Mantle - new open API by AMD and DICE

[Aver]

BF 4's Mantle update was released today, here are AMD's benchmarks:

As expected, it helps low ends CPUs, but doesn't do much in GPU-limited scenarios.

Edit: It also helps if you're building a crossfire setup, since you'll be CPU-limited:

I like how Dice uses frame time instead of FPS

They said which cases was CPU bound and which was GPU bound. First case was GPU bound and other were CPU bound. Also they show FPS numbers too. You have them between brackets if you didn't notice. They said before that you will get more performance boost on high-end rigs (they said before that it will be up to 50%, but it seems that in case of Crossfire it's even more than that) than on weaker ones that are limited by GPU (up to 15-20%), so yes, it was expected.

Well, yeah. You have to build a GCN card to use it. Guess who makes all the GCN chips. That makes the claim that Mantle is "open" as empty as Letho's vodka bottle. Mantle is for any real purpose somewhat less open than PhysX, which will run without an nVidia GPU.

Please, check your knowledge before posting false and misleading information (especially if it was already corrected once in this topic). DICE and AMD stated before that GCN is not requirement for Mantle. It's just that right now, GCN is only architecture that supports it. You can make future cards compatible with Mantle without GCN architecture.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amds-mantle-does-not-require-gpus-with-gcn-architecture/

 

[Username.]

They said which cases was CPU bound and which was GPU bound. First case was GPU bound and other were CPU bound. Also they show FPS numbers too. You have them between brackets if you didn't notice. They said before that you will get more performance boost on high-end rigs (they said before that it will be up to 50%, but it seems that in case of Crossfire it's even more than that) than on weaker ones that are limited by GPU (up to 15-20%), so yes, it was expected.

Read this again:

CPU-limited scenario: 40.9% (1080p) and 40.1% (1600p) performance improvement under Ultra settings and 4xAA on the AMD A10-7700K with an AMD Radeon™ R9 290X.
GPU-limited scenario: 2.7% (1080p) and 1.4% (1600p) performance improvement under Ultra settings and FXAA on the Core i7-4960X with an AMD Radeon™ R7 260X

And I know DICE also used raw FPS numbers, I'm not blind.

Here are some other BF4 benchmarks, provided by DICE:

 

[Aver]

Read this again:

You and I were looking at different benchmarks. I was quoting this:

This area is heavy on the CPU as it is quite a lot of action going on, but the game is primarily GPU-bound both on DX and with Mantle but thanks to GPU optimizations with Mantle we get a good performance improvement.
Result: 26.6 ms/f -> 23.3 ms/f = 14% faster

Also it seems that you removed line about second benchmark from other game which showed 15% improvement on GPU bound setup.

And I know DICE also used raw FPS numbers, I'm not blind.

You used word "instead", so I assumed that you didn't see it. I didn't want to offend you.

 

[GuyNwah]

They said which cases was CPU bound and which was GPU bound. First case was GPU bound and other were CPU bound. Also they show FPS numbers too. You have them between brackets if you didn't notice. They said before that you will get more performance boost on high-end rigs (they said before that it will be up to 50%, but it seems that in case of Crossfire it's even more than that) than on weaker ones that are limited by GPU (up to 15-20%), so yes, it was expected.



Please, check your knowledge before posting false and misleading information (especially if it was already corrected once in this topic). DICE and AMD stated before that GCN is not requirement for Mantle. It's just that right now, GCN is only architecture that supports it. You can make future cards compatible with Mantle without GCN architecture.

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/amds-mantle-does-not-require-gpus-with-gcn-architecture/

Nothing I claimed was false. AMD has stated officially that Mantle is for GCN architecture only.

Robert Hallock ("Thracks") is chief of PR for AMD. His words carry official weight.

No. It is an API for the industry-standard GCN Architecture and its specific ISA, done at the request of game developers.

 

[Username.]

You and I were looking at different benchmarks. I was quoting this:


Also it seems that you removed line about second benchmark from other game which showed 15% improvement on GPU bound setup.


You used word "instead", so I assumed that you didn't see it. I didn't want to offend you.

Oh, my apologies.

The only part of your post that I removed was the one not addressed to me.

English is not my first language

 

[Aver]

Nothing I claimed was false. AMD has stated officially that Mantle is for GCN architecture only.

Check the link. You will see a slide from the official presentation of Mantle during AMD event that took place in December. You can also find a video from this presentation on YT, if you want to see it by yourself.

 

[GuyNwah]

I saw the link. It contradicts other statements from AMD. I get to choose which of those statements I am willing to consider plausible.

There's no backing other than a fuzzy claim "Most Mantle functionality can be supported on today's modern GPUs" and no presentation of any demonstrable implementation of Mantle on anything that is not a GCN GPU.

There's a statement from an AMD officer contradicting the claims made on that slide.

There isn't enough evidence for me to take seriously the claim that Mantle on non-GCN hardware is anything more than vaporware intended to put competitors in a position of refusing it.

 

[Aver]

There isn't enough evidence for me to take seriously the claim that Mantle on non-GCN hardware is anything more than vaporware intended to put competitors in a position of refusing it.

This slide was made by main creator of Mantle Johan Andersson. It was said on official Mantle presentation on official AMD event. You can find tons of interviews where various people say that it's forward compatible with any modern GPU.

But it's ok, you can believe and think whatever you want, but don't post your opinions as facts.

 

[M4xw0lf]

Also Nixxes (the people who ported Tomb Raider and Thief to the PC) stated that Mantle is not hardwired to GCN and, in theory, can be supported by any hardware that fulfills the feature requirements - whatever they be.

 

[mavowar]

This slide was made by main creator of Mantle Johan Andersson. It was said on official Mantle presentation on official AMD event. You can find tons of interviews where various people say that it's forward compatible with any modern GPU.

But it's ok, you can believe and think whatever you want, but don't post your opinions as facts.

That goes triple for you......

 

[mxYELLOW]

I saw the link. It contradicts other statements from AMD. I get to choose which of those statements I am willing to consider plausible.

There's no backing other than a fuzzy claim "Most Mantle functionality can be supported on today's modern GPUs" and no presentation of any demonstrable implementation of Mantle on anything that is not a GCN GPU.

There's a statement from an AMD officer contradicting the claims made on that slide.

There isn't enough evidence for me to take seriously the claim that Mantle on non-GCN hardware is anything more than vaporware intended to put competitors in a position of refusing it.

Mantle is too architecture specific (GCN). Analysts are convinced that statements from AMD saying that Mantle is not bound to GCN is for PR purposes only.

 

[Aver]

Mantle is too architecture specific (GCN).

How do you know that? Do you work in Dice or Nixxes or Oxide? Did you work with Mantle? Because so far any developer which worked with it said something exactly opposite.

 

[mxYELLOW]

@Aver Just from articles online...I still haven't read any that states Mantle is not architecture specific.

 

[M4xw0lf]

You are wrong in two points: first - it was never AMD who stated that Mantle could support other hardware, but the developers who already worked with Mantle.
Second: those same developers (DICE, Nixxes, Oxide) have all expressed the opinion that Mantle is not bound to GCN.

The Mantle update for BF4 is out and the Mantle driver (catalyst 14.1) has at least been shipped to the press. Initial results are looking fine:

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2014-02/battlefield-4-mit-mantle-erster-eigener-benchmark/

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http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.ph...te-ergebnisse-im-kampf-mantle-vs-directx.html

View attachment 1585

 

[Aver]

@Aver Just from articles online...I still haven't read any that states Mantle is not architecture specific.

Please, link any of those articles.

 

[M4xw0lf]

Mantle's chance to shine is with weaker CPUs and stronger GPUs:

View attachment 1587

Plus: a Mantle FAQ by AMD. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_mantle_preview,3.html
@here_soon : might want to read this, especially:

Q: Is Mantle a proprietary AMD technology?
A: Mantle was conceived and developed by AMD in partnership with leading game developers.
This enabled the fast and agile development required to validate the concepts and bring such the technology to life in a relatively short period of time. However, Mantle was designed in a way that makes it applicable to a range of modern GPU architectures. In the months ahead, we will be inviting more partners to participate in the development program, leading up to a public release of the specifications later in 2014. Our intention is for Mantle, or something that looks very much like it, to eventually become an industry standard applicable to multiple graphics architectures and platforms.

More performance numbers are popping up - BF4 multiplayer results are excellent:

http://www.golem.de/news/amds-mantle-api-im-test-der-prozessor-katalysator-1402-104261-3.html

 

[mxYELLOW]

I have to admit that I haven't updated myself on this topic and I just googled just now. Geez, the updates become totally opposite. This is just ridiculous.
Mantle requires GCN
Update: It don't require GCN

 

[Aver]

On Steam there is app Star Swarm Stress Test that let you test Mantle. You can test the same scene with Mantle and DirectX. Of course if you have a video card that support Mantle.

 

[M4xw0lf]

At the moment, you can't, actually
The driver update catalyst 14.1 is still not online for public download, the installing routine needs fixing.

 

[Username.]

PCLab.pl's tests: