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Matchmaking still rigged?

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DRK3

User
#1
I dont know how matchmaking system works but it should probably be something like comparing winrates, levels/ experience or ranks... instead, we get faction and deck structure...

Earlier, i built an Arachas deck, i dont care if its competitive or not, and decided to play it on Casual. I was expecting to see Eithné control and NG reveal, since those are so popular these days...

Instead, in 7 matches, i get 3 boostgards, 2 Adas + Revenants, and 1 SK GS + Dagur. Those are all decks that completely counter the deck i just built, which would be ok if they were very common, but no, it just feels like they were specifiically put there to make my life miserable.

I know im not the first to complain about this, but i honestly expected this to be fixed after the beta, but it doesnt seem like it.
 

nedders

User
#2
I've always wondered about this. You build a deck from complete scratch which has one or two key features, and you're certain it's got a decent chance because nobody plays the specific counter to that deck, then BAM the opponent just happens to have, for example, three lock units.....but in a reveal, not a prison deck.

Same with the RNG - how can the oppo draw the right card so often?

I've often wondered, conspiratorially, that perhaps you don't always play people but AI instead.
 

Draconifors

Moderator
#3
Matchmaking was never rigged like that, even though it could definitely feel that way (I remember having similar thoughts in the past).

There have been multiple threads about this around the internet, including one on these very forums (I'm trying to find it atm).
It's always called a conspiracy theory, so clearly not everyone experiences it -- and if it doesn't affect everyone then it doesn't exist.

Edit: Found the thread I was looking for, here. No direct RED reply, but there is this.
Granted, it's over a year old, but still.
 
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Shabman

User
#4
I'm pretty sure there's something to it. Maybe not as deep as conspiracy theorists might believe it, but there is no way matchmaking is on MMR alone.

I think there's some sort of algorithm at work, at least from open beta days. You can try it out for yourself, change your deck often and see what kind of match ups you get. There is literally nothing I can say except try it and see.
 

4RM3D

Moderator
#5
Those are all decks that completely counter the deck i just built, which would be ok if they were very common, but no, it just feels like they were specifiically put there to make my life miserable.
There is one fatal flaw in your argument; why you? Why do the others get a favorable match-up, but you do not? Regardless, CDPR has already confirmed there is no match-fixing going on.
 

Dawerick

User
#6
This is pretty tinfoil hat territory. Honestly, I think it's safe to assume it's just matching players randomly based on queuing time and obviously MMR in ranked.

P.S. I just went on blue coin 7 times in a row. If this continues I might make a tinfoil hat thread of my own 8)
 

Archan6el

User
#7
It's easy to think conspiracy/rigged when you get owned. Do you also remember how many times you did the owning? As discussed in the links posted by Draconifors, cold hard numbers/statistics are needed, not hunches or feelings. Check out "negativity bias" to understand better ;)

In addition, such "rigging" would ruin the game as it would become very binary and unexciting (win or loss often clear early on in matches). Wins and losses should be very close, making matches exciting. That's why card balancing is done. If matches are exciting, the game will attract more players and I'm sure that's one of the main objectives of the devs.

Edit, add: The topic title is accusatory. Got proof it was rigged in the first place and is still rigged now?
 
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nedders

User
#8
Whilst I agree it's unlikely there's any kind of special bias against a particular player, I do think there might be something at work similar to other online gaming experiences, such as FIFA. If you win a couple with your artefact deck, for example, I do wonder if there's algorithms then aimed at matching you with an artefact-killer. To stop endless winning runs, for example; it's something a lot of online games do by handicapping the opposition, balancing it, and so on.

The key issue for me is that there's a very, very obvious DECK A > DECK B situation. In effect, this means the games are won before and during the initial deal. The most basic players can then automate their process and would be hard-pressed to lose. This kind of situational gaming is very, very bad for the health and longevity of Gwent. People will simply not keep returning if it's down to who you randomly play against - it adds yet another layer of "random" into a game that's already creaking under the weight of RNG problems.

Perhaps one solution might be to choose the factions you're happy for your particular deck to be played against? So I will build my Monster: Consume deck and happily play against any other MO, SK, NG or NR deck.....but if I'm playing against ST, I want to use my ST: Artefact deck. Does that make sense? What it might create is if lots of players are deliberately excluding matches against, say, NG then CDPR will have to look at balancing the faction.

Another idea would be once the matchup is done you get asked "Do you want to play?" - this question is asked once you know the oppo deck and leader. If you've had a lot of crap experience playing Eithne, for example, just decline the match. Nobody gets or loses ladder points. That way, it will encourage people to be a bit more creative with their decks.
 

DRK3

User
#9
1. I am not accusing CDPR of purposefully making the matchmaking like this, nor of targeting single players of course. Maybe 'rigging' wasnt the correct term - i meant using an algorhytm that is biased and doesnt provide matchups "random enough".

2. Another reason i can't accuse them of this - like it was pointed out, i dont have enough data. Even with over a thousand hours, my case alone would probably not be enough to support my statement, hence why i posted here - to look for more opinions.

3. I am aware of how 'negativity bias' works, and i dont think this is the case.
Lets see: most people are using very popular decks, that are versatile and provide good results often, with as little risk as possible. But then one decides to go 'outside the box', and create an original, highly specific deck, and he would expect to face the popular decks he was facing before... but the matchmaking now seems to put it vs. other specific decks, where one counters the other completely.
That or crazy mirror matches, where you create a deck you've never seen before, then are immediately paired with some exactly the same (happened me at least a dozen times in the beta)
 

Shabman

User
#10
I will refine my comments as well. This is not about making you lose. I think it simply matches people with decks that compete against each other somehow. I was running anti-finishers in my deck, such as Geralt: Professional and Scorch, and I kept coming across decks with big finishers like Aglais and big scorch targets like boosted bears. Which doesn't necessarily mean I always won (or lost). Because spend that Scorch at the wrong moment, or give CA to opponent and it's over. Without a good point advantage, giving CA to an Aglais deck was an auto lose.

Then I became kind of unhappy with many other aspects of my deck and how the traps and all that synergyzed, so I changed up some stuff. One of the changes was putting Aglais in there. Lo and behold, I started coming up against anti-finisher decks. My favorite was a Kambi that discarded my Aglais right out of my hand lol. My deck is much stronger now and has better synergy, but I'm losing more with it for some reason.

Anyways, I'm sure there's something there. So, as superstitious as you may find me, you have to be really careful when building your decks and balance them properly so as to make sure nothing "sticks out" - like hmmm this deck has a strong finisher, or too much horizontal removal, or too much of this, or too little of that.
 

Bagros_CZ

User
#11
I'm only level 4, but every battle I fight against level 30+. How can I have any chance with starter cards?!

Repair MATCHMAKING!!!
 
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rrc

User
#12
I'm only level 4, but every battle I fight against level 30+. How can I have any chance with starter cards?!

Repair MATCHMAKING!!!
May be there are not enough new players around that time? Bring your friends to Gwent and ask them to do so (and so on) and create a chain of new members to the game and forum. This will help everyone. Cheers!
 

nedders

User
#13
Serious question, not a rant. I reinstalled the game after the artefact nerf to see if it had improved - it has, a little - and built a NG deck that had some success in casual so went into Ranked. Won a couple, then got matched against this MO deck using Eredin to give immunity to Ge'els, and then proceeding to - ofc - have a hand FULL of deathwish units (oh, look - another lucky deal, yay!). Now, I have no answer for that because there no Nirvellen to move Ge'els and no scorch to kill it - the ONLY options, right? (tell me I'm missing something!)

I have now played against this particular deck FOUR times out of the last five. Lost every time, because each time I play against it they always get the same deal (or get Dandelion who is effectively a four boost for a specific card you want to play) and I have no response for Ge'els. This has happened before with Artefact/White Frost or SK/Xavier - very specific card does the job, but you then NEVER face that particular deck when you're running the anti-card. So I'll try to include Scorch, I suppose, but I would bet good money that as soon as I do, I won't face that deck!!!

All seems very tin foil hat, but there's another thread about it somewhere so I know I'm not alone - does anyone else get this?

By the way, if it DOES exist, CDPR will never admit it - see "FIFA momentum engine" for more details!!


NB - I added Scorch, and in the subsequent SIX matches faced NG 5 times and SC once. Last game ended with me having a useless Scorch and lost the game, again vs NG deck. I then took Scorch OUT of the deck, first matchup - SK damage/boost!!!!! He had FIVE 4 str cards on the board, one scorch would've blitzed it - but, nope, not in my hand anymore.

I call fix, 100%.
 
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Shabman

User
#15
Lol these fans are such complainy-cats. One day they complain about waiting too long in matchmaking because there's no one to play, now they're complaining they're not playing against real people. Just can't satisfy these guys, don't even try CDPR!

You don't need them anyway, just keep stealing away those Hearthstone players and keep stacking that $$$