Mechanical Faithfulness to Cyberpunk 2020...

[Suhiira]

A certain amount of semi-random stuff can, and should, certainly exist in any "open world" game.

If it's just the same options, dialog, interactions, etc. over-and-over what's the point of an open world? Seriously, what's the point? There isn't one. it's just a Marketing buzzword ticked off a list, no more.

While it's clearly HIGHLY impractical (to the point of essentially impossible) to make every encounter unique enough need to be to matter. If, as in many games, there are a small handful of unique encounters it's really more like random chance that players will even see them. As a rule-of-thumb I'd say around 20% need to be unique to encourage players to actively seek them out.

 

[Snowflakez]

A certain amount of semi-random stuff can, and should, certainly exist in any "open world" game.

If it's just the same options, dialog, interactions, etc. over-and-over what's the point of an open world? Seriously, what's the point? There isn't one. it's just a Marketing buzzword ticked off a list, no more.

While it's clearly HIGHLY impractical (to the point of essentially impossible) to make every encounter unique enough need to be to matter. If, as in many games, there are a small handful of unique encounters it's really more like random chance that players will even see them. As a rule-of-thumb I'd say around 20% need to be unique to encourage players to actively seek them out.

Yeah, the game does everything you just mentioned. Obviously, you CAN talk to any NPC and you will eventually run out of dialogue, but there's still lots of unique stuff going on in the world. Some turn into full-fledged missions, others are just fun little diversions. The NPC stuff is more icing on the cake than "this is the backbone of our unique encounters."

It feels like more of a "why SHOULDN'T players be able to do this?" than anything. I mean, in the real world, I can talk to whoever I want, not just NPCs with question marks above their head. That doesn't mean every NPC needs to be fleshed out - after all, do you know anything about the guy you said hi to in the supermarket the other day? No.

I'm not sure how much of that is possible in 2077 now, though. Even if it's still heavily "WIP" as they keep saying, its' unlikely they're going to drastically change the core gameplay loop at this point. Mechanics? RPG systems? Sure, why not? Entire encounters, how those encounters develop, and NPC interaction systems? Ehhhh...

2077 is and probably always will be a story-heavy game. Interactivity with the world, and unique random encounters, well, I'm not expecting much there. TW3 did "OK" in that regard, but nothing ever really felt organic. I can't fault them, it's just not the type of games they want to make.

 

[Sukkapunch]

How about being mechanically accurate as far as it being multiplayer

 

[Sardukhar]

How about being mechanically accurate as far as it being multiplayer

Doesn't have to be multiplayer to be mechanically accurate. One player, one GM games are totally doable. In this case, CDPR is the GM.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

How about being mechanically accurate as far as it being multiplayer

Multiplayer games are even less accurate, as PVP social interractions aren't using the social system.
For example in a good RPG social characters will fare as well as a combat character, but in multiplayer PVP the social character cannot use his ability to persuade/intimidate the other player while the PVP player have acces to his combat abilitys.

 

[SigilFey]

Multiplayer games are even less accurate, as PVP social interractions aren't using the social system.
For example in a good RPG social characters will fare as well as a combat character, but in multiplayer PVP the social character cannot use his ability to persuade/intimidate the other player while the PVP player have acces to his combat abilitys.

Maybe social ability could result in something like AI characters that are available to support the player in MP. At lower-level social ability, I might be able to call 1 or 2 NPCs to help me out. At the highest level, a group of 5 or 6 might come running to my aid, or maybe a small number of higher-tier types of NPCs.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

2077 is and probably always will be a story-heavy game. Interactivity with the world, and unique random encounters, well, I'm not expecting much there.

CDPR has tried to underline the gameworld interactivity in the past. They even hired a guy specifically for that purpose (iirc), and in the demo they also try to push it forward (although the only example is the vending machine add).

I’m not so sure the intention is to just tell a story.

Maybe it is, though, and all this talk is pointless (like so many other topics seem to be), but... eh, they have implied otherwise.

 

[Sukkapunch]

Ya pencil and paper rpg's were originally meant for solo storylines lol. Who you trying to kid?

 

[Snowflakez]

CDPR has tried to underline the gameworld interactivity in the past. They even hired a guy specifically for that purpose (iirc), and in the demo they also try to push it forward (although the only example is the vending machine add).

I’m not so sure the intention is to just tell a story.

Maybe it is, though, and all this talk is pointless (like so many other topics seem to be), but... eh, they have implied otherwise.

I may have missed that, then. I would be happy to be proven wrong, that's for sure. Because as excited as I've been for the game, I'm starting to get worried that the game will just be a theme park.

That doesn't mean it'll be a bad game, of course, but I know I don't have to explain that to you.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I may have missed that, then. I would be happy to be proven wrong, that's for sure.

There is that, sort of, defeatist mentality that’s like an instinct that drives to oppose or shove aside anything even remotely more complex than what people are used to because ”it just ain’t gonna happen, that’s just too much” or people just want another familiar thrillride just like the previous ones they’ve had. And then nothing happens ’cause people are fine with what ever they get. And the industry itself isn’t helping either because they know they don’t have to.

It’s a very realistic way of looking at things inspite the negative connotation of the word ”defeatist”, though. It doesn’t lead to disappointments. I should know, this is right now the only - and possibly the last - mainstream title I follow, because the mainstream just won’t serve my kind of audience anymore. That’s my defeatist attitude.

It certainly is a thankless uphill fight trying to push for these things knowing that they’ll never happen, but then... maybe, like with the games themselves, ”it’s about the journey, not the goal.”

Or perhaps that’s too hopeful way of looking at it too as there’s no happy ending to be had, just different versions of defeat.

 

[Snowflakez]

There is that, sort of, defeatist mentality that’s like an instinct that drives to oppose or shove aside anything even remotely more complex than what people are used to because ”it just ain’t gonna happen, that’s just too much” or people just want another familiar thrillride just like the previous ones they’ve had. And then nothing happens ’cause people are fine with what ever they get. And the industry itself isn’t helping either because they know they don’t have to.

It’s a very realistic way of looking at things inspite the negative connotation of the word ”defeatist”, though. It doesn’t lead to disappointments. I should know, this is right now the only - and possibly the last - mainstream title I follow, because the mainstream just won’t serve my kind of audience anymore. That’s my defeatist attitude.

It certainly is a thankless uphill fight trying to push for these things knowing that they’ll never happen, but then... maybe, like with the games themselves, ”it’s about the journey, not the goal.”

Or perhaps that’s too hopeful way of looking at it too as there’s no happy ending to be had, just different versions of defeat.

I'll still play the frack out of it, just like I did with TW3, and I think it'll still be an objectively (and subjectively, for me) good game, I just think it's time for me to lower my expectations. I've grown older and stupider wiser since first hopping on this hype train, thanks in no small part to all your healthy cynicism.

All of that said, I think CDPR will innovate in at least a few different ways. Not sure what those ways are so far because I haven't seen them, but it'll probably happen. I wouldn't say they've ever been a company that just followed the pack and does what everyone else does. Or, if they do, they do it better, smoother, and with their own satisfying twist. It's why TW3 was hailed as one of the greatest ARPGs out there as opposed to, say, AC Origins or Andromeda.

Anyway, back to the topic...

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

All of that said, I think CDPR will innovate in at least a few different ways. Not sure what those ways are

Can't figure out any either since everything that'd be to that effect, that has been mentioned during these years, hasn't really received much - or any in some cases - favors neither in the demo nor by CDPR (at least out loud) nor in the forums.

 

[Rawls]

The dialogue system / actions within dialogue system definitely looks innovative to me.

 

[Snowflakez]

The dialogue system / actions within dialogue system definitely looks innovative to me.

I think the way it was described to us initially sounded more innovative than what we saw. Previewers were telling us that you could, say, look at an object in the environment or at someone's tattoo to open up new dialogue. If we see that, then I'd agree with you. But for now? Unless I'm misremembering it was just... dialogue. Nothing special about it. Pick an option, V says it. No added depth there. Basically Witcher 3 but with the illusion of it being more active (assuming you have infinite time to pick options in most scenarios).

I'll admit the ability to take out your gun at any time is neat, though.

 

[Rawls]

Nothing special about it.

Looking at items did bring up action prompts (like signaling to the woman in the hallway to go back into her room, or stepping back from the trauma team dude, or grabbing the gun from Stout's goon, or drawing down on Royce as a threat). They seem unique to me in that they're interactive cutscenes. It's still a narrative cutscene, with scripted movements by NPCs and the like, but the player is in the scene, and can take actions as well as speak dialogue. Maybe I'm just not contemplating other open world games that do something like that, but I can't think of one.

 

[Snowflakez]

Looking at items did bring up action prompts (like signaling to the woman in the hallway to go back into her room, or stepping back from the trauma team dude, or grabbing the gun from Stout's goon, or drawing down on Royce as a threat). They seem unique to me in that they're interactive cutscenes. It's still a narrative cutscene, with scripted movements by NPCs and the like, but the player is in the scene, and can take actions as well as speak dialogue. Maybe I'm just not contemplating other open world games that do something like that, but I can't think of one.

No, you're right, it seems I'd forgotten the smaller details like that. I was just expecting to see the stuff that I mentioned, that previewers had talked about (looking at someone's tattoo, looking at an item in the room). But there were definitely some other little options that seemed to guide the encounter.

 

[Suhiira]

Always keep in mind we've only seen a pre-alpha press demo.
Lots of action, lots of shooting, very little RPG, spectacular graphics, because that's all most of them understand.

I expect LOTS of changes from what we've seen. The question is ... changes in which direction ... more action-shooter or more RPG.

 

[Poison19]

If release in 2019, they have barery a year to put changes in the game. They must be on finish line and polishing the game i think.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Looking at items did bring up action prompts (like signaling to the woman in the hallway to go back into her room, or stepping back from the trauma team dude, or grabbing the gun from Stout's goon, or drawing down on Royce as a threat). They seem unique to me in that they're interactive cutscenes. It's still a narrative cutscene, with scripted movements by NPCs and the like, but the player is in the scene, and can take actions as well as speak dialogue. Maybe I'm just not contemplating other open world games that do something like that, but I can't think of one.

There is already that during some dialogues in some Mass Effect and in some interractive movies.

Post automatically merged: Oct 31, 2018

Always keep in mind we've only seen a pre-alpha press demo.
Lots of action, lots of shooting, very little RPG, spectacular graphics, because that's all most of them understand.

I expect LOTS of changes from what we've seen. The question is ... changes in which direction ... more action-shooter or more RPG.

Personally I don't thinks there will be much changes, only more interactions.

 

[Rawls]

There is already that during some dialogues in some Mass Effect and in some interractive movies.

It's very different. Mass Effect has them in separated cut-scenes, not within the gameplay portion of the game itself. Also (with the exception of Andromeda ... which has far fewer interrupts than the other games, they aren't open world games.

As far as interactive movies, they aren't open world. Bringing that tech into open world is very complicated from a design perspective.