Oh, we aren't off topic. Example 2020 skill rolls are very much this topic.
Thanks for the "reminder" though. A reminder which is, yes, off topic. Whereas this reminder, being a suggestion to be on-topic, is on-topic.
See?
Thanks for the "reminder" though. A reminder which is, yes, off topic. Whereas this reminder, being a suggestion to be on-topic, is on-topic.
See?
So would I. It’s very much an accustomed and safe approach today with ARPG’s and action-adventures ”with-some-stats” alike.
Once it’s made official, I’ll have to do some pondering on how high a shadow it casts over the experience.
Debating about it has been fun, though.
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It depends on what kind of a game you want to make. And what kind of players you are aiming for.
People do have serious issues with the RNG in general, but you have cRPGs with rolls, games like Blood Bowl, Space Hulk or X-COM - games where the RNG is a huge part of their design, and they seem to be profitable enough to be kept being made, so I don't think that the RNG itself would be the problem.
But there is a serious risk that by targeting such a niche - and creating a difficult, non-player-skill oriented game - you will stunt your potential audience, and I do agree with Sardukhar that it isn't a very likely scenario the CDPR is going for.
Like kofeiiniturpa said some time ago: if concessions are to be made, we can be sure that it's the RPG side that will be forced to make them. I will be very surprised if this doesn't hold true.
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It sure does.
Hey! That's me!
The more you know.
Yep. If it had been up to me (in a strange hypothetical parallel world where I made computer games), I would've never gone for mass audiences and trying to be the biggest and bestestest at doing this, because it always comes with a huge burden that limits the range of possibilities and forces in ill-fitting and costly supplements and replacements to pollute the design according to which you then need to plan for.
This is really the saddest part of all this. Aiming for widest audience - which I presume is kind of a must with this scope - comes at a dear cost.
I don't believe people are really that rigid to not accept new (to them, and compared to what they are being offered constantly already by every other studio) concepts, but that's just a guessing game on my part.... perhaps I'm wrong and they really are.
RNG in some games can fuck you so hard so fast, good examples are X-Com and Darkest Dungeon, but even then those games are fun, also many people who have problem with RNG refuse to save game, since they are not in to savescumming.
I hope Cyberpunk 2077 turne to be more RPG then FPS, but for now that demo look much much more FPS with intend to aiming for widest audience who are more into fast FPS games like CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch and other FPS games.
I would not be surprise if Battle Royale is only mod for Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer.
I hope Cyberpunk 2077 turne to be more RPG then FPS, but for now that demo look much much more FPS with intend to aiming for widest audience who are more into fast FPS games like CoD, Battlefield, Overwatch and other FPS games.
I would not be surprise if Battle Royale is only mod for Cyberpunk 2077 multiplayer.
They could - hypothetically - offer both RNG and gates.
Check a box in options to either "yes/no" all the checks or to allow the character to try those things. I don't think the check system itself would be too choresome to implement, but the different success and failure states with all that entails for all the different checks might (although, I don't believe it'd be overwhelmingly so). Kind of like houseruling (as with few other things that are prompted for optional in these discussions).
Check a box in options to either "yes/no" all the checks or to allow the character to try those things. I don't think the check system itself would be too choresome to implement, but the different success and failure states with all that entails for all the different checks might (although, I don't believe it'd be overwhelmingly so). Kind of like houseruling (as with few other things that are prompted for optional in these discussions).
You and me both.
This is why I tend to assume non-RPG gameplay will dominate the game.
Nor do I.
Just because X, Y, or Z is currently popular doesn't make them the "best" or "correct" choice.
A game should have a style, and mechanics, that fit with it's theme. But all to often we see the style and mechanics dictate the theme. And that seems to be the case here. We have an RPG being turned into a first person action game.
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Yeah. Very true.
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You know... I always had this idea, that if Cyberpunk was brought to FPP, it would ideally be kind of like... Fallout (1&2) meets Morrowind (of all games)... on steroids.
That there is a narrative arc and a definte goal, but while it is strong and even urgent, it is also loose and highly open. And after character creation, you are pretty much left to your own devices to figure things out in a world, where there is a looming danger, but no hurry to slide fast forward past everything because every scene is packed with potential interaction, and the game isn’t 95% visual props with a few set pieces sprinkled here and there. That you actually want to observe your surroundings and feel the sense of interaction and discovery. And the characterbuild really is the most essential tool the player has (not the controller of choice).
The more I think of it, the more assured I get that inspite of its inherent clumsiness, Morrowind actually lacks very little mechanically and conceptually from being an ideal FPP RPG (barring blobbers).
It was always a pipedream, of course, but I don’t think impossible to realize.
Anyways... It’s waiting game again to see it the WIP status brings anything interesting (”fixes” and additions) to the table when ever the time is for new info.
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Can't say I was that impressed by Morrowind, it was a descent enough game but not anything to write home about.
I tend to think Fallout 1&2 meets Arcanum.
The whole "steampunk meets magic" thing was very interesting. Two conflicting views on on the world should work. And as a character you could go one way or the other and there were significant advantages to doing so, or you could very, very carefully try to straddle the fence and while not great at either you gained a versatility that was noteworthy in it's own right.
While mechanically 'Arcanum' has it problems (some significant ones) there was a good story-line that sucked you in and really forced you to think about tech vs magic. Was one really "better" then the other? Was it possible for them to coexist? Did tech with it's smog, (essentially) slave labor, and working class poverty as the 'haves' exploited the 'have nots' really benefit 'the masses'?
Really? I always thought it was the best cRPG back then.
You had to explore a foreign land (and I mean, really, really foreign).
You had a multitude of skills - all of which did something - and a total freedom in mixing them up, opening all kind of possibilities in your character creation.
You were free to explore a beautiful and vast world in the first person, without really being limited by anything (you could walk on water or fly over the land, in addition to being able to simply walk or swim there).
You could make some crazy custom spells with the help of the magic system.
Your armor wasn't just a single piece and all of it had to be maintained to be effective.
You could pick up anything that wasn't bolted to the floor.
You couldn't steal openly, or sell stolen goods back to their owner.
All in all it was an amazing game and a breath of fresh air for the entire genre.
Yeah, me too. Obviously.
But I meant mechanically and as a concept specifically for first person perspective.
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I didn't think it was the best, but it was very interesting and used its mechanics precisely as I had expected from an RPG.
It was the last "actually" good Bethesda RPG to boot.
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My "problem" with Morrowind is the same "problem" I've has since Daggerfall. Eventually you master every skill, become master of every guild. Yea it's "open" too "open" there's zero game focus. It's a big repetitive sandbox. Kill stuff, loot stuff, rinse, repeat. The occasional bit of story or lore for variety.
And I agree about Morrowind @kofeiiniturpa .
It's true that TES formula could use some refreshment. Or they could use it to inspire something else. Because what they have fits very well into a concept of permadeath.
In fact, it could be a great foundation for CP77 as well, given that in CP2020 dying is easy. All you would need is an ironman mode and more modular quests (generated per-playthrough) to shake up who the quest givers are, what are your objectives and where various locations are.
It's an old thought, but came back to me after seeing the scene where V leaves her apartment and enters the city streets (in the demo).
It'd had been really neat and... appetizing, if that scene showed more interactivity prompts with the UI than just the cola-add. That it wasn't merely a slide through impressive props.
That the mouse hovering over things would've pressented possibilities through skill checks. And so that not all skills are necessarily hardcoded to push you through the critical path.
Even with the AI bots.
Now these are really ugly, but it took like 2 minutes to make them and the point should come across.
I remember. I talking about "all" the NPC's. That the player can try to interact with any of them somehow. Not nearly everyone need to respond in any specific way, nor do all the attempts at an interaction need to succeed or fail in some grandstand manner; some should, of course, more or less (so that the interaction pays off and isn't just for flavor). Just let the player... attempt to interact (with random results where interaction is possible). Perhaps they could even introduce the "Human Perception" skill to locate "possible interactions" (if the check is succesful).
CDPR has been adamant at pushing things forward. This'd be something not seen in games of this scale, and pulling it off at least to some extent would definitely increase the games appeal.
CDPR has been adamant at pushing things forward. This'd be something not seen in games of this scale, and pulling it off at least to some extent would definitely increase the games appeal.
Not "dialog" per say, I'm talking about here. It doesn't need to be anything but short oneliners that might offer:
- Info about (and trigger to) a close by random encounter
- Info about a job the player might have in his to-do list
- Random trivia about Night City and its goings ons that might or might not be useful
- A "Fuck off" or "I don't have the time right now" response (which might be the most usual thing you'll ever hear, but when it isn't, it's rewarding)
That kind of stuff. Just little things, in addition to the other forms of small interactions (pickpocket, pick a fight, seduce... what ever might fit the bill). The NPC's that are meant to have dialog, have it already.
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This is essentially what Red Dead Redemption 2 has done with its dialogue system. You can greet, antagonize, threaten, or rob literally any NPC in the game. And you never know how the interaction will go.
I was riding through the countryside at night and came across a camp with a lone individual sitting at it. Most of the other campers I'd come across just tell me to fuck off, and if I don't, they pull a gun and threaten me until I do.
This guy, however, invited me to come sit down and take a load off, which I did (used his fire to cook a bunch of meat). After talking for a while (he'd say something, then I can respond), he got bored of my company and told me (politely) that it was time I was on my way. I was still busy cooking so I ignored him at first, and after several more warnings (increasing in intensity) he pulled a gun and that got me out of there real quick.
Of course, these interactions will eventually wear out (you can only record so many unique lines of dialogue, and if you talk to almost everyone like I do, well...), but it was admirable of R* to try.
As much as it sounds like I'm just tooting the game's horn, there's a point to all of this: random NPC interactivity can be done. It's the one thing we never thought would be possible, but it is, apparently. And it's BS to say it can't be done in a game like 2077 just because it's more complex, because RDR2 is ridiculously complex and it works just fine.
I liked your images. Simple, but I believe they would be effective. Maybe if you seduce someone successfully, you can take them back to your apartment and bed them, with just a few lines of dialogue during the trip (no deep character development needed there - interactivity is the goal here, not story).
Maybe threatening people can act as a robbery, a la RDR2. They will respond differently depending on who they are.