this is unfortunately not really the series to do that as plenty of gamers would go for it just because, "Hey, sex opportunity. Go for it."
I don't remember, is it a choice you can make or does she spontanously suggest that regardless?That's a valid reading, though, this is unfortunately not really the series to do that as plenty of gamers would go for it just because, "Hey, sex opportunity. Go for it."
You're right, I was pretty tired when I wrote that. I think I meant that she has less experience when compared to Geralt (although she has probably experienced things that he never will). The point was she looks up to him. That said, it needs something more to make the situation more believable.
Yeah, it either needs to be expanded on or scrapped for something else.
@Gerald01 It's one of those implied but not very clear choices, I believe the dialogue option is something along the lines of "I'm not in that much of a hurry".
I thought it was a choice I made.
At least in the context of playing Ciri complimenting Skjall and pleased by his attention. I actually thought that kind of made it MORE so, though, as it wasn't so much, "Ciri is sexually liberated by being raised by Geralt and Yennefer" than "Ciri having been battered, beaten, and tortured her entire life thinks sex is a proper reward for not trying to hurt her."
That's just my impression, though.
I could be misremembering, though.
@willow @UndiscoveredAdv
Ok. Still it's not entirely on the player, and supposedly in character for her to do so.
Not at all like Gerald walking into Cripple Kate's and having fun. And even that means it's in character for him to do so, because as we discussed Witcher series doesn't let players go too far off the beaten path vs estabilished lore and characters.
So, an indirect and fumous choice still could "work" in the context of what I hypothesised (keep in mind it's probably not the case though).
Even then, it'd be still "better" than her being perfectly normal and vanilla, with all the traumatic stuff swept under a rug, as far as the writing is concerned.
Surely it's not the "sexually oppressed wymyn encounters niceness for the first time and after an emotional struggle for the first time lets herself experience romance for the first time" kind of thing
Ok. Still it's not entirely on the player, and supposedly in character for her to do so.
Not at all like Gerald walking into Cripple Kate's and having fun. And even that means it's in character for him to do so, because as we discussed Witcher series doesn't let players go too far off the beaten path vs estabilished lore and characters.
So, an indirect and fumous choice still could "work" in the context of what I hypothesised (keep in mind it's probably not the case though).
Even then, it'd be still "better" than her being perfectly normal and vanilla, with all the traumatic stuff swept under a rug, as far as the writing is concerned.
Surely it's not the "sexually oppressed wymyn encounters niceness for the first time and after an emotional struggle for the first time lets herself experience romance for the first time" kind of thing
This is one of the major issues I've had with Ciri and her relationship with Geralt. Considering it's affecting pretty much the very bone and marrow of the story, I'd like to continue deeper with some of my thoughts.
To me, the the main cause for misunderstanding CDPR's intentions, and thus separating these decisions to objective and subjective ones is the lack of consistency.
In a few occasions I'll elaborate on later, the "right" decision has been considered the wrong one. There is also a certain lack of gravity, to make the player realize what they're about to say is very important, especially when certain other situations were deemed unimportant, like supporting her elven friends by stealing horses.
Just like in a basketball game, it's not about the written rules, but rather how the referees interpret them and stay consistent on those interpretations throughout the game, the same applies in Witcher 3 storytelling. It wouldn't matter as much if CDPR strayed from the rules and relationship terms with Geralt from the books, as long as they showed consistency in how the player affects the relationship throughout the game.
But let's get into it, step by step and see what is creating the problem, and what could be done to remedy it.
1. You have to have a snowball fight with Ciri.
This is the only "wrong" choice I've made in my first play through, and it comes down to simply misphrasing Geralt's intentions when he says "Relax, you don't have to be good at everything". And then it turns out he didn't mean to elevate Ciri's incredible and constant burden/pressure and make her realize it's OK to be human, but rather go on a sulk piss.
Now, what caught me by surprise is "Mass Effect" type of dialog option, where a character is offered one thing, then does/says something completely different. It's just not what I thought it would be, and it didn't lead where I thought it'd lead.
Let's look at Ciri's emotional state at that time. She's shown by far the highest level of distress and turmoil during the entire game, due to Vesemir's death. It looked absolutely soul crushing. If Ciri was a child, a simple distraction like snowball fight would be understandable.
But Ciri is an adult, and adults perceive such sorrow on a much deeper level, due to being able to comprehend the gravity and consequences of the situation.
I may be subjective here, and I can see how Geralt making up for lost time with Ciri and having a snowball fight could actually work, sort of removing Ciri from that time and place and temporarily placing her into another. Although, to me it's more like offering to a crying woman at a funeral to play Super Mario.
If CDPR would consider adjusting this major decision point, I'd suggest to leave the drinking part, but modify it so it at least represents a "neutral" choice, or a good one. And there is some serious missed opportunity here, just think about it.
When Geralt and Ciri sit down to get drunk, Eskel and Lambert could've joined in, true to their Kaer Morhen custom, and turn glum atmosphere into a bright one. They could reminisce of good times with Vesemir and cheer Ciri up, while at the same time processing Vesemir's passing like adults. After they've had a few, Lambert pulls out Vesemir's hat, puts it on Ciri's head and exclaims due to recent vacancy, it's time to make Ciri an official witcher/witcheress. Everyone else toasts to the best idea of the evening and they all drag their drunken asses to the elemental stone shrine (where Geralt went with Lambert before), on the way fighting the trolls in their drunken state. That scene ends with Ciri and Geralt sitting together, staring in to the mountains and both proclaiming they miss Vesemir.
In the morning, Yennefer and Avallac'h find them passed out on the site, with Lambert sleeping on top of Eskel, and Ciri on top of Geralt. Yen's shaking her head and Avallac'h offering a snarky remark "It's amazing you humans survived at all, let alone rule this word...", as the camera zooms out to show the elemental stone shrine with Vesemir's hat on it.
2. You have to refuse payment from Emhyr
I've never gotten this far, as an avid books fan, it never crossed my mind to encourage her go back to Emhyr. But I'd like to discuss the moment before that, where Ciri decides Imlerith must die.
This, to me, is one of the most character defining decisions Ciri makes, and it bothered me to no end when Geralt decided to steal her thunder. Not only is he preventing her from being herself and making her own decisions, it's completely against the CDPR's "philosophy" that letting Ciri making her own decisions is good. A major consistency breakdown.
The way I see it, Ciri's world turned upside down when Vesemir died, and she obviously could not possibly begin to cope with anything else in her life until she's found some way to express her anger, and take control of her life back, in a manner of saying.
It was absolutely crucial that she kills Imlerith and with Geralt taking that away from her, he did no better than step in front of her to protect her against the Lodge, in their later encounter.
If CDPR would ever consider adjusting this for consistency sake, if nothing else, I'd suggest reversing the roles in that fight. Let Ciri fight Imlerith, after all, how can she be a strong, capable, self dependent person Geralt and Yen want her to be, if she's not allowed to fight her own fights. And it's not like Geralt fighting the crones is completely out of place. He's got some unfinished business, especially after getting obviously emotionally attached to the Bloody Baron, and possibly getting a really depressing ending there. This surely gives Geralt enough to find satisfaction in dealing with them.
3. You have to let Ciri talk to the Lodge on her own.
This, I thought, was very well done, I've completely understood CDPR's intentions here, and was satisfied/amused with the outcome of letting her go alone.
4. You have to let Ciri ransack Avallac'h's laboratory
There is a multiple consistency and lore breakdown here. Ciri is portrayed like a vulnerable teenager, susceptible to the venom mean girls in her class are spreading. That Ann Elle woman is a stranger, means noting to Ciri and is obviously jealous/buthurt about Avallac'h spending so much time with her.
The character the Ciri is, "someone who's endured more than a 40 year old war veteran", someone who's been beaten down and abused since early age, someone who's found an incredible fire during her teen years with the "Rats", there is no way in her she'd just stand there and take it.
She would've exploded in a storm of anger, venom and malice doubled to that of the elven woman. She would let her have it and then some and maybe even headbutt her or fake to make her jump in fear. She would've shown that she is the daughter of Yennefer, the iciest, stormy bitch when provoked.
Of this temperament we have proof of, from CDPR themselves, in Ciri's solo encounter with the Lodge, where she made Philippa Eilhart go pale.
Now, if CDPR would ever decide to adjust this, there is actually room for two decisions to be made here by Geralt, and a HUGE missed opportunity.
Choice number one: As the elven woman is nearing the end of her speech, Ciri is looking at her and then at Geralt, her expression "is this bitch for real?"
Now players can decide if Geralt steps forward to defend Ciri, or takes a ceremonial bow, like he was thought by the Nilfgaardian butler (to Yen's amusement), and let Ciri have at her.
Choice number two: After they've dealt with the elven woman, I can only then understand CDPR's reasoning that Ciri would still be upset, that their racial profiling still gets to her, after all this time.
Now, we get to decide whether to ransack the place to let off some steam or just leave.
5. You have to help Ciri bury Skjall.
This was also very understandable, I'm perfectly happy with reasoning behind this choice.
6. Help Ciri support her friends by stealing the horses.
This is such a missed opportunity, but also a huge, gaping hole in consistency of making these breaking points. The whole thing is perfect as it is, it just makes ZERO sense not to include this as a relationship/character builder for Ciri. Probably easiest one to adjust, should CDPR ever consider doing it.
So there it is, feels good getting this out. Would welcome any comments and open to discuss further the possibilities.
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