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[Mega SPOILERS] Immersion Destroyer.

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E

EtherealSand

Rookie
#681
Jun 15, 2015
Mr_Walker said:
As usual, the term "immersion breaking" is used as a gross replacement for "I don't like it". What do you think should happen after end-game? CDPR should create a whole new world (more than one required actually)
Click to expand...
Yes it would require a lot of resources for them to make proper post game state. @GingerEffect paints a small picture on what would happen should they decide to do this.


GingerEffect said:
It is a matter of priorities.

Like Sagitarii says, including conversations and dialog for all possible worldstates after you finish the game would have been an enormous undertaking.

I would like anyone who thinks this is an easy thing of just keeping the NPCs around to think for a moment.

1) Every NPC would have to react to all possible world-states that affect them. For the major NPCs that would be all of them.
2) They need to have different scenarios of where they are and what they are doing, logically, depending on the endings.
3) Even entire areas might have to change dramatically if we were to showcase the ending world states

And this is just a small list of considerations that ultimately led to the decision to not include this. As is the case with branching stories, they get heftier and heftier the further you go down the branches. To add tailored content to the end world would be a huge a undertaking if we were to do it right (and we don't like to do things unless we do them 'right' particularly when it comes to story and plot).

And before you yell that this was lazy on our part...please remember that we already have one of the heftiest scripts in gaming and so many voice over sessions that it boggles the mind.

Just remember...there is never such a thing as "JUST" adding something when it comes to a game like this.
Click to expand...
A lot of their work will likely go into aesthetics (changing the areas, character placement, etc.) It's really a question of is it worth putting all this effort into this as opposed to putting it in other content. I'm not the deciding judge of what gets passed but if it does it will have to be satisfactory or else complaints of dissatisfaction will continue.

Not trying to shut down the idea but it just seems like if they decide to do this then content and fixes to the main game that they could have made with the time and resources that will be put into this will not be made.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
D

Dibre

Rookie
#682
Jun 15, 2015
Scholdarr.452 said:
I don't see why you need an after credits gameplay the way it is NOW.
Click to expand...
I think the people aren't asking for after credits content right now, they are just pointing how important is this game have a post-end state.

Well about the story-driven only we'll not change our minds, you and many others see a story driven only game, i and many others think that this game is a Open World RPG (with strong rp elements and great main story). The problem is; your way to view will exclude possible features -like the post-end state-, and our view don't affect anyone (only CDPR because they will have a lot of work).

What EtherealSand said is important: remember why the post end state must be official, because consoles will have support.

Mr_Walker said:
As usual, the term "immersion breaking" is used as a gross replacement for "I don't like it". What do you think should happen after end-game? CDPR should create a whole new world (more than one required actually) just so players can go on a bit of a sightseeing tour after they've finished the game?

The world's still "alive". Plenty of villagers about, also secondary quest givers and contracts, just none of the people related to the main story line because, you know, you've finished the fucking story!
Click to expand...
Please, this sounds rude, try to be civil. Your final statement shows one missing point of the post-end. You finished the main story, but then you're hurled back in time-line in a point where we were expecting a reward for the progression to the end-game. The main chars are banned and you are stuck in the time. That's why a save point near to the end makes more sense than this post-end free roam.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
D

dzbrown

Rookie
#683
Jun 15, 2015
EliHarel said:
I would do away with it altogether as well, because in my unkind way, I think a story-driven game should end when it ends. It creates a stronger impact. But since CDPR already inserted post-credits play, they're in a pickle. If they decide to remove it now, I imagine there will be an outcry from many who are having fun with it and don't mind its state. If they keep it, there will be those who wonder why isn't there more effort put into it (even though I took it to just be a player friendly bonus to those who wanna continue roaming regardless).
Click to expand...
I wish I could rep this guy like twenty times, because this is exactly how I feel. I realize, especially among open world games, that there is this desire for 'free roam' after the story is over, but the problem is that you have probably already done most of the side quests, monster contracts, and most, if not all, of the treasure hunts. So even though it is 'open world', it isn't really. Your secondary quests have to be done in the context of the main quests, and the monster contracts are usually things you just 'pick up along the way'. Given 'time and resources', I would much rather have them tighten up the main storyline given that this is, arguably, Geralt's last tale in a trilogy. I also personally wouldn't mind more of an expanded slide show at the end that goes into the fates of some of his trusted companions as well as other characters that have made us curious along the way, i.e the Lodge, Eskel, and some of the 'tertiary characters' that still have an impact on Geralt's life, though in differing ways.

I like endings. I think they are important. They make you appreciate things, they make you remember them, they allow you to reflect on a story as a whole. Endings teach you things and put the story in context. I guess I would be more supportive of 'after story' options if this game was more of a sandbox, but it's not. It's a story-driven experience first and foremost. I think it's all a bit confusing because there is a sort of open world to it, and by implicit assumption of that we have this idea of continuing after the story is over, but what would there honestly be to continue? Throw some characters in select locations with minimal dialogue to make us feel gooey inside that they are there and to make us feel less alone? Wouldn't you prefer CDPR to beef up character interactions, tidy up plot holes and story weaknesses? I would. Maybe I'm being selfish by asking that, but I think if you really look at it...that's what this game needs: more politics, more character interaction with Geralt's friends and loved ones, more family interaction between Geralt-Yen-Ciri (credited to Zeroscape) more exposition on the Wild Hunt, some more on the Aen Elle, Avallac'h's ambitions, etc. etc. (see Scholdarr's long thread for more) Maybe there are few that would disagree with having more of that, but it seems to me (at least from reading these forums as of late) that this is much desired and somewhat sorely needed.

LiquidState said:
Nooo way. That'd be a really mean joke from CDPR, man.
Click to expand...
Imagine if he woke up from Yen's little bathtub monster after passing out in the tub at Kaer Morhen.

whitewoof said:
Or to make things more interesting, that epilogue shouldn't have existed. Since there's two expansions coming, it makes no sense that Geralt retires or moves far away. While slightly out of topic, I think the game epilogue should have been right after the final scene at the tower, with Geralt feeling lost thinking Ciri's dead, which delays him moving in with Yen/Triss, like in the sad ending where he hunts the last crone.
Click to expand...
I've been wondering this. How does two full length expansions really fit into the context of the main story? Are we supposed to just disappear for 30 hours to go to Toussaint while Ciri is struggling to survive? Or undertake some bold quest in Velen for this Man of Glass? If it fit in the context of the main story, maybe I could see it as being more plausible, but I really hope they are able to fit this into the appropriate timeline within the story to make it seem somewhat believable. Otherwise it's just more side content and just extra hours of play, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just not what it really needs right now. If they were clever, and CDPR is most certainly clever, they could think of how these expansions could both bolster the main story as well as be strategically placed within the story to add opportunities for additional exposition, backstory, clarification, and general 'meat' to the story itself (hint, hint), while also providing an interesting side plot to boot.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
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M

Mr_Walker

Rookie
#684
Jun 15, 2015
Dibre said:
I think the people aren't asking for after credits content right now, they are just pointing how important is this game have a post-end state.
Click to expand...
You have finished the story. Done. Finito. All gone. The "post game" world is there purely as a sop for people to be able to go through and finish undone secondary quests and contracts. It's not meant to reflect any of the end-game states, nor does it ever pretend to be, and to be honest I'm amazed both that people seem to think it should and that they're outraged it doesn't. Why would any of the main characters be there? Just hanging around in case their buddy Geralt shows up?


Dibre said:
Please, this sounds rude, try to be civil.
Click to expand...
It was stated that way for emphasis, not for rudeness. :)

---------- Updated at 03:14 AM ----------

dzbrown said:
I've been wondering this. How does two full length expansions really fit into the context of the main story? Are we supposed to just disappear for 30 hours to go to Toussaint while Ciri is struggling to survive? Or undertake some bold quest in Velen for this Man of Glass?
Click to expand...
Heh. That's always been the Achilles heel of the open world RPG.

"I have to go north to face off against the incredible danger that threatens the world, only I can do it!








"But first I have to head down south and pick a flower for some dude I just met".


It's the trade off you have for open world gameplay. :)
 
D

Dibre

Rookie
#685
Jun 15, 2015
Mr_Walker said:
You have finished the story. Done. Finito. All gone. The "post game" world is there purely as a sop for people to be able to go through and finish undone secondary quests and contracts. It's not meant to reflect any of the end-game states, nor does it ever pretend to be, and to be honest I'm amazed both that people seem to think it should and that they're outraged it doesn't. Why would any of the main characters be there? Just hanging around in case their buddy Geralt shows up?
Click to expand...
And we're pointing that post-game is broken to a good ammount of players, the poll shows that. People just prefer reload a save or replay the game from begining than playing the free roam. This Witcher game reached a level so high, a world bigger than Skyrim, great graphics and gameplay to stay closed to the main story. A lot of people came expecting to dive inside this incredible World, the story is great but bind one of the most amazing Worlds created to the main story is a waste of potential.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
S

Smurfin

Senior user
#686
Jun 15, 2015
They should make a different style of storytelling for TW 3 and make it so that the end doesn't have to be the end, it's the end of the story, but it's not the end of the gameplay. It's a story driven game, the gameplay would be weak without story and important characters for backing it up. They've created a lot of contents for the game, the world itself is huge, it'd be a waste for the potential the whole game has.

Imagine if TW3 has no main quests, just contracts, exploration ? quests, treasure hunts, etc, all but main quests, it'll feel a lot different. Even an MMORPG has a story for backing up the game world, even though it's just there for the sake of it and feels bland.

There is no point in releasing REDkit if there is no continuation to the game after the story ends. (free roam)

---------- Updated at 04:20 AM ----------

See it this way, when we start a new game, we have :
-Prologue
-Mainquests
-Sidequests
-?Quests
-!Quests
-Treasure Hunts
-Epilogue

After we finished main story, we have :
-Sidequests
-?Quests
-!Quests
-Treasure Hunts

Imagine if it's done differently, we'll have "new" stuffs beside the leftover quests pre epilogue :
-PostEpilogue (make every world/character state in narratives happens in the real world)
-MainquestsPart2 (only appear after epilogue)
-Sidequests
-?Quests
-!Quests
-!QuestsPart2 (only appear after epilogue)
-Treasure Hunts
-SidequestsPart2 (only appear after epilogue)

The game will still retain its value for all the leftover quests and still stand for "new quests" that only available after the mainstory ends, it did end, but the ending is disguised ;D eventhough if those part2 quests were taken from the original contents, but they're only presented after epilogue, it doesn't have to be all new contents, just presented differently. Instead of mainstory, now we have history to back up the game world and all its contents, in the form of real characters/world states from the narratives.

Like GTA5 for example, the completion percentage says 60% after the credit rolls. So the rest 40% contents take place AFTER the credit rolls, and the main characters are still in contact.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
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L

latios507

Rookie
#687
Jun 15, 2015
Guys, my other poll is gaining momentum. In less than 20 hours we're closing in on 300 votes already

The only difference here is, I emphasized more on the context of romance rather than other characters. It'd appreciate if you haven't vote, please visit the poll.

I believe those who are involved in this topic's discussion have a common goal: The issue of empty post-world content.
We can start with something, and romance is one of the area we can look into. Think about it :)

=============================
Staying on the topic; There will always be people that says "the game is good enough, it's the end" and the other one "we need more"
You can never satisfy both sides. But it would be wise to cater the side that have the most voices (which in this case, "we need more")

Sure, the game has ended but that doesn't mean there's no room for new content. Don't have to be a sourgrape saying it's all over, but try see it from other perspective of "What can be improved" (Be more critical) instead of shooting down people's idea.
 
F

frozenkex

Rookie
#688
Jun 15, 2015
latios507 said:
Guys, my other poll is gaining momentum. In less than 20 hours we're closing in on 300 votes already

The only difference here is, I emphasized more on the context of romance rather than other characters. It'd appreciate if you haven't vote, please visit the poll.

I believe those who are involved in this topic's discussion have a common goal: The issue of empty post-world content.
We can start with something, and romance is one of the area we can look into. Think about it :)

=============================
Staying on the topic; There will always be people that says "the game is good enough, it's the end" and the other one "we need more"
You can never satisfy both sides. But it would be wise to cater the side that have the most voices (which in this case, "we need more")

Sure, the game has ended but that doesn't mean there's no room for new content. Don't have to be a sourgrape saying it's all over, but try see it from other perspective of "What can be improved" (Be more critical) instead of shooting down people's idea.
Click to expand...
That's a silly poll, why would anyone vote to not get more content.... A better poll would be either Post-game or dlc before the ending, Act 3 dlc or something like that.

Need more content before the ending not after, because as most would agree its Act 3 that is lack luster and has lack of interactions.
 
S

Smurfin

Senior user
#689
Jun 15, 2015
frozenkex said:
dlc before the ending
Click to expand...
The 2 announced expansions will take place before the ending. 30 hours content combined.
 
F

frozenkex

Rookie
#690
Jun 15, 2015
Smurfin said:
The 2 announced expansions will take place before the ending. 30 hours content combined.
Click to expand...
you can play those dlcs post game, most likely, like contracts. As I was saying Act 3 was lack luster/felt rushed, this is what this topic also talks about. More character interactions etc.
 
D

Dibre

Rookie
#691
Jun 15, 2015
What you think about put the post-end just a little after the Wild Hunt plot and before the End of War? We would just need the main characters new lines about what happened and would not need to do great changes in the World.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
M

Madjnun

Rookie
#692
Jun 15, 2015
Mr_Walker said:
You have finished the story. Done. Finito. All gone. The "post game" world is there purely as a sop for people to be able to go through and finish undone secondary quests and contracts. It's not meant to reflect any of the end-game states, nor does it ever pretend to be, and to be honest I'm amazed both that people seem to think it should and that they're outraged it doesn't. Why would any of the main characters be there? Just hanging around in case their buddy Geralt shows up?
Click to expand...
Full agree!
 
Krull32

Krull32

Rookie
#693
Jun 15, 2015
Saadkhan11 said:
I hope we all realize that this endgame depression stems from an epilouge that really doesn't satisfy you. What we really are asking for here is a bit more of these characters. A little bit more. Why?? Because they were not given the closure in a satisfactory manner. Now I can understand Ciri's epilouge being quick as she is very likely to be a main character next time around but really Geralt's story is also wrapped up in a similar manner. That is like telling Gondor kneeled before the hobbits and then Frodo said goodbye to his buddies and went to the undying lands in the same slideshow way. How good would that be??? Please CDPR, all of this postgame depression can be easily given an end to if you can give us a few cutscenes like Geralt moving into a new home with Yen and a bit of dialouge or Triss going to Kovir with Geralt or something like that. A cutscene closure to some characters would be the best thing. That way we would not be asking for more because we know what happened to these people because we saw it happen. For example, I would have no idea what happened to Triss if I had not watched a video because my Geralt ends up with Yen and in that scenario the player is never told what happens to her. So, a more fleshed out epilouge (which isn't a slideshow) is the best way to go. I also wouldn't mind if it is bundled with the upcoming paid expansion or something. That said, this is one of the best games out there which could benefit from a better closure.
Click to expand...
This....


gogadi said:
But i won't also say "no" if there were some interaction with the main characters after the mainstory
Click to expand...
...and this !

+ a few final Dialogue after the victory and one last Scene with yennefer or Triss. And Done. :like:
This would do it. Thats an Ending. I dont need Quests etc....

And like i said before , i know it costs money and i would gladly pay for it.
20-25 € would be ok for me, if the content is convincing.
Same like buying a special edition of an movie you really like but, already have it.
 
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latios507

Rookie
#694
Jun 15, 2015
Saadkhan11 said:
I hope we all realize that this endgame depression stems from an epilouge that really doesn't satisfy you. What we really are asking for here is a bit more of these characters. A little bit more. Why?? Because they were not given the closure in a satisfactory manner. Now I can understand Ciri's epilouge being quick as she is very likely to be a main character next time around but really Geralt's story is also wrapped up in a similar manner. That is like telling Gondor kneeled before the hobbits and then Frodo said goodbye to his buddies and went to the undying lands in the same slideshow way. How good would that be??? Please CDPR, all of this postgame depression can be easily given an end to if you can give us a few cutscenes like Geralt moving into a new home with Yen and a bit of dialouge or Triss going to Kovir with Geralt or something like that. A cutscene closure to some characters would be the best thing. That way we would not be asking for more because we know what happened to these people because we saw it happen. For example, I would have no idea what happened to Triss if I had not watched a video because my Geralt ends up with Yen and in that scenario the player is never told what happens to her. So, a more fleshed out epilouge (which isn't a slideshow) is the best way to go. I also wouldn't mind if it is bundled with the upcoming paid expansion or something. That said, this is one of the best games out there which could benefit from a better closure.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more.
 
S

Strangerxxx56

Rookie
#695
Jun 15, 2015
Scholdarr.452 said:
And what do you exactly do? What's role playing here?

I say it again, the game has no content for such a mode. There is literally nothing to do apart from killing the same low level generic enemies over and over again.

So you are ignored because the game was never made to offer content after the finale. This was never the focus of the game. Open world here only functions within the boundaries of the storyline.
Click to expand...
Higher i wrote my suggessions,so the game setting allow to do many things.Even in books Geralt took part in celebrations,politiks and so on.
So to say that there is no sense in high end content is smth like to say that geralt should be with Yen(wich i strongly hate),but not with Triss(wich i lobe since book series).
Why i wrote this?just because iin ane case there should be hight end content,but to play or not to play must decide a player itself
 
U

UndiscoveredAdv

Rookie
#696
Jun 15, 2015
The Empress ending has a really good framework I think (in that you get to see Dandelion, Zoltan and Yen/Triss), though it could perhaps be expanded on.

Maybe after the epilogue quest (depending on your romance decisions):

You have a scene of Geralt and Triss, or Yennefer and Geralt sat together admiring a view.

Or Geralt and Dandelion chatting around a campfire.

You then get to converse with Triss, Yen or Dandelion respectively about what has happened: The final battle, Ciri's fate, what the future holds for you and the character you are with.

The game can then fade to black...

As Triss/Yennefer and Geralt sit and take in the beauty around them together.

As Geralt and Dandelion sit in silence watching the campfire together.

(obviously these scenes wouldn't play if you got the Ciri dies ending, as they wouldn't really fit)

Then, in the very last shot, we either see:

(Witcher Ending) Ciri and Geralt embarking on a Witcher hunt together: both drawing their silver swords as a monster rushes to attack them.

(Empress Ending) Ciri sitting on the throne of Nilfguard being crowned Empress.

(Ciri Dead Ending) A swallow flying high above the trees.

Just some ideas, though I'm not sure how well they would work. I don't envy CDPR, all the variables they have to work with! There's also the big risk of an awkward disconnect between the epilogue and any subsequent scene(s), which makes me realise why they may have taken the approach to the endings that they did.

I also realised that this still doesn't cover what happens to Yen/Triss if you don't romance them. Maybe it could be brought up when you're talking to Triss/Yen/Dandelion. It's also worth noting that you do discuss the future with Yen/Triss at certain points earlier in the game, just not during the epilogue.
 
Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
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OutgoingHermit

Rookie
#697
Jun 15, 2015
Scholdarr.452 said:
Because it serves no purpose at all. You could have the very same result by just reloading a savegame from before the final hours of the main story. Exactly the same thing. So by deleting this you wouldn't even take something out...
Click to expand...
It does serve a purpose. It gives people who beat the game a chance to see the stuff that they missed and also play any newly released DLC without having to start up a new game and go through White Orchard, etc. to get into it. And not everyone can load up a save from just before the point of no return, because maybe not everyone has a save at that point. Obviously, there are some problems with how the post-game save was implemented, but they can't just remove the feature. It would hose people who didn't leave behind multiple save games and/or already kept playing after he credits.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the way the postgame is handled is disappointing (i.e. minimum viable effort), and I appreciate that this thread exists. I like this thread, and I agree with the general premise of this thread, and I'm banging my knife and fork on the table for CDPR to give me more along with the other posters in this thread. But simply patching out the postgame (even temporarily) isn't going to happen... and it would be silly if it did.
 
G

gogusar

Rookie
#698
Jun 15, 2015
buffbutler said:
and it would be silly if it did.
Click to expand...
Certainly, white knight. why would yuo need added content. and what can WE, teh old fans of the series, do with the hordes of happy new comers. Look at the wild hunt section - one of them is happy to the point of requiring medical attention...
 
0

09talamonteo

Rookie
#699
Jun 15, 2015
To all the new faces on the thread, welcome and I'm really happy to read these responses and idea's, try to stay on topic as much as possible. ;)

Remember to check out the original post and the Poll's on there to add another layer to this great feedback!
 
S

Smurfin

Senior user
#700
Jun 15, 2015
Is there any history in a video game where a developer really listened and gave what the majority of fans want ?

I think we are all dressed up but nowhere to go.




.........................................................................:construction::scooter:
 
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