Stop it. You're going to make me tear up again, just like I did when I first heard that.
Yeah, I had it in my pre-E3 Quandaries FAQ. I should find a place for it around here.
Hold on!
I never said 5.56mm, and certainly not at any significant range (up to about 300m they do fine). We were more-or-less discussing "sniper" caliber weapons, 7.62mm or better.
Also we weren't discussing class IV high threat armor but something someone is more likely to actually wear, say IIA or less.
I NEVER said civilians couldn't get better armor.
I said heavy armor is a pain-in-the-ass to wear and no one in their right mind would wear it day-to-day unless they were in an actual combat zone. Plus it's expensive.
This is a serious question.
Have you ever actually worn Class IV or better body armor for any length of time (say 4+ hours)?
You're not an idiot, I just suspect you're a typical armchair expert. Unfortunately reading everything you can find and seeing stuff in the store isn't the same as actually using it. Look at all the people that claim that any handgun under .44mag is a peashooter. I'd wager almost none of them have put a single round downrange with one, and if they have fired one I doubt it was more then 5-6 shots. Not only is the weapon itself bulky and heavy (thus annoying to carry) unless you're Hulk Hogan firing the damn thing is murder on your wrist. That's why most folks go with 9mm or .40cal, the weapon is reasonable to carry, you can spray-n-pray without breaking your wrist, and ammo is much MUCH cheaper.
Back to body armor.
I've worn everything from Vietnam era flack jackets to the Improved Tactical Vest for days (hell, for 72 hours straight during Gulf I) and none of it is something anyone wears unless they have to. To assume every other third-rate gang banger would wear it day-to-day (even if they had it, improbable) is just plain ludicrous. You really think gang bangers in Night City walk around dressed like this?
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Probably they are trying (I know two dev' from Quantic Dream and Cyberconnect 2, and they confirmed you don't do that kind of work without passion anyway), but I also think they made promise about Cyberpunk 2077 a while ago they already say they won't be able to keep.
Not sure what you are talking about, but this is game development. Nearly everything can change. A promise isn't a solemn vow never to be broken no matter what - it's a statement of serious intention.
Also they haven't said "We promise X" very often. Can't think of any they've broken, off hand.
"Recently, however, Mike Pondsmith—the creator of the pen-and-paper game Cyberpunk 2020—confirmed that CD Projekt Red’s adaptation would include Cyberpunk 2020‘s unique spin on RPG classes in an interview with GameReactor.
In Cyberpunk 2020, players didn’t choose from expected sci-fi RPG classes like mechanics, engineers, soldiers, and doctors, but could instead took on the role of a corporate overlord, a journalist, a punk rocker, or a street doctor, among others.
Pondsmith said that these roles would be present in Cyberpunk 2077 but with “some surprises about how we’ve done it.… There’s a lot of subtlety going on there."
"A robust character creator will allow players to choose V’s gender, visual appearance, character class, as well as historical background — all of which may influence the shape of the game. "
"Kicinski, Cyberpunk 2077 will allow players to choose between different classes and create their own character. This is quite the departure from the studio’s The Witcher games, as players have always played as the pre-made Geralt of Rivia instead of making their own character from scratch. It will be interesting to see how this change impacts Cyberpunk 2077‘s narrative structure compared to CD Projekt Red’s previous games. "
"Mike Pondsmith, the creator of "Cyberpunk 2020" shared some details about the game's classes during an interview with Game Reactors last June. We can expect that the character classes from the original game will be carried over in "Cyberpunk 2077." These classes will not be limited to Cop, Rockerboys (rockers), Nomads, Netrunner (hackers), Corporate, Fixer (information brokers), Media (reporters and journalists), Solo (bodyguards and assassins), Med-Tech (doctors), and Techie.
Whether all of these character classes will be included in the game, that is remain to be seen. However, according to Pondsmith, a lot of these, if not all of them, will be in the game"
"Cyberpunk 2077's quest designer Patrick Mills has been on hand to explain exactly why CD Projekt RED thinks this is important. In short, the developer wants players to feel as though the story they are playing through is their own.
In part, this comes down to the game's emphasis, and its roots in a tabletop game where the player is able to build their own character. "It’s an RPG before it’s a shooter," said Mills, "and it’s really about making a character and inhabiting that character and living in this world and making choices from not just the point of view of that character but also of yourself."
Technically they didn't lie:
1) These roles will be present in CP77, but most likely as NPCs. Like the corpo-overlady and the fixer.
2) You will be able to choose between three classes. Well, two and a half?
3) You create your owncharacter version of V. By picking one of the three backgrounds and idols, and being able to customize the visuals! Possibilities are endless, right?
1) These roles will be present in CP77, but most likely as NPCs. Like the corpo-overlady and the fixer.
2) You will be able to choose between three classes. Well, two and a half?
3) You create your own
I don't agree with some of the decisions CDPR has apparently made, but the game is still SERIOUSLY in development and things can, and will, change (hopefully to something hardcore CP2020 fans like). But never once have I felt they lied to anyone.
That's the claim.
Now it may well be (and probably is) that the demo was created for journalists, many of whom wouldn't know an RPG if it bit them in the ass. So it was pretty, had LOTS of combat using mechanics most game journalists are familiar with, and didn't dwell on 'V' as a character but rather as an avatar you shoot from (again something game journalists are familiar with). Is there more going on behind the mechanics, maybe, maybe not. At this point it's all speculation based on what we can see in the demo.
You're biased
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I am actually being a realist here. Just look at what exactly they are saying. It's important, because everyone can read it any way they like. And that the first step down the road to disappointment. So it's better to have that moment of realization now rather than keep inflating it and have it burst in your face.
Always, obviously.
It's just too bad that it's also always the RPG crowd compromising the most (regardless of if the end result is satisfactory for what it is) and too often to the point that it makes the entire game second grade when it comes to being an honest RPG.
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Actually it have already "burst in your face", as I only quoted things that I have already been showed not being there: Only one role (with the other ones taunting you), three classes and a strongly defined main character.
Not that it disappoint me enough to stop being interested in the game, but enough to make me stop having dreams about it for sure. It will still probably be an open world Mass Effect in the Cyberpunk 2020 setting, which is good enough for me.
We are a smaller audience after all.
But that doesn't mean we'll be ignored by CDPR as is the case with most developers (or more probably their publishers). CDPR likes making money (who doesn't) but they're not E/A where that's their only goal.
Spending time here to find that out since 2013 (or when ever the blog opened).
True enough. People don't actually like RPG's as much as it might seem on the outset, they like a handful of (often watered down because otherwise it's "cumbersome" and a slew of other adjectives that come from the mindsets of other genres) token features and the genre label mentioned in the games description.
Or... so it would seem. I do actually think that if made right and with care, relatievely faithful RPG gameplay can be fun for the masses. Most people aren't that rigid (-ly against it), and often the opposition comes out of inexperience and ignorance.
Looking at how well the Original SIn duo has sold... for a shoestring budget (relatively speaking) indies, is a pretty good indicative of that.
But... Here's for waiting a couple of years more to learn if there's something interesting to be had with this outside of nice looking city and seemingly cool narrative themes.
DOS 1 & 2 are great examples. Dialogue-heavy, no player voice acting (with the exception of comments on the environment/a situation), chance-based skill checks (I believe.. maybe the game just hides hard-locks well), etc.
However, it is also has that certain type of "magic" that makes modern RPGs like Skyrim fun for people. That go anywhere, do anything, sandbox aspect. Many approaches to a situation.
My problem, if you can call it that, with the game is the lack of any real class system and the way combat works. I don't like being a warrior-tank with 6 different spell schools on my hotbar, and I don't like that every single ability looks like a spell (and does either "magic" or "physical" damage - why is a warrior doing magic damage?)
Getting off-topic a bit, but TL;DR, yes, DOS1 and 2 nailed it and more modern RPGs could learn a lot from those games.
Well... That's kind of the first time I've heard that one. There're 12 classes in the first game and 14 in the second (in additione to 5 races -- or, technically 9 with the undead variants). They aren’t very restrictive (in a DnD sense), but there are some distinctions. There are several (4 I think it was) hotbars you can self-arrange the way you want (1 per ability tree if you want, one per element if you want, all mixed bags if you want....). You aren't really supposed to build an everything-man (but you aren't stopped either... it's just way harder - and kind of boring - to play that way since you progress much more slowly), but compensate the lackings of your character with party memembers.
I don't particularly like that either.
Buuut, as said. This is off topic.
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1. Those are mostly quotes from Mike Pondsmith. He doesn't work for, or speak for, CDPR. He is very much his own guy.
2. There are three Roles. Solo, Netrunner and Tech. They have different abilities and skillsets. Which you pick affects how your game plays. You may have decided there is just one Role, but that is not the case.
Complaining the game isn't close enough to 2020 is pretty funny when you don't seem to realise the difference between Roles is very small. It's one Special Ability and some (crossed over in most cases) starting skills. Thaaaaat's it.
The change CDPR has made, apparently, is that you can actually have Role crossover. Something many PnP Refs allow because it's silly not to. And they've added some kind of abilities, maybe? So they've actually made them -more- like the kind of class structure you are expecting. Changes.
Which Pondsmith warned us about in that interview. There will be changes from the PnP.
Oh and the article writer keeps calling them classes. Not CDPR. They are Roles and that's because this is not DnD. A Role is a job a person does.
In 2077, you get to pick your stats, your skills, your appearance, your Lifepath and your Role. That -is- making your character.
YOU may have wanted a more, I dunno, Dragons Age kind of class structure, but that's not Cyberpunk.
I was refering to the Solo roleplay, cause of the pure (lone on top of that) mercenary V is.
Other roles tend not to be so much like that.
Actually those specials abilitys reflected more than just a character skill, but how the world fitted them.
Not everyone can use a Corp assets for example.
Aside from the special abilities, you could try to do what other Roles did, just a LOT less efficient:
-Convincing people into joining your ideal, just not on the same scales.
-Be fast in combat.
-Do anything but use the Menu.
-Repair things, just not instant.
-Heal people.
-And so on.
Which is precisely why I made use of the two terms to differenciate when I was speaking about the Roleplay part or the Mechanic part.
You don't choose your Role (I refer to the roleplay part). You are a Solo, the world act with you as a Solo and you get jobs fitted for Solo.
@Sardukhar I think the point of contention here is that CDPR's games aren't as open-ended as 2020. V is a mercenary by design - whether you like it or not, you WILL shoot, you WILL kill (most likely), you will most likely have to "go loud" quite a bit.
You may technically be able to do netrunner-like things, but at the end of the day, a solo is what you are because V is a pre-determined character. For example, she's forced to get solo-focused implants like a subdermal weapon grip.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree (though I see the merits of that argument), just trying to clarify what I think
@KakitaTatsumaru is getting at.
You may technically be able to do netrunner-like things, but at the end of the day, a solo is what you are because V is a pre-determined character. For example, she's forced to get solo-focused implants like a subdermal weapon grip.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree (though I see the merits of that argument), just trying to clarify what I think
@KakitaTatsumaru is getting at.