Mass Effect 5

[Spectral_Warrior]

Ever since I played through the trilogy its become apparent to me that many are of the opinion ME3 is 'bad' because of the endings.
To which I have come to the conclusion that those people suffer from the exact same thing as those (who're probably the same people) that think Cyberpunk has bad endings.
Let cut this nonsense at the root.
The endings aren't bad in the "poorly done" sort of way.
They are in fact 'fitting' endings of the self sacrificial kind that are designed to leave behind a legacy. Think of it as how the story of Mad Max: The Road Warrior was told.
They are the type of endings many people find though to swallow due to it being considered a sad ending. But sad does not equal bad.
So far I did the 'Control'- ending for ME3, and while one can pick on elements of the plot, overal I found that ending quite tastefully done and fitting for what it is. Would I have rather seen Shepard hug her loved one on a pile of reaper ash with a sunrise backdrop?, sure. But this is not that kind of story.

Reason why I'm writing all this is because I see many parallels with Cyberpunk here.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

To which I have come to the conclusion that those people suffer from the exact same thing as those (who're probably the same people) that think Cyberpunk has bad endings.

Just a guess, but maybe also "amplified" because it's a trilogy and in the previous episodes, endings were like that :

So finishing the trilogy few years later with that, as "final" episode, was maybe difficult to "eat" for some

 

[lyin321]

Ever since I played through the trilogy its become apparent to me that many are of the opinion ME3 is 'bad' because of the endings.
To which I have come to the conclusion that those people suffer from the exact same thing as those (who're probably the same people) that think Cyberpunk has bad endings.
Let cut this nonsense at the root.
The endings aren't bad in the "poorly done" sort of way.
They are in fact 'fitting' endings of the self sacrificial kind that are designed to leave behind a legacy. Think of it as how the story of Mad Max: The Road Warrior was told.
They are the type of endings many people find though to swallow due to it being considered a sad ending. But sad does not equal bad.
So far I did the 'Control'- ending for ME3, and while one can pick on elements of the plot, overal I found that ending quite tastefully done and fitting for what it is. Would I have rather seen Shepard hug her loved one on a pile of reaper ash with a sunrise backdrop?, sure. But this is not that kind of story.

Reason why I'm writing all this is because I see many parallels with Cyberpunk here.

I don't know if that is why people were disappointed by the ending. I think it was somewhat because of what Bioware said (funny parallel with CP77 and CDPR here ) 'the ending will take all the decisions you have made up to now.' or something like that....and then it turned out 'choose a color' more or less. No wonder people memed it
Funnily enough, I had a problem with previous scene in ME3 so the endings never bothered me

Anyway to go back to ME5 - I hope it will be great, but I am little concerned when I remember the name EA

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

I don't know if that is why people were disappointed by the ending. I think it was somewhat because of what Bioware said (funny parallel with CP77 and CDPR here ) 'the ending will take all the decisions you have made up to now.' or something like that....and then it turned out 'choose a color' more or less. No wonder people memed it
Funnily enough, I had a problem with previous scene in ME3 so the endings never bothered me

Anyway to go back to ME5 - I hope it will be great, but I am little concerned when I remember the name EA

Well, from the majority of the comments a read on various media outlets that was the general impression I got.
Now it may have been a case of it being the type of people that complain about anything, but quite a lot were hateful in their subtext.

With regards to the "EA is involved" yeah, I totally understand that

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

Ever since I played through the trilogy its become apparent to me that many are of the opinion ME3 is 'bad' because of the endings.
To which I have come to the conclusion that those people suffer from the exact same thing as those (who're probably the same people) that think Cyberpunk has bad endings.

I haven't played the original trilogy since shortly after the Leviathan DLC, but the endings were just part of the problems I had with ME3. I don't think it's a bad game, though it was rushed - but for someone playing since the first one was new, the way 3 handled important/imported decisions was just hugely disappointing, and the outcomes weren't particularly distinct. At release, the endings were very abrupt and basically showed the Normandy escaping, an explosion with a corresponding colour depending on what your choice was, and a small epilogue after credits showing two figures discussing what happened "so very long ago".

PS one of which (supposed to be a child) looks just like a scaled-down adult model is something I've noticed and cracks me up every time.

My biggest problem was that ME3 failed to recreate my femShep, even with the code/import from the ME2 cc screen, from there the game proceded to completely smash any sense of investment I had up to that point.

Loved the multiplayer.

 

[Notserious80]

Ever since I played through the trilogy its become apparent to me that many are of the opinion ME3 is 'bad' because of the endings.
To which I have come to the conclusion that those people suffer from the exact same thing as those (who're probably the same people) that think Cyberpunk has bad endings.
Let cut this nonsense at the root.
The endings aren't bad in the "poorly done" sort of way.
They are in fact 'fitting' endings of the self sacrificial kind that are designed to leave behind a legacy. Think of it as how the story of Mad Max: The Road Warrior was told.
They are the type of endings many people find though to swallow due to it being considered a sad ending. But sad does not equal bad.
So far I did the 'Control'- ending for ME3, and while one can pick on elements of the plot, overal I found that ending quite tastefully done and fitting for what it is. Would I have rather seen Shepard hug her loved one on a pile of reaper ash with a sunrise backdrop?, sure. But this is not that kind of story.

Reason why I'm writing all this is because I see many parallels with Cyberpunk here.

The endings are bad because they dont take the choices you done in 3 games into consideration. It just checks "war assets" and give you choices depending on how high it is. It hade been talked up too much and it also suffer from some other things i find bad about cp2077 endings, lack of closure. I get some people like it but for me its a bad ending that explains nothing and kinda ruin the whole game. Is it fitting? perhaps but at the same time it really felt like they dident know what too do after talking it up so much. Im also one of those players that hade played them all at release several times over and with it just coming down too: choose your colour was very disapointing.

I remember reading the "reaper indoctornation theory ending" and finding it much better then the one we got. Sadly they kinda said it wasent real ^^

Its better now with the explanation and you can even see Shepard breathe after if you choose "red" with very high war assets(you could before too). Kinda makes me think my femshep will be back in ME5 ^^ They will fit it in there after Me: andromedas failure(i dident find the game in itself bad, just pretty meh in some aspects).

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

The endings are bad because they dont take the choices you done in 3 games into consideration. It just checks "war assets" and give you choices depending on how high it is. It hade been talked up too much and it also suffer from some other things i find bad about cp2077 endings, lack of closure. I get some people like it but for me its a bad ending that explains nothing and kinda ruin the whole game. Is it fitting? perhaps but at the same time it really felt like they dident know what too do after talking it up so much. Im also one of those players that hade played them all at release several times over and with it just coming down too: choose your colour was very disapointing.

I remember reading the "reaper indoctornation theory ending" and finding it much better then the one we got. Sadly they kinda said it wasent real ^^

Its better now with the explanation and you can even see Shepard breathe after if you choose "red" with very high war assets(you could before too). Kinda makes me think my femshep will be back in ME5 ^^ They will fit it in there after Me: andromedas failure(i dident find the game in itself bad, just pretty meh in some aspects).

I've played Mass Effect trilogy through the Legendary edition. Perhaps I should've made that more clear because I indeed have learned they revised some things in that collection compared to the individual (original) installment.

If I recall correctly, the choices from ME 1 and 2 are weighted in the amount of war assets you have or somerhing. I'm not entirely sure to which specific one it accounts for but I believe killing the original counsil for instance decreases your total war assets.
Same as with the Rachni Queen if you saved her twice.
Then the Quarian/Geth situation also dates back from Me1 and 2. And the fate of the Collector base also had a repercussion (though I forgot which one, outside of how Elusive man is towards you) So for me they are accounted for (although maybe not explicitly) and that you're trying to form them into a giant unified fighting armada also makes sense to me seeing as how the Reapers are such galactic threat.

With regards to the colour. I have to admit I didn't care particulairly. And I think the visual highlight may be taken out of context like that.
I mean, it sounds easy and quick to say " I choose blue" what that breaks down what the choice really was about. In this instance: the color blue represents where you effectively become a reaper (or the reaper) and are ascended to ' Guardian of the Galaxy' literally.
Which is quite impactful if you ask me.
(Btw, I'm not implying you dont know what the colors mean, I merely want to point out I dont think of it like that.)

And while I can relate to what you refer to with 'lack of closure and such' I still believe differently in that I dont associate it with "bad"
Fwy, I could almost go and quite the Trainman from the matrix here

Well, seeing my Shepard again in ME5, yes that would warrant quite the story.
Imagine the prerequisite: imported character from ME3 is only possible when you done perfect ending, if not, you're all of a sudden the antagonist, lol.

 

[Notserious80]

I've played Mass Effect trilogy through the Legendary edition. Perhaps I should've made that more clear because I indeed have learned they revised some things in that collection compared to the individual (original) installment.

If I recall correctly, the choices from ME 1 and 2 are weighted in the amount of war assets you have or somerhing. I'm not entirely sure to which specific one it accounts for but I believe killing the original counsil for instance decreases your total war assets.
Same as with the Rachni Queen if you saved her twice.
Then the Quarian/Geth situation also dates back from Me1 and 2. And the fate of the Collector base also had a repercussion (though I forgot which one, outside of how Elusive man is towards you) So for me they are accounted for (although maybe not explicitly) and that you're trying to form them into a giant unified fighting armada also makes sense to me seeing as how the Reapers are such galactic threat.

With regards to the colour. I have to admit I didn't care particulairly. And I think the visual highlight may be taken out of context like that.
I mean, it sounds easy and quick to say " I choose blue" what that breaks down what the choice really was about. In this instance: the color blue represents where you effectively become a reaper (or the reaper) and are ascended to ' Guardian of the Galaxy' literally.
Which is quite impactful if you ask me.
(Btw, I'm not implying you dont know what the colors mean, I merely want to point out I dont think of it like that.)

And while I can relate to what you refer to with 'lack of closure and such' I still believe differently in that I dont associate it with "bad"
Fwy, I could almost go and quite the Trainman from the matrix here

Well, seeing my Shepard again in ME5, yes that would warrant quite the story.
Imagine the prerequisite: imported character from ME3 is only possible when you done perfect ending, if not, you're all of a sudden the antagonist, lol.

Me1 and 2 choices can affect the maximum possible war assets true. Theres very little impact for it tho and i think its even possible too get too the "best" ending with all the bad choices troughout the games. Havent gotten too the end in legendary yet but heard its even more easy now with MP being removed.

I do agree that the concept made sense tho, war assets are a good ide but it feels a bit like a easy fix too. Its pretty much linked too the morality of Shepard (witch choices made at specific points like spare or kill. help or dont help). Blue/red is quite obvious and green is supposedly the optimal one (highest requirements too unlock, exept for the hidden red ending) witch kinda makes sense.

Good or bad is all subjective so i wont argue about it, for me it wasent a very good ending too a great series of games. Even me2 hade bad endings but they atleast felt unike. The crucible kid kinda came outa nowhere, the colour swap on the cut scene are just lazy (atleast make 3 diffrent ones -.-). With the addon for the endings its more varied since you get too know what happends too the worlds you saved/doomed. And they added the shoot the crucible kid ending witch was kinda funny since thats what i did the first time i got too the ending choice screen -.- man i was pissed off. Was it a hero ending? yea i can see that. Just not the one i was expecting/hoping for.

Lack of closure is also subjective so i guess its diffrent for most people. Some like too dream up there own closure, some dont. im probably in the dont category (one of the reasons i really hate open ended movies and series) Id rather dream up my own ending and skip it totally tbh (pretty much what the reaper indoctornation theory was all about) think the fact that it was one of my most beloved series of games that i always looked forward too for years before release kinda made it even worse for me. Also the addon kinda helped with it a bit.

They ofc did the marketing thing too with all the hype and so on. Now days im not at all as pissed as i was when it released just like ill probably wont be that disapointed in CP2077 in 10 years. Kinda think this is why i thought of Me3 ending the second i got too ending choice screen in cp2077 too, i really could not do it the first time i got there.

Tldr: It just wasent for me. Good or bad dont really matter if i dont like it.

 

[The_Blacks]

About ME3 being bad...

I wouldn't say it was trash, but it was most definitely not as epic and wholesome as the first 2, it felt like a downgrade. And going back to the Alliance should've been optional, ME3 should have been the TW2 of the franchise in which we could have chosen Alliance Path or Cerberus Path. The game needed more years of development in order to deliver a final chapter worthy of the other 2.

I have null interest in Andromeda, that game added nothing to the plot/lore. If Bioware wants to make a good ME game they should use the Shepard trilogy as a model even if it's not about him/her

 

[lyin321]

ME3 should have been the TW2 of the franchise in which we could have chosen Alliance Path or Cerberus Path.

No. There were 3 options - Alliance, Cerberus or Independent (Shadow broker )

I have null interest in Andromeda, that game added nothing to the plot/lore. If Bioware wants to make a good ME game they should use the Shepard trilogy as a model even if it's not about him/her

I don't think Shepard is necessary for a good ME game.

Post automatically merged: Jun 7, 2022

Forgot: but yes you are right. ME3 was the perfect game for different 'origins'. Disappointing that it didn't have them.

 

[The_Blacks]

No. There were 3 options - Alliance, Cerberus or Independent (Shadow broker )

I don't think Shepard is necessary for a good ME game.

Post automatically merged: Jun 7, 2022

Forgot: but yes you are right. ME3 was the perfect game for different 'origins'. Disappointing that it didn't have them.

I don't refer to the character himself but the narrative structure and feel of his Trilogy

 

[koalahugs]

I disagree with most people saying the endings were bad because of the RedGreenBlue thing; I think it was bad because, post-climax, there was virtually no character denouement. The main objective was resolved (i.e. the Reapers) - but in terms of character resolution that was really lacking.

Specifically, the epilogue lacked any sort of scene(s) where the main characters are talking to one another (reflecting on what happened, moving forward, etc.)

That's it. I know that sounds ludicrously simple but... it works.

Examples:
LOTR post-climax: main characters talking to each other
Avengers Endgame post-climax: main characters talking to each other
Avatar: The Last Airbender post-climax: main characters talking to each other
Castlevania (Netflix) post-climax: main characters talking to each other
Witcher 3 post-climax: Geralt and Ciri talking to each other
...
Mass Effect post-climax: nobody talking to each other; instead a narrated epilogue by Hackett, EDI, or Reaper-Shep that feels very disconnected from the main characters.

I would rather have seen a couple of reflective scenes with Garrus and Liara (or whoever's still alive) coming to terms with everything to really let things land. Then cue the narration bit and roll credits.

That being said, this next game might be the belated character resolution we've been waiting for? I'm cautiously optimistic.

 

[Shafir]

@koalahugs
Absolute. Presumably, part of the dissatisfaction comes from the fact that there is no happy ending without compromises. This, in turn, is met with a high level of identification with the main character and causes frustration in view of the challenges mastered, even though the highest and most valuable sacrifice, one's own life, is or can be made at the end.

Same "problem" as with Cyberpunk endings.

 

[AvarageEnjoyer]

I love Mass Effect 3 overall and consider it to be a much more memorable work of art than the first one.
However, the game does have problems outside of endings, and overall the game feels like a downgrade in comparison to ME 2, a game that I hold in a very, very high regard.
- The dialogue cutscenes and options sometimes were simply absent;
- The side quests were mostly reduced to travel map manipulation instead of actual missions;
- Illusive man and Cerberus in general were poorly handled, like @Witcheress_Jinx absolutely correctly pointed out, there probably should be a separate campaign for them;
- Kai Leng and his existence;
- Tons of important content, that absolutely should've been part of the main game, were cut out and then sold as DLCs. I guess Javik the last prothean and Leviathans were less important than James Vega;
And the endings feels really inconclusive. Before the Extended cut, it just showed you the colored explosion, Normandy crash landing somewhere and, if you are lucky, Shepard breathing under the rubble. Not to mention the infamous "Thank you for playing, buy DLCs!" pop-up after the star child screen.
Overall though, it was a sincere and great game, with some of the most iconic and memorable moments in the entire series.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Overall though, it was a sincere and great game, with some of the most iconic and memorable moments in the entire series.

Yep, maybe more memorable than the endings themself (at least, for me). Moments which concern "subjects" presented in the very first episode and came back on the table all along the trilogy
Genophage finally cured (or not), after more than a millennium (Turians and krogans who fighting side by side).
Quarian vs Geths conflict resolved. Quarian could possibly return of their home world after three hundred years of wandering.

 

[pliskards]

Maybe I have to revisit it.

When ME3 started I felt like I had gone from playing a thoughtful series with a deep plot and interesting characters to being sucked into a Michael Bay film. It was very much a "Oh, the visuals, gameplay and combat are all significantly better... but now the world feels like a cheap thrill ride rather than anything I have any desire to explore."

 

[Guest 3847602]

My biggest problem was that ME3 failed to recreate my femShep, even with the code/import from the ME2 cc screen, from there the game proceded to completely smash any sense of investment I had up to that point.

My imported femshep looked dreadful, too. It wasn't even close. Fortunately, not long after ME3's launch, a mod, "Lazarus Project" came out and fixed the issue for PC players.

...

Regarding the ending, it wasn't reviled as it was only because it was sad. It was wrong on fundamental level. It didn't fit as the conclusion to the story that was being told:

Aside from the ending (and Cerberus and Kai Leng), my biggest issue with ME3 was the game being too much of a "futuristic war story" and not enough "Sci Fi story". I didn't fall in love with Mass Effect universe because I was eager to listen about the fleet movement, army composition, supply lines, tanks, gunships or placement of AA towers and fuel stations...

 

[lyin321]

Kai Leng

ahh Kai Leng - such a nice memories!

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Aside from the ending (and Cerberus and Kai Leng), my biggest issue with ME3 was the game being too much of a "futuristic war story" and not enough "Sci Fi story". I didn't fall in love with Mass Effect universe because I was eager to listen about the fleet movement, army composition, supply lines, tanks, gunships or placement of AA towers and fuel stations...

I imagine it was a bit forced. In the first and the second episode, Reaper are "only" a threat, but all day long, "the story" tell us that they are legion, they'll darker the sky and it'll be a slaughtery. By finishing the second episode by this scene, the story in the third episode would obviously go to a "total galatic war" were Reapers would be almost everywhere and where organics would try to face it (survive).

 

[Don_the_brawler]

I like mass effect 1, 2, 3 AND Andromeda. I read comments about Androneda and the only thing I ever see is what it did wrong or what people don't like about it. Everyone can dislike whatever they want, so I won't comment much on that. I will say I enjoyed the game. I really did. I had fun. Nothing is perfect. I don't feel like making a lengthy post describing what I disliked about the game, but overall I had fun playing mass effect andromeda and more important than mass effect 5 is knowing how the story continues.

Regardless in whether or not me5 is a good game or not, I wanna know how the series ends. I wanna know if the citadel races can truly flourish in the andromeda galaxy. I wanna see at least a semi-happy ending even if that means when the series ends Ryder may die, sacrificing themself so the rest of the people can build a better more peaceful future. Assuming they pull a ME3 ending at some point.

I do believe me5 'may' be good. I got high hopes. If it fails? Whatever. I move onto the next game. No big deal. I'm willing to take that chance.