i have faith in CDRED that the Martial Arrts in CP2077 will be awesome, they are always making a good job on motion capturing
I don't give two craps about motion capture. I'd prefer one or two styles and responsive melee gameplay. Batman was fun, but a little simplistic. Button-mashing fighters are too complex. Finding the balance will be challenging.
I reiterate that Gothic 1 and 2 had my favourite melee combat, where skill and timing could let you defeat a much superior opponent. A martial arts version of that would be great.
I reiterate that Gothic 1 and 2 had my favourite melee combat, where skill and timing could let you defeat a much superior opponent. A martial arts version of that would be great.
I know there's no Street Samurai archetype per se in CP2020, but it's kind of what pops in mind when we think about Solos in a cyberpunk setting. My idea of how this "style over substance" mentality meets the street samurai is somewhat along the lines of the movie Ghost Dog: this kind of character might be labelled as an anachronism, a madman/woman or even mentally retarded by people that look at them from the outside. They may be passionate about the way of the samurai, which might lead them to study the genuine thing as much as it's available to them, but they may also be the result of watching and reading too many crappy ninja and samurai movies and comics made in the USA (mainly in the 70s, 80s and 90s), written by people who didn't know jack shit about the real thing (ninjas with scimitars, a general lack of knowledge on eastern cultures which shows in improbable geography and mixed traditional clothing like they were the same thing...).
If we open the hand a little more, characters like the Preacher in Johnny Mnemonic fit this description, although this assassin has themed himself with exotic elements of christian monastic orders, instead of martial arts.
It would be cool if we could see this kind of "bad learning" in CP2077, not to repeat errors, but to acknowledge the quirkiness of this era and how the japanese elements were integrated in Hollywood culture.
It would also be cool if the game acknowledged the intrusion of japanese practices in businessmaking. Let me explain: at the time where cyberpunk was beginning to get a name as a subgenre, the japanese was an emergent economy (and the Zaibatsu -sometimes with some strokes of european neo-decadent nobility, see Tessier-Ashpool- made a good villain). There was such an interest in imitating the japanese model that some elements of eastern cultures that are superficial and extraneous to proper businessmaking were... assimilated like a simplified -assimilated- form of feng shui. etc.
So maybe we could have "sararimen" doing yoga at the top of the company's tower and shit like that. If Europe is also a rising economy in the setting... maybe there's some idiotic assimilation to make there.
If we open the hand a little more, characters like the Preacher in Johnny Mnemonic fit this description, although this assassin has themed himself with exotic elements of christian monastic orders, instead of martial arts.
It would be cool if we could see this kind of "bad learning" in CP2077, not to repeat errors, but to acknowledge the quirkiness of this era and how the japanese elements were integrated in Hollywood culture.
It would also be cool if the game acknowledged the intrusion of japanese practices in businessmaking. Let me explain: at the time where cyberpunk was beginning to get a name as a subgenre, the japanese was an emergent economy (and the Zaibatsu -sometimes with some strokes of european neo-decadent nobility, see Tessier-Ashpool- made a good villain). There was such an interest in imitating the japanese model that some elements of eastern cultures that are superficial and extraneous to proper businessmaking were... assimilated like a simplified -assimilated- form of feng shui. etc.
So maybe we could have "sararimen" doing yoga at the top of the company's tower and shit like that. If Europe is also a rising economy in the setting... maybe there's some idiotic assimilation to make there.
Did someone say Martial Arts???
Quick story - my friends and I discovered Capoeira through playing cyberpunk and reading that short description. It led us to find a studio and train four years in the art!!!!
In the game I'd love to see all the styles in the book. I actually think the system in the PNP was brilliant it was a General system but each style got bonuses to specific move sets. I think this would work great as you can start with a general brawler style system and then as players select/learn a style or (chip) a style you can add moves/have the behind the scenes calculations reflect the style advantages - i.e. Savate gave you +4 to kick while Jude like +2 to throw. Etc.
So everyone can throw/punch/kick/grapple, but the Savate guy is gonna kick better, the boxer is gonna punch better etc. and each style as you develop the skill could open up different combo/move options that you can purchase. Then this allows you to mix styles as well.
Finally Cyber & Guns. Martial arts evolve and to Master cybernetics as part of each martial arts disicipline would be an entirely NEW influence on balance, timing, positioning, defending. Much in the same way MMA and mixing styles creates an evolution/adapation in each used style so too would integrate weapons double locking joints etc. However each style would use integrate cyber differently.
Therefore I think each relevant cyber enhancement for melee/hth weapon/defense should have a cybernetics moves list that as you use that enhancement in combat opens up new moves to reflect your discovery of how to best use the enhancement in combat. This way you can chain the move with whatever style you have RATHER then having one limited style cybernetics style. FBCs should have Panzer Kunst which would be a more heavily cyernetics reliant style.
Guns - should have a sub discpline with weapons retention skills call it - close combat shooting? which are all real skills. It also clearly distinguishes the fact that melee combat becomes much more dangerous with cyber, but in the end a bullet and gun is a decisive advantage against an opponent without a weapon. Obvioulsy situations can dictate how much of an advantage. In an urban context thought close range shooting is expected and necessary so rifles/handguns, weapon retention, and using guns as a melee weapon integrated with shooting is something I would love for this game to develop. It wouldn't be as over the top as gun kata which is ridiculous, but there are very specific techniques and moves that exist for close combat shooting.
The best martial arts technique though is running away - and melee combat especially against enhanced groups should reflect this. martial arts filtered through Cyberpunk - means Absolute practicality (with a dash of dramatic license) what works the best and quickest and dirtiest is what survives. And GOD PLEASE no Krav Maga.
Quick story - my friends and I discovered Capoeira through playing cyberpunk and reading that short description. It led us to find a studio and train four years in the art!!!!
In the game I'd love to see all the styles in the book. I actually think the system in the PNP was brilliant it was a General system but each style got bonuses to specific move sets. I think this would work great as you can start with a general brawler style system and then as players select/learn a style or (chip) a style you can add moves/have the behind the scenes calculations reflect the style advantages - i.e. Savate gave you +4 to kick while Jude like +2 to throw. Etc.
So everyone can throw/punch/kick/grapple, but the Savate guy is gonna kick better, the boxer is gonna punch better etc. and each style as you develop the skill could open up different combo/move options that you can purchase. Then this allows you to mix styles as well.
Finally Cyber & Guns. Martial arts evolve and to Master cybernetics as part of each martial arts disicipline would be an entirely NEW influence on balance, timing, positioning, defending. Much in the same way MMA and mixing styles creates an evolution/adapation in each used style so too would integrate weapons double locking joints etc. However each style would use integrate cyber differently.
Therefore I think each relevant cyber enhancement for melee/hth weapon/defense should have a cybernetics moves list that as you use that enhancement in combat opens up new moves to reflect your discovery of how to best use the enhancement in combat. This way you can chain the move with whatever style you have RATHER then having one limited style cybernetics style. FBCs should have Panzer Kunst which would be a more heavily cyernetics reliant style.
Guns - should have a sub discpline with weapons retention skills call it - close combat shooting? which are all real skills. It also clearly distinguishes the fact that melee combat becomes much more dangerous with cyber, but in the end a bullet and gun is a decisive advantage against an opponent without a weapon. Obvioulsy situations can dictate how much of an advantage. In an urban context thought close range shooting is expected and necessary so rifles/handguns, weapon retention, and using guns as a melee weapon integrated with shooting is something I would love for this game to develop. It wouldn't be as over the top as gun kata which is ridiculous, but there are very specific techniques and moves that exist for close combat shooting.
The best martial arts technique though is running away - and melee combat especially against enhanced groups should reflect this. martial arts filtered through Cyberpunk - means Absolute practicality (with a dash of dramatic license) what works the best and quickest and dirtiest is what survives. And GOD PLEASE no Krav Maga.
Well, presumably, there will be appropriate animations, indicative of the style (ie the Savateur's kick animation should be different from the Nak Muay's kick, which should be different from the Capoeirista's kick.) I'd like to hope that it's not going to be the same animations used for everything, with the applicable bonuses from the style on the back-end.
Very much so. Doesn't have to be elaborate. Even a simple system like Mars: WarvLogs with active blocks, counters, dodges and back attacks would be nice. Set on a high enough difficulty, that will be a challenge.
Difficulty-wise, I also hope that instead of making the enemy ridiculously tough, CDPR instead opts to make them ridiculously damaging if they hit you. Much more exciting that way.
Difficulty-wise, I also hope that instead of making the enemy ridiculously tough, CDPR instead opts to make them ridiculously damaging if they hit you. Much more exciting that way.
I agree as you start branching off from Brawler - the animations should start to adapt. Keeping it simple for animation capture wouldn't be difficult. Each style does whatever the style basics are - punch, kick, grapple with some variation in each and then you special mo-cap the unlockable moves and special combos or whatever.
Actually thinking about the style thing is kind of exciting because if you're a Thai stylist then that would mean you want rippers on your elbows and knees vs. a boxer who would go for more big nucks and hydraulic ram arms.
Don't know about Mars War Logs, but a simple combat system like Mafia 2 is good too.
Even though the Combat System in Batman AA/AC and Sleeping Dogs are great I'm not sure it would fit in Cyberpunk, maybe depening on classes.
Never played the batman games but the mmelee combat of sleeping dogs would work perfectly...and fit perfectly as well.
i played batman but not sleeping dogs.....how is the combat in sleeping dogs?
SD is good but I'd hope for more lethality, variety and smoothness in the CP system. One of my favorite things about SD was the throws. Just hurling them against a wall felt brutal and made sense contextually.
SD was fun..but felt like a videogame. Opponents wait before attacking you, telegraph horribly, even unskilled ones, and there were lots of cues, audio and visual. Your opponents were always slower than you were and often seemed to weight about twenty pounds.
I thought Batman's were more visceral and gave me a better sense of being in a fight...but Batman was much less interactive than SD.
So I'd like to see the fight methods of SD with the feeling and weight of the Arkham series.
In both games, though, fights usually went on for awhile - in CP2020 they are over in a few hits, given the lethality of the fighters. If you blow your parry/dodge, it's over.
So perhaps a new system that provides the weight of Batman, the style of SD and the immediacy and urgency of CP2020.
I thought Batman's were more visceral and gave me a better sense of being in a fight...but Batman was much less interactive than SD.
So I'd like to see the fight methods of SD with the feeling and weight of the Arkham series.
In both games, though, fights usually went on for awhile - in CP2020 they are over in a few hits, given the lethality of the fighters. If you blow your parry/dodge, it's over.
So perhaps a new system that provides the weight of Batman, the style of SD and the immediacy and urgency of CP2020.
I agree Sard, but I've been wondering how they can square damage taken from a bullet vs. a punch or kick.
No not really, quite opposite except for brutal
Like Sardukhar said, opponents around you wait for you to finish your attack (on an enemy) and you literally have a second or a bit more to counter attack, in Batman AC you have to respond really really fast (in millisecs) especially against a large enemy group.
The fights in SD is good but the combat mechanic is a poor copy of Batmans freeflow combat system.
yeah seconded.
Initially i liked hand to hand combat in Sleeping Dogs, but fighting while using a weapon (like bladed weapons) felt really unsatisfying. And fighting itself was really repetitive. Also you couldn't even keep your knife or handgun for long. What a shame.