[Mega SPOILERS] Immersion Destroyer.

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[Mega SPOILERS] Immersion Destroyer.

SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!

This is about the immersion being destroyed at the end of the game.
Don't read if you have not completed or don't want to know the ending.

- Read -
So finished the story, two of the three possible main ways and also gave victory to Redo and second time to Nilfgaard... I got the ending I really wanted Which was Geralt and Yen moving away and finding peace and love together. Nilfgaard winning the war, which stopped the genocide in the northern kingdoms and Ciri becoming Empress... I was basically really happy with this ending.

But then after I had my preferred ending I was dropped into a empty lonely castle and when I went out from a lonely cold castle... no longer inhabited by Witcher's I went into an empty world, no longer inhabited by friends and family... The entire world which I had made in the game, was basically gone. Completely ripped me out of the immersion, also really hurt the ending for me.

I couldn't See or talk to the people who I had had this massive journey with or talk to them and say "Hi, How are things?" When I was passing through... It was a small thing but it literally made me not want to play the game after the ending, since it felt like the whole game world had suddenly become hollow. Like with the possible ending of Geralt alone with no one... even though I had made an ending that was happy and bright for all the people involved it resulted in the same hollow world.

I don't know if its just me but I really feel that Red should have at least put the main characters in the game after the end... Ciri talking with the Emperor/Travelling passive from inn to inn and you can sometimes bump into her and say Hi, Yen/Triss and Geralt living together, but obviously Geralt being able to travel and take on Monster Contracts. Had Red done this I would have come outta the ending feeling that the game was complete and that I could go around doing Contracts and side quests well also feeling that the world was full of people I care about and had saved(or not).

It completely toke me outta the game... I dunno about you.

------------- Update: 18:29 31st May 2015 --------------

The following is the RED Post as well as my response to catch people up about basically the next 30+ pages of posts and information being discussed.

It is a matter of priorities.

Like Sagitarii says, including conversations and dialog for all possible worldstates after you finish the game would have been an enormous undertaking.

I would like anyone who thinks this is an easy thing of just keeping the NPCs around to think for a moment.

1) Every NPC would have to react to all possible world-states that affect them. For the major NPCs that would be all of them.
2) They need to have different scenarios of where they are and what they are doing, logically, depending on the endings.
3) Even entire areas might have to change dramatically if we were to showcase the ending world states

And this is just a small list of considerations that ultimately led to the decision to not include this. As is the case with branching stories, they get heftier and heftier the further you go down the branches. To add tailored content to the end world would be a huge a undertaking if we were to do it right (and we don't like to do things unless we do them 'right' particularly when it comes to story and plot).

And before you yell that this was lazy on our part...please remember that we already have one of the heftiest scripts in gaming and so many voice over sessions that it boggles the mind.

Just remember...there is never such a thing as "JUST" adding something when it comes to a game like this.



Okay just going to comment on this post. Which just seems to have taken the first comment where someone has given a reason for them not doing anything and gone with it.


That scenario was not what the majority of people have been asking for with this entire post. Hate to ask this, but did you actually read the thread? I think not.


What people are asking for, and sure some people did say it would be cool to experience an after end game state, but not the majority. The majority of people want the characters back in the game and concurred that a post Epilogue state of the game which would literally have not required any change, except the characters implementation.


Okay, now to move onto the presentation of facts and what we as a player base were asking for compared to this:


1) Every NPC would have to react... No, Every character does not know what happened in Skellige after the Epilogue, and only Ciri, Geralt and Avallac'h knew as well as probably Yen/Triss...
2) They need different scenarios, only three, and that's in the case of the Epilogue, without the post Epilogue, literally no work.
3) Entire area's need to change dramatically. Nope, post the Epilogue, the zones are still in a war-time state, the war is not over yet. The war ends, which entails these massive changes post the Storyboard, after the Epilogue. If you didn't do the Epilogue, nothing has changed because the story hasn't ended at all.


Sure, there is never such a thing as "JUST" adding something, but there is a thing as improving something to make it more enjoyable, rewarding and making your fans happy, as well as satisfied with the end of the game. As well as being able to still feel immersed in the game world for DLC content, continuing their game.


I really hope that you make an effort to discuss this, and next time actually read the thread.


Because, for almost 250+ pages of this thread it has been discussed, the options you have and what would have been really, the best way to implement this change and it seems you have taken the one option no-one realistically expected and said, "Oh yes, we can't do this because... Or it would be extremely difficult to do this because..." when we already know these reasons and thus didn't make that a realistic option in the first place, more of a shiny dream enjoyed by some players...


The fact is that ending the game after the Epilogue was realistic and the best option to really conclude, Geralt's story. Your story board acts as a form of insurance for the player, to know that their character will enjoy said future, well also in the right time to have all the side quests still available, active and relevant, as well as all the characters deployed in the game world.




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I just wanted to add that I don't mean to be picky here or in any way aggressive, as I'm sure it reads, it's in my nature to pick apart arguments or words. But, I have literally been reading this thread since the first reply all the way through to now and have seen countless people come and give their opinion, opinions of feelings of the end of the game and then opinions and really interesting discussions about how CDPR could incorporate a solution realistically and achieve-ably. To have all that discussion take place and then to have a RED post literally addressing the only opinion we really didn't expect to happen, as being Extremely hard, and the way the post is made, as being not really an option in their eyes, is really disappointing nor does it feel like all the feedback has been thought about or taken in at all.



------------- Update: 17:07 01st June 2015 --------------

The following is the RED Post made, in response to the continued discussion being put forward in regards to the End-Game state.

Originally Posted by Seldkam View Post
What an absurd post that red made... Truly disappointing, a sad attempt to dodge fan criticism? I can't even understand why one would post that, when the majority of people talking about end game states either don't care about a state that changes by the players decisions, and those that do care about choices are mostly fine with paying for it

i mean really... Dude needs to work in pr before posting something like that, he needs experience lol

Hi,

I am sorry I am not a PR representative and don't only tell you things that are PR approved. I speak from my personal experience and outline reasons why we did what we did.

Please remember I could have just not said anything, but I saw that a lot of people are commenting on this...and a lot of people asking why we don't "just" add some more dialog lines to NPCs for after the game, so I explained why it is not as simple as it may seem.

It is always refreshing when a community engages in dialog about a solution to a problem. Often, we may find new ways to approach things, which is why I am here.

I will, in the meantime, pass the suggestion of using the last savegame before the final mission as a starting point for the "After Ending" game on. I think this is a good idea that we can look into for a patch.

As for Expansion content after the main game, I will also add that to the feedback. I outlined in my reply why this is a more expansive change/addition, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

In the meantime, thank you for keeping the discussion civil and for the suggestions and feedback!

---------- Updated at 08:24 AM ----------

Originally Posted by jojimbo View Post
WOW! What a body blow. Guys seriously at the very minimum, just place them in the world, at Kaer Mohren for the Witchers (inc Ciri if the Witcher ending)
Place Triss in a flat, Yenn in her room at Kaer Mohren, they dont even need to say anything apart from "Hey Geralt" or something, it's just so you can go on in the world happy with the knowledge they are in it with you.

I will happily pass on the suggestion to the rest of the team.

Blows, incidentally, were not intended. I merely pointed out the difficulties of the things that have already been requested by people in this and other threads about this topic.

Apologies if this was taken as an insult or attack.

------------- Update: 03:13 22nd July 2015 --------------


Okay, HELLO Everyone, I do read all the comments and I keep up to date with the thread! Just not had my account logged in for a while... So a few weeks ago I received some new information from a secret informant, who told me to go check out the information provided in a thread, numerous RED posts giving information about the relationships in the game.

I read through the thread, and I don't recommend it to anyone... it toke me 8 hours to get through it all.

But to get to the end of my point it was very informative... If you plan to go read it, I would say glance at the points being made and take note of the RED posts being made. I think they speak for themselves but I'll try to get through the main points below.

So they made statement talking about what the problems are with adding in dialog and such and adding in interactions.

They then went on to say it is basically very doable and that it is being discussed opening in the company.

A RED post then went on to say this "I wouldn't go as far as calling it new content. We will be implementing small additions and tweaks in character dialogues that should please many folks in this thread. "

and was followed by another post basically stating that it was going to be worked on and that basically other issues will also be treated the same way and worked on also...

Here is a link to the thread, please go read the RED posts especially and tell me what you think!

LINKYLINK!


An update to the post with a conclusive suggestion which is in my agreement what we are asking for...

Originally Posted by Witcher_Erune Nilfgard:
Radovid lives: Change nothing!
Radovid dies: Remove pyres and witchhunters / add nilfgaardian soldiers
Dijkstra rules: Remove pyres and witchhunters

Geralt Romance:
Triss (Radovid lives): At Kaer Morhen preparing to move to Kovir
Triss (Radovid dies/Dijkstra rules): At her old shop (preparing to move to Kovir)
Yennefer: At Kaer Morhen doing magic stuff (playing around with megascope etc.) or in a small house outside of Novigrad/Kaer Morhen

(If not romanced they are at the same locations, just without the romance option and/or different dialogues.)

Ciri:
Ciri empress: In Vizima castle preparing to be crowned
Ciri witcher: Training at Kaer Morhen or playing Gwent in an inn (option to do contracts with her)
Ciri never returns: Change nothing!

Roche/Ves:
At their hideout preparing to leave it with different dialogues depending on the wars outcome.

Dandelion/Priscilla/Zoltan:
At the Chameleon.

Avallach:
Change nothing! or at his hideout

Thaler:
At the Seven Cats playing Gwent.

Skellige Ruler:
Cerys rules: Place table in the "feast hall" (Kaer Trolde) where she's sitting and doing paper work. (A short conversation about Crachs death would be good.)
Hjalmar: Standing next to Cerys. Make it look like he's trying to advise her.

Hjalmar rules: Place table in the "feast hall" (Kaer Trolde) where he's standing looking on maps. (A short conversation about Crachs death would be good.)
Cerys: Standing next to Hjalmar. Make it look like she's trying to advise him.

Svanrige rules: Place table in the "feast hall" (Kaer Trolde) where he's standing looking on maps.
Birna: Standing next to Svanrige. Make it look like she's trying to advise him.


(Basically same location/dialogue/animation. Change only the position of the characters, depending on who became the ruler.)

VOTE HERE

General Vote: http://strawpoll.me/4536523

More detailed Vote: http://strawpoll.me/4547104
 
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My thoughts exactly. I don't get it why they decided to delete them from the world. We are getting info this is world before the final battle so there is no reason at all why Yennefer, Triss or Ciri would be unavailable - I am hoping it's going to be fixed - or perhaps they are hidden somewhere but that's just less likely. Also there is a problem with an upcoming dlc - some new appearance of yen - only way to see it is to load older save or going through the game again?

I really hope so that new dlcs they are holding for us will bring side-quests with main characters - nothing long, but something connected to the world we created by our choices.
 
I completely agree, I would have liked to at least be able to interact with the main characters after completing the game it felt as though they were basically not sure how they wanted to end the game, since it says that you are in a state pre-last mission, but you are also in a world with the worst outcome... Kinda like they got to the end of development created that world and didn't create the other possibility's... Would be really epic if they could either put the characters in as though it were before the final chapter or alternatively and really how they should have ended the game, have the world morph to how you ended the game and leave it that way for you to then go about doing contracts...

To me it felt as though after all this time waiting for the game to be finished they got all the way through and then just really didn't finish it. The game felt not complete after the end. I would have just liked to have seen the game world have a final state that you can then explore to keep you interested and really feel the decisions you made and the impact of them.

Like if you support Nilf, they could have just switched out Novi and have Nilf guards and banners and still have the corpses of dead spies instead. It would have not been a large amount of work to do some simple things that really would have rounded the ending off and really make you want to play through the game again. See Ciri moving around Battling Monsters I can see being a bit more work but I wouldn't think having her just spawning in random villages and maybe jumping in on a few of your contracts with you would have been very hard. And Geralt alone would have basically been easy. And having Triss/Yen living with you would have been really simple. Just Spawn you in a house with them at the end and that is then your little home...

It just kinda really didn't feel like a proper way to end Geralt's story.
 
To be fair what did you expect CDPR to do add a hole end game with more quests similar to red dead redemption actually that would have been cool.
 
No, not loads of new quests just an end game state where you can go about doing contracts looking for treasure, and complete side quests... didn't need a load of work just something that you could explore, my ideal end game state would have been literally just after you complete the game, including the Story board. All the side quests are relevant that you keep at the end of the game. So I see no problem with it... really, it would have just fully concluded the story for me. (Personal Opinion)
 
No, not loads of new quests just an end game state where you can go about doing contracts looking for treasure, and complete side quests... didn't need a load of work just something that you could explore, my ideal end game state would have been literally just after you complete the game, including the Story board. All the side quests are relevant that you keep at the end of the game. So I see no problem with it... really, it would have just fully concluded the story for me. (Personal Opinion)
Well honestly you should not even be able to play after the credits since the ending of the game should greatly affect the world around you. Its like your playing in a state before ending pretty much anyway.
 
Just like having Ciri and the Emperor looking over a map and studying it and you being able to talk to them and say "Hey, How are things going?" and them saying something like, "Its tough in the capital. There is much to do. but I'm getting a hang of it." - or something would have been perfect. And the Emperor saying something like, "Geralt, Ciri is very busy and I am also..."

And being able to interact with Yen/Triss a little bit, Geralt - "Yen/Triss, How are you/How was your day?" Triss - "Well the king had a lot going on this week so we had... (blah blah blah)" Yen - "Hi Geralt, should we go for a walk later?" or something like that.... would have just completely made the end perfect.
 
So true, i felt that too, now i cant even think about the game, its makes me feel sad, why couldn't they at least spawn them somewhere in the world and make the option to told them to follow you, fight with you, trade or something, when i finished the game and spawn in the castle i searched for the storyline characters, and nobody, he lives in a lonely castle. i hope they gonna make an update or someone make mod or something, i have no interest to play the game right now, i feel so bad... :(
(BTW im sorry my english is pretty bad)
 
Exactly what I was talking about... It really made the game feel like no matter what you do you will end up with the same inevitable state... which ruined the immersion and story a lot.

Yeah, it felt as though they were going to end the game with some conclusive end game states, but only did a bit then just decided to end with a little pop up saying that its set before the end of the game...

Maybe, they ran out of time or money, but since the game had been delayed twice already, I really don't see that being the case... since they were intent on making this game the best they could possibly manage!
 
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I agree too,I just wanna see yen any time i want,she's making my life better.Devs PLS!:mean:


Yeah well hopefully, they will do something, maybe with a patch or in the expansion. I really do hope that they do this. Since it would make me want to play more and experience the world again and again knowing my decisions would allow me to experience an end game, where I can then explore and do contracts...
 
Yeah. I thought I was the only one with this on my mind, thank Jesus that someone else feels empty too, lol.

After the ending, and Ciri becomes Empress, I really, really, really, thought that we would be able to visit her as the Empress, but no. I was wrong. Which is so dissapointing, I don't even want to play the game right now due to this, it just makes me think I've accomplished nothing and I am forced to go back and do sidequests with no changes.
 
Yeah. I thought I was the only one with this on my mind, thank Jesus that someone else feels empty too, lol.

After the ending, and Ciri becomes Empress, I really, really, really, thought that we would be able to visit her as the Empress, but no. I was wrong. Which is so dissapointing, I don't even want to play the game right now due to this, it just makes me think I've accomplished nothing and I am forced to go back and do sidequests with no changes.


EXACTLY the same way I was feeling!
 
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