Interesting results. They suggest that Mantle derives most of its advantage from unburdening the CPU. The Core i3 and Pentium comparisons are especially instructive. Weak CPUs like Core i3 and AMD FX and APUs do especially well with Mantle; strong CPUs like Core i5 and i7 have enough capacity to serve an nVidia GPU more effectively.
The results from this polish test are ridiculous. A GTX 780, even as GHz OC version, is nowhere near the reported 40-50% faster than a 290X in Battlefield 4. :huh:
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...x-tri-x-oc-im-test/3/#battlefield-4-2560-1600
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...field-4-Test-Benchmarks-Grafikkarten-1095050/
Plus, also highest end CPUs like the i7 4960X, 3960X and 4770K still get a performance boost. Especially in Multiplayer mode, even those CPUs are holding the GPU back.. http://www.golem.de/news/amds-mantle-api-im-test-der-prozessor-katalysator-1402-104261-3.html
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/...x-tri-x-oc-im-test/3/#battlefield-4-2560-1600
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Battl...field-4-Test-Benchmarks-Grafikkarten-1095050/
Plus, also highest end CPUs like the i7 4960X, 3960X and 4770K still get a performance boost. Especially in Multiplayer mode, even those CPUs are holding the GPU back.. http://www.golem.de/news/amds-mantle-api-im-test-der-prozessor-katalysator-1402-104261-3.html
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One could hold those results to be even more meaningless, as they do not even specify the CPU in use, much less draw comparisons between different CPUs. If the other results mean anything, they mean the CPU is of great importance.
There's no question that Mantle boosts the performance of GCN GPUs, over a wide range of CPUs. What the results do not show is that Mantle is sufficient to overcome the advantage of the combination of a Core i5 or Core i7 and high-end Kepler GPU.
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They specify: they use i7 4770k
Yeah, there is topic that has 200 pages and even Mantle engineer was participating in it and a lot of people questioned those results from pclab.pl because they are so different that every single other benchmark that is available right now:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2344633&page=11
Also not only weak CPU benefit from Mantle, even i7 gets from 7-30% more performance:
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Nobody's disputing that Mantle is of advantage on a GCN GPU. Even the results you dispute demonstrate that clearly. But there is no evidence that Mantle will ever be available for any GPU other than GCN. That requires cooperation from other manufacturers that have entirely different product trajectories and have shown no intention of cooperating. And it doesn't make for indisputable evidence that the combination of a Core i7 and an R9 290X equals or betters a Core i7 and a GTX 780, even with Mantle.
Well Maxwolf linked you benchmarks of 290X vs 780 on i7 and they showed that 290X is more powerful.
Here you have another one from 3dguru: http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=7717
And here is Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-5.html
I think that both guru3d and Tom's Hardware are more reputable than this Polish site. Both of them tested cards using i7
Here you have another one from 3dguru: http://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=7717
And here is Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-5.html
I think that both guru3d and Tom's Hardware are more reputable than this Polish site. Both of them tested cards using i7
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I'm sorry, but who the hell buys an i7 4960x to only use 2 cores and four threads?
PCLab is legit, here's a Guru3D bench showing similar results:
Edit 3: The most recent BF4 patch improved performance for NVIDIA cards, that might be why the benches are showing that kind of difference.
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No, the differences at pclab between a GTX 780 and a 290x are definitely wrong.
Here's a brand new review, showing several Geforces and Radeons on a 4770K: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2014/erste-eindruecke-zu-amds-mantle/2/
You see, even under DX the 290X is only slightly slower than the 780Ti[/] (which is some 15-20% faster than a normal 780). When Mantle is used, the 290X is leading markedly.
Here's a brand new review, showing several Geforces and Radeons on a 4770K: http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/grafikkarten/2014/erste-eindruecke-zu-amds-mantle/2/
You see, even under DX the 290X is only slightly slower than the 780Ti[/] (which is some 15-20% faster than a normal 780). When Mantle is used, the 290X is leading markedly.
Nobody, but I guess that they did it to test how multi-core friendly is Mantle.
-- Ritche Corpus, director of software alliance and developer relations, in http://vr-zone.com/articles/mantling-alliances-ritchie-corpus-amd-interview/58215.html
The way I read this is there is not such a thing as a Mantle API that is portable across GPU architectures, and there is no intention on the part of AMD to create one. All they have done is make a statement that they will offer information about Mantle to other parties who may create Mantle-like implementations of their own.
nVidia has already stated in clear terms that this will not be their direction, that they intend to continue their longstanding practice of using OpenGL extensions to achieve the same manner of optimization.
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There`s one thing i`ve learned in my few meager years and that is "If the paper lays still long enough...you can write anything you want on it" . Also AMD and Nvidia are serious competitors and will say what ever it takes to try and get the upperhand on the other . Seems to me that it`s up to each individual consumer and their purse strings and whether they prefer Nvidia or AMD .
You keep quoting very old quotes from first time when we heard about Mantle (September). Since then a lot of things changed, just read anything that is fresh and up-to-date, like FAQ posted by Max.
Also here you have FAQ from official AMD site: http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/mantle-faq.aspx#184
Today I asked Darren McPhee via Twitter if Mantle could work with other architectures and he said that it can, but at this moment they focus on GCN.
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Is not true that mantle is harder to develop than direct X. I read an article about mantle and is going to replace direct x. Also developer laziness isn't a excuse.
Laziness is no excuse, but return on investment is the best excuse in the business.
If you're going to do extra work, no matter how small some outsider may claim it is, that extra work must produce enough profitable sales or reduced costs to make the investment a wise one. If it cannot be predicted to do so, only a very foolish manager would authorize it.
Mantle is not going to replace DirectX in any future near enough to justify product planning, and anybody who claims it will is badly informed. Developing for both Mantle and DirectX is more costly than developing for either alone. The decision to do so must be justified on a prediction of return on investment, or no amount of protest will cause it to happen.
If you're going to do extra work, no matter how small some outsider may claim it is, that extra work must produce enough profitable sales or reduced costs to make the investment a wise one. If it cannot be predicted to do so, only a very foolish manager would authorize it.
Mantle is not going to replace DirectX in any future near enough to justify product planning, and anybody who claims it will is badly informed. Developing for both Mantle and DirectX is more costly than developing for either alone. The decision to do so must be justified on a prediction of return on investment, or no amount of protest will cause it to happen.
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AMD's Mantle API will not be replacing DirectX in any future PC versions of video games at all. Microsoft is infact working on further developing and optimizing DirectX 11.2 to match AMD's Mantle API or even beat it. There are rumors Nvidia pushed Microsoft for this.
Nvidia is also going to further optimize and support OpenGL to match or beat AMD's Mantle API. Intel, Nvidia, and a few others do not care to support AMD's Mantle API on their hardware. Strange thing is AMD's Mantle API works on Intel hardware though.
The PC version of Battlefield 4 and the PC version of the Frostbite 3 engine still supports DirectX 11 even though it also supports AMD's Mantle API.
Yesterday I belie it was I read from Johan Andersson he said only like 35% of the PC gamers who play the PC version have AMD graphic cards and tried to play the PC version of Battlefield 4 on AMD's Mantle API.
Windows keeps growing and the use of DirectX keeps growing I guess people just stick with Windows and DirectX because Microsoft offers better support and like Guy N'wah said their is no point to support something that there is a really small market from and has no return on investment yet.
Doing stuff like this can make your company go bankrupt. I should know I buy and sell stocks and the things I see people complain about in the chat where I buy and sell stocks is quite sad in some cases.
You want CD Projekt RED to keep existing as a video game company and to keep gog.com alive right? Because they are like the only video game company in this video game industry who are pushing for 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free future to exist side by side with Steam and to develop some of the best RPG video games out there that don't exist other than Bethesda Game Studios ones which are starting to suck and bore me.
Seems legit, seeing that Nvidia doesn't even support DX11.2 in their current hardware.
Seems legit, seeing that Nvidia doesn't even support DX11.2 in their current hardware.
Heck, they don't even support 11.1. To be fair, they have stated why they have omitted specific features that they believe their developers find irrelevant, and given reason for these.
Mantle is not meant to replace DirectX completely in any foreseeable future. Even AMD says that (check their FAQ).
Actually, according to devs that worked with Mantle, it's extremely easy to implement and small team can do that in few weeks and if your engine already supported it, then it is even easier.
If you keep in mind how much marketing power it has right now (Oxide based its marketing only on implementing Mantle in their engine), then it's very cost efficient.
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mantle
since it's out and ready to use, anybody tested tw2 with new mantle?
since it's out and ready to use, anybody tested tw2 with new mantle?