Managing Expections: A Critique of This Forum... kinda?

[KingRevolt]

Hi guys, my name is Quincy Smith, and I am pretty new to the forum. This may be a pretty long post, as I plan to hit everything as I go. You've been warned!

Okay, so after spending about 2 weeks in this forum, mostly digging through lore, but eventually finding my way into the user threads. I was kind of taken aback by the passion, and excitement surrounding this game! I mean, sure I'm excited as well, i fully intend on dropping out of university just so I can dump as much of my soul into this game as possible, but you guys make my excitement look mild at best, and I mean that in the best way possible! Or, at least I did until I began making my way through the more popular threads.

A few days ago after reading through hundreds of thread messages, and understanding the positives and negatives attached to this game I came to a startling conclusion. The general expectations of this game are way too high. Now, I'm not going to waste time going over individual interviews because I'm a lazy bastard, but I will comment on what CDPR promised us as consumers. CP2077 would seemingly be the most immersive RPG, well... ever? on top of that we were shown graphics, and promised game play mechanics the like of which we have been dreaming of since RPGs first hopped on the scene! I think it was before the internet or something, crazy times man! With all this promise of an excellent, dream game landing in our laps it makes sense why we would be hyped as a community, but as I read more I realized that aside from realistic complaints/expections there was a surprising amount of toxic discussion regarding certain aspects of the game as far as romance, and immersive fidelity was concerned. And, this notion that people were cursing the devs, and each other for lack of implementation, or just having different opinions on certain mechanics that have yet to be fully explained kind of astounds me.

I don't really know how to wrap this up as I mostly wanted to bring this to everyone's attention, but I think as a consumer base, waiting for a game that was first announced when I was 12 (19 now) we need to maintain a realistic grasp of what we maybe getting in November. Whether there's an option to bypass romance flags, or you can't wait to customize your V with certain augments and whatnot. Remember that there's a team of people behind all this, and in reality this is just another great game on the horizon.

Don't expect anything more than what we've been promised because resources are limited, manpower is limited, and at the end of the day CDPR knows what they're doing, so have a little faith and remind yourself to keep a realistic outlook on what's possible given what we know about this game, and the world it takes place in!

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Just an advice from someone who currently don't have the courage to read you: give your wall of text a bit of space.

Please?

 

[KingRevolt]

Just an advice from someone who currently don't have the courage to read you: give your wall of text a bit of space.

Please?

In hindsight that would make this much easier on the eyes huh? thanks for the suggestion!

 

[satyrsangre]

i appreciate you bringing these things up Q. i still have an issue with people saying CDPR 'promised' anything. devs try very hard not to make hard promises, because software development, esp video game development is messy and complex--when things go smoothly, let alone during the catastrofuck known as the year 2020.

CDPR has tried to make it very clear that they're trying to be as ambitious as they are capable of accomplishing. during the gameplay sequences they've shown us (and there's been a lot! somewhere around 1 h 15 min at this point), they've made it painfully clear that what we see is not done and does not in any way represent what we receive at launch. it's bizarre that people still cling to old 'promises' when they weren't firm and weren't 'promised' since their announcement.

CP2077 will be the best version of CDPR's vision as video game developers that they were able to design, program and optimise over the course of a decade (because the initial trailer from 2013 still had plenty of pre-production, licensing, and creation before we even knew anything about it).

so Q, i wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. i just get a little anxious (esp on this forum) when people talk about what CDPR 'promised' of CP2077 when they didn't really promise anything--other than a game they worked really hard to make.

 

[KingRevolt]

i appreciate you bringing these things up Q. i still have an issue with people saying CDPR 'promised' anything. devs try very hard not to make hard promises, because software development, esp video game development is messy and complex--when things go smoothly, let alone during the catastrofuck known as the year 2020.

CDPR has tried to make it very clear that they're trying to be as ambitious as they are capable of accomplishing. during the gameplay sequences they've shown us (and there's been a lot! somewhere around 1 h 15 min at this point), they've made it painfully clear that what we see is not done and does not in any way represent what we receive at launch. it's bizarre that people still cling to old 'promises' when they weren't firm and weren't 'promised' since their announcement.

CP2077 will be the best version of CDPR's vision as video game developers that they were able to design, program and optimise over the course of a decade (because the initial trailer from 2013 still had plenty of pre-production, licensing, and creation before we even knew anything about it).

so Q, i wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. i just get a little anxious (esp on this forum) when people talk about what CDPR 'promised' of CP2077 when they didn't really promise anything--other than a game they worked really hard to make.

I stand by everything you said wholeheartedly. Obviously I'd like to have the perfect cyberpunk game where I can experience both realism, and fantasy on another level, but it seems as though most others that I've seen are just grasping for hopes and dreams that just aren't realistic. CDPR will deliver the best product they can given the current tech, and time they've had to produce CP2077 I just hope the community as a whole doesn't continue to implode because unreasonably high demands. I could never be a game Dev, so I try to empathize with they enormous workload they have especially consider they time crunch and hours of bugs they have to trace back to the source code which could be completely unrelated. anyway thanks for the kind words Satyr!

 

[parasite_avi]

Hi guys, my name is Quincy Smith, and I am pretty new to the forum. This may be a pretty long post, as I plan to hit everything as I go. You've been warned!

Okay, so after spending about 2 weeks in this forum, mostly digging through lore, but eventually finding my way into the user threads. I was kind of taken aback by the passion, and excitement surrounding this game! I mean, sure I'm excited as well, i fully intend on dropping out of university just so I can dump as much of my soul into this game as possible, but you guys make my excitement look mild at best, and I mean that in the best way possible! Or, at least I did until I began making my way through the more popular threads.

A few days ago after reading through hundreds of thread messages, and understanding the positives and negatives attached to this game I came to a startling conclusion. The general expectations of this game are way too high. Now, I'm not going to waste time going over individual interviews because I'm a lazy bastard, but I will comment on what CDPR promised us as consumers. CP2077 would seemingly be the most immersive RPG, well... ever? on top of that we were shown graphics, and promised game play mechanics the like of which we have been dreaming of since RPGs first hopped on the scene! I think it was before the internet or something, crazy times man! With all this promise of an excellent, dream game landing in our laps it makes sense why we would be hyped as a community, but as I read more I realized that aside from realistic complaints/expections there was a surprising amount of toxic discussion regarding certain aspects of the game as far as romance, and immersive fidelity was concerned. And, this notion that people were cursing the devs, and each other for lack of implementation, or just having different opinions on certain mechanics that have yet to be fully explained kind of astounds me.

I don't really know how to wrap this up as I mostly wanted to bring this to everyone's attention, but I think as a consumer base, waiting for a game that was first announced when I was 12 (19 now) we need to maintain a realistic grasp of what we maybe getting in November. Whether there's an option to bypass romance flags, or you can't wait to customize your V with certain augments and whatnot. Remember that there's a team of people behind all this, and in reality this is just another great game on the horizon.

Don't expect anything more than what we've been promised because resources are limited, manpower is limited, and at the end of the day CDPR knows what they're doing, so have a little faith and remind yourself to keep a realistic outlook on what's possible given what we know about this game, and the world it takes place in!

i appreciate you bringing these things up Q. i still have an issue with people saying CDPR 'promised' anything. devs try very hard not to make hard promises, because software development, esp video game development is messy and complex--when things go smoothly, let alone during the catastrofuck known as the year 2020.

CDPR has tried to make it very clear that they're trying to be as ambitious as they are capable of accomplishing. during the gameplay sequences they've shown us (and there's been a lot! somewhere around 1 h 15 min at this point), they've made it painfully clear that what we see is not done and does not in any way represent what we receive at launch. it's bizarre that people still cling to old 'promises' when they weren't firm and weren't 'promised' since their announcement.

CP2077 will be the best version of CDPR's vision as video game developers that they were able to design, program and optimise over the course of a decade (because the initial trailer from 2013 still had plenty of pre-production, licensing, and creation before we even knew anything about it).

so Q, i wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. i just get a little anxious (esp on this forum) when people talk about what CDPR 'promised' of CP2077 when they didn't really promise anything--other than a game they worked really hard to make.

Apologies for massive quotes, but I really wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with you two.

I have been thinking about making a thread like this for a while myself. The last couple of weeks were filled with all sorts of complaining (more than usual) about nearly everything about Cyberpunk 2077 - FPP got brought up again, customization and trains being scrapped enjoyed a very peculiar amount of attention for an RPG title, the traffic in the game... It's both confusing and surprising at the same time.

Things I follow about the game include mostly gameplay reveals and occasional YouTube videos about some aspects I am interested in. The interviews were claimed to have a nice bit of information about the game that the developers mention and talk about, but they kinda pass by me. I am not the most informed regarding Cyberpunk 2077, but I, too, can't recall any firm and specific promises about the game. Moreover, every single gameplay video we've seen so far has either a watermark or some sort of pre-footage disclaimer saying that whatever is about to be shown can't be considered the final state of the game. Things change, as it has been mentioned by the developer team many many times.

Sure thing, it is easy to understand and let people feel their feelings regarding things being removed. Yet, the amount of disappointment people express over that is too much for one simple reason - it is one's own expectation, and in a lot of cases, said expectation is based on one's own imagination and speculations, not on the confirmed information that is not subject to change in any way. This is unfair, both towards oneself and the developer team.

Prior to Night City Wire ep. 1, there was a thread - "Are you worried about the Cyberpunk 2077 reviews?" At the time, I said I wasn't for most part, and the only thing I cared for is the game receiving fair and on-point critique as a game, as a story, not as a representation and inclusion catering piece (it already happened to Cyberpunk 2077 some time ago with articles saying the game exploits trans people or something, all that was caused by an in-game ad featuring a female body frame with a male penis silhouette visible through her clothes). After seeing quite a number of reactions that followed the news regarding some mechanics being removed, I am now worried about Cyberpunk 2077 getting a very wrong treatment for no good reason.

Until some information is 100% confirmed to not change in any form or degree, one's expectations are one's own responsibility. I am not an insider, but I can bet that CDPR is busy making a game according to their own vision, not catering to some expectations they probably even don't know about.

Glad too see some people with similar views.

 

[4RM3D]

Don't expect anything and never be disappointed again.

There is a difference between what CDPR has promised, what people think CDPR has promised and what players hope will be in the game. Also, it should be mentioned that when a game is in development for over 5 years, a lot will change in the meantime. For example the subway, because it was shown in the trailers, users assumed it would be in the game. Maybe it was suppose to be, at some point. We don't know.

In any case, it's precisely because of all this, I don't ride the hype train. I'll just patiently wait until the game is released. On the plus side, that means I can also get surprised by all the (new) stuff that's in the game, unlike when you've already read everything about the game.

 

[dogukans]

I think if I pay for something I'm entitled to have expectations and complain about product in a respective manner. but that's me ofc

 

[Bloodartist]

A few days ago after reading through hundreds of thread messages, and understanding the positives and negatives attached to this game I came to a startling conclusion. The general expectations of this game are way too high.

Well part of it is how CDPR has chosen to reveal information or keep things in the dark. We haven't really been able to form a coherent picture of what is coming, since so many things we know have been just words out of devs mouths, and those tend to be hyping stuff up more than not. I feel CDPR has somewhat painted themselves into this corner formed by disproportionate expectations.

I personally expect Witcher in the future, with some key differences and lots of small details. I do expect this to be one of the best RPGs ever made, and I also expect certain elements to disappoint us. Thats just the reality of things. At the end of the day the most important element of the game is for it to EXIST. It needs to come out. The rest can be fixed afterwards.

 

[parasite_avi]

I think if I pay for something I'm entitled to have expectations and complain about product in a respective manner. but that's me ofc

You pay for what you are promised or what you see de-facto. Pre-ordering is always a thin ice to walk for both you (the customer) and the creators, especially when you are told that whatever you see now (and pay for) may and is likely to change quite severely.

 

[Africa_Digi]

I think the expectation comes from two places. A lot of the early Cyberpunk 2077 fans came from the witcher series which they proclaim to be the best rpg ever. I think that's debatable but that's another story.

Because of this they were able to sway the narrative and project whatever they wanted onto the game.

How on earth was first person perspective ever a controversy in gaming? It came from those fans who expected a futuristic witcher game. It is such a non issue it boggles the mind.

Then new fans came in with their own expectations.

People were literally talking like Cyberpunk 2077 was a life sim. They were talking about having relationships, walking down the beach and staring at the sunset, having lunch at a bar. This game suddenly had everything.

When the reality of the game sets in that this is going to be a first person action rpg and nothing more, people just can't accept it. Nor can they accept it wont have every game mechanic known to man available, not even customisable cars.

So they complain about removed features that were never promised.

I'm sure Cyberpunk will be a great game. But I guarantee upon its release there will be A LOT of people very disappointed as they expect expected the world, and all they got was a good rpg game.

 

[Sir.Smoke]

I'm expecting Keanu to be breathtaking

 

[HellKnightX88]

Eh... we did the same with Witcher 3 and most of us still enjoyed it greatly.

 

[parasite_avi]

Eh... we did the same with Witcher 3 and most of us still enjoyed it greatly.

Thinking about that now, I can tell that every single game that I consider great is pretty different from what it looked like during its development, even though the process and stages were shown to people.

Take Half-Life 2 for example and compare to its beta (or numerous betas) - you're likely going to see a completely different plot and visuals is terms of style and design, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, including all the content and mechanics that were removed at some point. Still, one of the cult classics.

Considering all the CPDR experience and the general state of the gamedev industry, it's safe to say that the games have advanced and evolved. I feel like we're in for a treat like we never had before.

 

[satyrsangre]

Nor can they accept it wont have every game mechanic known to man available, not even customisable cars.

this, seriously. i'm still shocked CDPR has packed this game with as many gameplay mechanics they've already managed. it's kind of wild. it's just not enough for some?

 

[fridgeband]

Hi guys, my name is Quincy Smith, and I am pretty new to the forum. This may be a pretty long post, as I plan to hit everything as I go. You've been warned!

Okay, so after spending about 2 weeks in this forum, mostly digging through lore, but eventually finding my way into the user threads. I was kind of taken aback by the passion, and excitement surrounding this game! I mean, sure I'm excited as well, i fully intend on dropping out of university just so I can dump as much of my soul into this game as possible, but you guys make my excitement look mild at best, and I mean that in the best way possible! Or, at least I did until I began making my way through the more popular threads.

A few days ago after reading through hundreds of thread messages, and understanding the positives and negatives attached to this game I came to a startling conclusion. The general expectations of this game are way too high. Now, I'm not going to waste time going over individual interviews because I'm a lazy bastard, but I will comment on what CDPR promised us as consumers. CP2077 would seemingly be the most immersive RPG, well... ever? on top of that we were shown graphics, and promised game play mechanics the like of which we have been dreaming of since RPGs first hopped on the scene! I think it was before the internet or something, crazy times man! With all this promise of an excellent, dream game landing in our laps it makes sense why we would be hyped as a community, but as I read more I realized that aside from realistic complaints/expections there was a surprising amount of toxic discussion regarding certain aspects of the game as far as romance, and immersive fidelity was concerned. And, this notion that people were cursing the devs, and each other for lack of implementation, or just having different opinions on certain mechanics that have yet to be fully explained kind of astounds me.

I don't really know how to wrap this up as I mostly wanted to bring this to everyone's attention, but I think as a consumer base, waiting for a game that was first announced when I was 12 (19 now) we need to maintain a realistic grasp of what we maybe getting in November. Whether there's an option to bypass romance flags, or you can't wait to customize your V with certain augments and whatnot. Remember that there's a team of people behind all this, and in reality this is just another great game on the horizon.

I really like your intro, it's cool. Thank you for sharing

Don't expect anything more than what we've been promised because resources are limited, manpower is limited, and at the end of the day CDPR knows what they're doing, so have a little faith and remind yourself to keep a realistic outlook on what's possible given what we know about this game, and the world it takes place in!

But of course! This is CDProjektRed's and sort of also Mike Pondsmiths game, and they have the right and the freedom to do whatever they want with it, and this is a beautiful thing without any doubt, However I feel that I would be doing wrong by CDProjektRed and Mike Pondsmith if I were to not share my feedback and ideas and opinions with them months before Cyberpunk2077 releases. We should all be vocal, and spill the beans and pour our hearts out to CDProjektRed, because our feedback is valuable to them, even if they just read it and decide that they disagree and will keep everything the same, it is still important and valuable information to them. I am more than glad to share my feedback and I love reading everyone else's too. Even if everything we say changes absolutely nothing, I am happy that CDProjektRed at least read all our feedback and thought about it, and it had the chance to inspire them to do anything, if that has a positive effect somehow, even if it doesn't change the game, but even if it only gives them a thought "Oh that was a nice idea!" then I'm happy for them.

 

[KingRevolt]

I think if I pay for something I'm entitled to have expectations and complain about product in a respective manner. but that's me ofc

You make a great point, and I hear what you're saying, Dogukan! However I'm mostly speaking on the fact that there seem to complaints just for the sake of complaining and seeing how much more can be packed into the final product. If you pay for a product or service, and it's simply not up to snuff, then you're well within your right to be unhappy, but keep in mind we really have only been given a "look through the keyhole" in terms of anything pertaining to this game and that's with roughly an hour+ of content being shown. I think people are nitpicking, and it's turning an awesome community toxic. Ya hate to see it, man.

Post automatically merged: Jul 7, 2020

I think the expectation comes from two places. A lot of the early Cyberpunk 2077 fans came from the witcher series which they proclaim to be the best rpg ever. I think that's debatable but that's another story.

Because of this they were able to sway the narrative and project whatever they wanted onto the game.

How on earth was first person perspective ever a controversy in gaming? It came from those fans who expected a futuristic witcher game. It is such a non issue it boggles the mind.

Then new fans came in with their own expectations.

People were literally talking like Cyberpunk 2077 was a life sim. They were talking about having relationships, walking down the beach and staring at the sunset, having lunch at a bar. This game suddenly had everything.

When the reality of the game sets in that this is going to be a first person action rpg and nothing more, people just can't accept it. Nor can they accept it wont have every game mechanic known to man available, not even customisable cars.

So they complain about removed features that were never promised.

I'm sure Cyberpunk will be a great game. But I guarantee upon its release there will be A LOT of people very disappointed as they expect expected the world, and all they got was a good rpg game.

This message really stood out to me merely because of several of the points you brought up, Africa. The first time I played Skyrim, roughly 2012-2013, I fell in love with the game. In hindsight it is not a good story driven experience, but as a sandbox it is one of the most amazing games to ever release.... Maybe that's a bit much! Anyway, after YEARS of pouring over the game, and piecing together the lore of this world that honestly felt apart of me at this point. I decided to start from the beginning.

I wake up on, typical summer day in the Midwest. My afro having yet to reach its maximum floof. And, I boot up the emulator needed to run Elder Scrolls: Arena! I blaze through the character creation, in awe of the retro graphics, and rudimentary, but timeless writing that's already managed to snatch my attention, and I spawn in the first dungeon of the game, eager to slay the approaching goblin, and save Tamriel from the clutches of, Jagar Tharn! Then I died. And, then I died again, and again, and again. until I finally understand my decade of video game mastery wasn't quite where it needed to be.

The point of this very enrapturing story of my failure was merely to highlight how as gamers we can't expect one product to necessarily be indicative of the rest of the whole. A twelve-year-old can boot up Skyrim with no knowledge of the game, and get decently fair without really trying? The same can't be said for the introductory game of the series. A better example definitely would've been Fallout, buuut it's bad. Haha I'm sorry, not really it's just not my cup of tea, mate!

The fact is that a lot of people came into CP2077 thinking it would he The Witcher 3 with a twist, simply because of the team behind both games, and that's false. Certain features of the game that aren't present, that genuinely cause uproar in the community are arbitrary features at best, and considering the double stuffed oreo amount of features we are getting I'm surprised they implemented as much as they did.

If you really consider all the different systems, and cogs that are in motion to make this game what it is; you begin to realize that this is in fact the most ambitious RPG ever! And, if they cut something it's for damn sure not because they wanted to, I mean the spent months developing some of this stuff! But, somethings were bound to break when you consider just how much they're really jam packing into this game

As for the cyber-life-sim hybrid, I really believe a major reason people are getting so upset with this product is because they wanted this game to be an avenue for them to disappear into seamlessly, And as time goes on, and it's revealed that this is "just a game" people's true motivations come to light. I love simulation games as much as the next guy, but I can tell you this. This is an RPG at heart, and no amount of coding can replace the real world with a shallow cyber sandbox. At least not for too long. I believe I will spend tens of hours just living in this world, waking up, eating, talking to people, etc. But, there's still a story that takes priority, and even if this was on par with a now shoddy Bethesda game, if the story was even a fraction of what I think we're getting, then I'd still love this game.

With all this said, I truly believe I have what it takes to write scripts for youtubers. I'm actually very ashamed I am not a youtubers because writing this whole thing was really fun, and it allowed me to express my opinions and feelings on a game I didn't know I cared so much about until 6-7 months ago, when my my best friend found me with my wrist slit, bleeding out in his bathroom because I was not prepared for adult life only to wake up the next day, to a very peculiar looking gaming video in my yt recommended feed. Guys it was Cyberpunk: 2077, I know someone out there wouldn't pick up on that! Anyway, this game means a lot to me. This community means a lot to me, and even if the game is drastically different than what people expect my hope is that we all keep an open mind, so that we as gamers, developers, etc, can continue to grow well into the future... where you can smash that like button, and subscribe! seeya next time, losers!

 

[Heart Of Dawn]

While I'm new to the world of Cyberpunk, I've been following game development for a long time. So many seem to think making a game is like building a production car- bolt the bits together and it's done. But it's like building a prototype- you create a design as to how you'd like it to be, and then constantly iterate and evolve it over time as you discover some features are simply more trouble than they are worth, there's not enough time, money, or engine-power do something a certain way, that the rules and regulations aren't what you first thought, or something that looked cool on paper is just hideous in practice.

Sure we can make critiques and suggestions (I'd still love to see ballet boots in game), but CDPR are the artists here, so let's sit back, enjoy the process of creation, and then simply enjoy the game for what it is, and not what it's not (that's a metaphor for life there too).

You pay for what you are promised or what you see de-facto. Pre-ordering is always a thin ice to walk for both you (the customer) and the creators, especially when you are told that whatever you see now (and pay for) may and is likely to change quite severely.

Early access games are only worth inasmuch as they are playable at the time. Are you happy with what you spent for what your getting now, and not some promise for the future? Pre-orders are the same. Don't spend the money unless you are happy to play only what you can play right now.

 

[Cereborn]

I freely admit that I have high expectations for this game. There is a very good chance that when this comes out, it will be my new all-time favourite video game. That doesn't strike me as particularly unreasonable, since my current favourite game (Fallout: New Vegas) is a generation old. Video games are unique among artistic media in that there is a very real expectation that newer ones will be better than older ones. Everything I've seen about this game has just got me more excited.

But I'm also not as picky as many people are, it seems. I've always thought the gunplay looked great, and even though I understand the complaints about melee combat, I don't think it would really bother me if I were playing the game in the state it's in now. It's fine for people to be disappointed, but complaints and criticisms really get out of hand. I see a lot of people pulling out individual elements from the game and saying, "This bit isn't done as well as game A, and this bit isn't done as well as game B, and this bit isn't done as well as game C," and they're completely oblivious to the fact that they just compared it to three completely different games that, even when combined together, still lack a bunch of the content we've already seen.

 

[satyrsangre]

I see a lot of people pulling out individual elements from the game and saying, "This bit isn't done as well as game A, and this bit isn't done as well as game B, and this bit isn't done as well as game C," and they're completely oblivious to the fact that they just compared it to three completely different games that, even when combined together, still lack a bunch of the content we've already seen.

dont forget: for a product that is not finished; whose finished product state cannot be assessed due to its lack of being finished.