[Mega SPOILERS] Immersion Destroyer.

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Is there any history in a video game where a developer really listened and gave what the majority of fans want ?

I think we are all dressed up but nowhere to go.

Other than the infamous ME3 ending, it would mostly happen during the development cycle, such as in the case of 'Early Access' games or they would carry feedback into a sequel. I think this is a tricky topic because it's virtually impossible to completely satisfy your entire player base and it also raises deeper questions about whether or not developers should stay true to their vision. They typically fine tune aspects of gameplay in patches regardless, but in terms of an overall story or another notable change that requires time and resources, it is ultimately up to them. Sometimes they come to the conclusion that their original ideas weren't quite what they wanted and provide 'enhanced editions' (a CDPR specialty) to patch up things they found lacking.

Either way, I think it's important to recognize that all our wants and wishes are just that, wants and wishes. While I myself would like to see certain things change (or become more than they currently are), I also respect a creator's vision. I guess what I'm saying is: I would rather CDPR come to the conclusion that there are certain things lacking on their own and have their own ideas on how to fix them while staying true to their vision rather than just giving in to the mob. Sure, they could reach this conclusion by becoming more aware of it by player feedback, but I think ultimately the desire for it needs to come from them as well as the solution, but maybe I'm alone in that opinion.

It's interesting because you rarely find the same level of outcry over books as you do in games/shows, which was why I found the recent 'changes' to ASOIAF (a.k.a Game of Thrones) so amusing. Book readers generally, at least from what I've seen, simply respect the vision and direction of the author. Sure, they might find it in certain instances to be 'bad' in terms of storytelling, but they would just leave it at that rather than saying 'you should have done this'. Anyway, I guess this is a whole separate debate, so I'll stop here.

Mmm, I'd say there's a better chance to see change with CDPR than most other developers when it comes to games of this size and complexity. No guarantee of course, because CDPR needs to decide if the effort and money they put into making tweaks to the already released game will be worth the return.

On one hand, the game's really successful and well received so any changes they make will be appreciated by many people. On the other, pretty much most people will already be extremely pleased with what we've gotten, so changes to the game might not have much impact. I'm sure they're eager to move onto Cyberpunk after taking things a bit slow for a while.

Really tough to call though and it literally all rests on what the devs want from their product.

Well said! :ok:

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure if you guys have seen this, but it seems very appropriate given this topic:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/42393-Politics-in-TW3/page15
http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/42393-Politics-in-TW3/page17
 
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Is there any history in a video game where a developer really listened and gave what the majority of fans want ?

I think we are all dressed up but nowhere to go.

Mmm, I'd say there's a better chance to see change with CDPR than most other developers when it comes to games of this size and complexity. No guarantee of course, because CDPR needs to decide if the effort and money they put into making tweaks to the already released game will be worth the return.

On one hand, the game's really successful and well received so any changes they make will be appreciated by many people. On the other, pretty much most people will already be extremely pleased with what we've gotten, so changes to the game might not have much impact. I'm sure they're eager to move onto Cyberpunk after taking things a bit slow for a while.

Really tough to call though and it literally all rests on what the devs want from their product.

I would rather CDPR come to the conclusion that there are certain things lacking on their own and have their own ideas on how to fix them while staying true to their vision rather than just giving in to the mob.

Also this. Could be that they've accomplished what they wanted to. Can't judge that until they send out a statement. Hopefully they'll do that, not to pander to fans but just to let everyone know how successful they felt they were about meeting their intentions. The dust needs to settle first though.
 
I would rather CDPR come to the conclusion that there are certain things lacking on their own and have their own ideas on how to fix them
Think the creators of the Baron Quest don't know how a player feels upon spawning in the empty Kaer Morhen, after one of the 3 endings and a quick slideshow?
If they see enough of the disappointed players, they will put certain parts of their bodies on the chairs and will start working on their dream ending. If not - then they successfully made it before E3. Just as planned. I guess.
 
I guess what I'm saying is: I would rather CDPR come to the conclusion that there are certain things lacking on their own and have their own ideas on how to fix them while staying true to their vision rather than just giving in to the mob. Sure, they could reach this conclusion by becoming more aware of it by player feedback, but I think ultimately the desire for it needs to come from them as well as the solution, but maybe I'm alone in that opinion.

I would like that also. In case that doesn't happen, here's what I CAN do about my wishes: I will not buy the expansions at all or at full price until they fix ACT 3, epilogue, free roam and character interactions. Maybe THEN they will understand that a dissatisfied fan means no more money and no more free publicity.

I mean, you can see clearly what CDPR wanted to do with the game. But then they cut corners. They sacrificed the fans in order to get the money from the other potential players. How did I reach this conclusion? Look how much they spent on developing the game and how much they spent on attracting new players(around 30 million each is what people say on the internet). They probably thought:"Hmm, how about spending 10 mil less on advertising and putting in development?!" and then they thought "**** that, making a superb game will not make us money, but a GOOD one with a lot of marketing will!"

So I feel that CDPR sacrificed their own vision and the fans in order to make more money. I don't blame them, BUT now I see what they are really like. I , as a customer and a fan, I too can play this money game.
 
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In case that doesn't happen, here's what I CAN do about my wishes: I will not buy the expansions at all or at full price until they fix ACT 3, epilogue, free roam and character interactions. Maybe THEN they will understand that a dissatisfied fan means no more money and no more free publicity.
Wish I could join you on your crusade. Unfortunately I already bought the season pass and the collectible edition. Good thing I didn't get to buy two additional copies on top of teh CE just to support the guys, as I planned initially...
 
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Is there any history in a video game where a developer really listened and gave what the majority of fans want ?

I think we are all dressed up but nowhere to go.




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Bethsada with Skyrim and fallout they really listen to ther fans

the added a lot of piad expansive based on the fans desire

And now just recently at e3 Bethesda announced that modding for Fallout 4 will be coming to the xbox one.The console gamers have been wanting to be able to mod for a long time and guess what it's going to happen
 
I'm sure others have said it but all this will do is result in "Game Over" events in the future. Honestly to me what good is seeing some characters in a room but nothing happens when you try to interact? Maybe they say "Great job Geralt we all know you did your best." or some other meaningless chatter. What does it get you?

I know even if Red did this people would gripe. Why because people gripe as it's in their nature. For me I'm glad I could run through the main quest and then do some side junk like missed "?" locations or old contracts.
 
If they see enough of the disappointed players, they will put certain parts of their bodies on the chairs and will start working on their dream ending. If not - then they successfully made it before E3. Just as planned. I guess.

So I feel that CDPR sacrificed their own vision and the fans in order to make more money. I don't blame them, BUT now I see what they are really like. I , as a customer and a fan, I too can play this money game.

Wish I could join you on your crusade. Unfortunately I already bought the season pass and the collectible edition. Good thing I didn't get to buy two additional copies on top of teh CE just to support the guys, as I planned initially...

Don't take this as me just being an apologist, but let's remember that the game has been out for less than a month. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions as of yet. As far as CDPR 'sacrificing their vision for money'...well, I could just be playing the part of the optimist (which is incredibly rare since I'm usually a die hard pessimist), but let's not forget that CDPR is not exactly a AAA company, they are a smaller studio and they created pretty much a AAA game. So I think the 'time and resources' argument here actually makes sense. Let's also remember that they felt Act 3 in the Witcher 2 was lacking and they tidied this up in a free enhanced edition.

I think it's honestly more of a case of them running out of time. They delayed the release of the Witcher 3 several times and I think they were doing it for optimization and bug hunting (which there still are, but are probably much less than there were). Not sure if you guys have ever worked on a project that requires funding and a specific time table, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. I hope they go for an EE or inject additional stuff into the expansions to tidy up other aspects of the game, but the game has been out a month...I would wait and see what happens before you guys brandish your pitchforks.
 
Calm down guys, like dzbrown said; the game has been out for less than a month. CDPR still working on Witcher 3, releasing patches and the free DLCs, and they will put a large team to work on Expansions.
 
Don't take this as me just being an apologist, but let's remember that the game has been out for less than a month. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions as of yet. As far as CDPR 'sacrificing their vision for money'...well, I could just be playing the part of the optimist (which is incredibly rare since I'm usually a die hard pessimist), but let's not forget that CDPR is not exactly a AAA company, they are a smaller studio and they created pretty much a AAA game. So I think the 'time and resources' argument here actually makes sense. Let's also remember that they felt Act 3 in the Witcher 2 was lacking and they tidied this up in a free enhanced edition.

I think it's honestly more of a case of them running out of time. They delayed the release of the Witcher 3 several times and I think they were doing it for optimization and bug hunting (which there still are, but are probably much less than there were). Not sure if you guys have ever worked on a project that requires funding and a specific time table, but it isn't as easy as it sounds. I hope they go for an EE or inject additional stuff into the expansions to tidy up other aspects of the game, but the game has been out a month...I would wait and see what happens before you guys brandish your pitchforks.
One can't argue with that. I sincerely hope we will see the world that is alive after the ending including all the characters (that survived) and we will be able to interact with them. Chatting with them, questing, seeing new Temeria... At least some part of it, with the shining of happiness Vernard Roshe...
Isn't it the dream to fight for, eh, CDPR?
Make it a paid DLC, not included in season pass, explain to the public that you've put a lot of work in it, that you didn't plan, but your fans... etc etc... Everyone will understand. And those who don't - we will explain it to them gladly. :)
Personally I can't play the game as it is now. I tried to play in the post-main-quest world, literally forcing myself - it was just NOT possible. I tried loading the older savegame yesterday, where I had yet to start the romance with triss or yennifer. Well, it was playable, but something interrupted me, and I really don't feel like I want to go back playing it. Please, finish your dream, so that it remains as such from the beginning to the end. Acknowledge it.
 
Calm down guys, like dzbrown said; the game has been out for less than a month. CDPR still working on Witcher 3, releasing patches and the free DLCs, and they will put a large team to work on Expansions.

What they working on is the expansions that probably are mostly done. I might be wrong, but I'm almost certain that the free dlcs is something that they've completed before release, they know exactly what they are and how many of them there are gonna be. Its just a minor selling point of the game, and a way to keep player's interest in the game, some more 'buzz' around the game. Every time they release a free dlc all the gaming sites will report on it and announce it, its pretty smart tbh.

The two quests that we got really feel like they've been cut from the main game so that they can become part of the free dlc thing. If you don't think they were ready, you are probably naive.
 
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CD Projekt RED - An update?

For any of the members of the team at CD Projekt RED following this thread, what is your stance on the current requests and ideas presented so far? Do they have the potential for future additions and changes to the game? Perhaps through Paid DLC or an EE?

CD Projekt RED. Could you offer feedback on the following suggestion?

Suggestion:

Offer players of a post main story game play environment, reflecting all of Geralt's actions performed up to the very end of the last act. Have minimal impact on the state of the world by altering only the main characters knowledge of the events that unfolded. This is not to be confused with implementing a playable game world reflecting any of the epilogue slideshow events.

My reasons for this suggestion:

This creates the feeling of a world that is still alive. It offers "sandbox" play for players who want to enjoy their last chance to role play Geralt. Many are feeling like the ability to continue playing after completing the main story is nothing more then reloading an old save with no reflection of the accomplishments they experienced. So, never returning to play the game after 100 hours or so invested is enough for them. A shame with such an amazing and rich game world you've created.

I have over 500+ hours played with The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim. However, altering the post completion of the main story game play with a version similar to my suggestion would have me invested in The Witcher 3 probably twice as much as I do Skyrim... Skyrim just doesn't come close to the experience you guys created with this game.

I feel a large fan base of your game would do the same as myself. Nothing comes close to the world that you guys created here. It seems a waste not to keep it alive with some post main game action. Players know the future of their choices with the epilogue slideshow, but there is no harm letting them play in a world that'll one day actively lead to those choices. Keep the additions subtle even. It'll be enough for players to flesh out the rest with REDkit or maybe by you guys in the future with DLC and paid expansions. I think it's worthwhile, especially this being the last chance to play as The White Wolf.

Thanks.
 
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Alright, we know the 2 future paid expansions will not be post-ending, but instead will just add two whole new side quests separate from the main story. A 'mistake' in my opinion.

I think by not making the expansions post-ending CDPR will really miss out on a lot of TW3 players that by then have completed the game (even multiple times). This is because I think players are not interested or motivated enough to buy expansions including side quests separate from the main story that happen before one of the endings they had.

Myself, I don't really feel the urge to buy them for this specific reason. And I'm not even thinking about TW3 expansions CDPR can release after these 2 that we know are both before the main story ending, even if they are great side quests. However if the expansions added to the main story after the ending, even if it was just a little bit, then I would buy them immediately!

Instead of Geralt ending up in a totally empty Kaer Morhen with none of his friends / loved ones around after you just went through hell and back in helping Ciri... CDPR could use some of their time and recourses to make the ending work for post-ending gameplay. There are definitely multiple ways in accomplishing this.

Common sense tells me if they are going this route it will result in many many more sales for all future TW3 expansions since beside new playable quests they (expansions) will also add as a huge bonus in bringing Geralt's journey and that of all the other main characters to a much more satisfying end.
 
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Basically this game has the potential to be the next "Skyrim" in terms of replay-ability and modding. I think it can even steal the attention from Skyrim. Skyrim 2011-2015 (currently) it is still alive because of it's open world, and non restrictive story game play post ending. Skyrim is a playground for mod implementation because of it.

The Witcher 3? 2015-2019/2020 potentially. Adding a version of these ideas, it'll be a juggernaut and have so much attention and momentum in the years to come. It's basically the chance for advertisement of the series and the company and any other projects they set out on.
 
I didn't read every previous thread so there may be a good argument for me somewhere, but I really hope CDPR will NOT spend any resource on creating a post-ending game world. The narrative ends, that's it. The entire post-ending open world is really just meant to let players do side quests we missed earlier.

Yes Skyrim has post-ending open world and that gives it replay value, but that's because player decisions matter preciously little in Skyrim, so its post-ending world does not need to look very different from the pre-ending one: blue coat guards in Solitude vs. red coat guards in Windhelm... one can easily do that. Witcher 3 is different. Player choices shape the entire fate of the world, so to make a post-ending world reflecting player choices is a huge undertaking, almost like making a Witcher 4.

The same resource could and should be used on some other much more urgent problems, such as the lack of closure in the ending slide show, the lack of closure for Geralt personally, and the rushed and underwhelming Act 3.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the people who want a post-ending open world ACTUALLY want a satisfying closure to so many things/characters that are not well described in the game's vanilla ending. I support with both hands and feet for an expanded epilogue and a post-ending cutscene, which I think provides closure better than post-ending open world.
 
I didn't read every previous thread so there may be a good argument for me somewhere, but I really hope CDPR will NOT spend any resource on creating a post-ending game world. The narrative ends, that's it. The entire post-ending open world is really just meant to let players do side quests we missed earlier.

Yes Skyrim has post-ending open world and that gives it replay value, but that's because player decisions matter preciously little in Skyrim, so its post-ending world does not need to look very different from the pre-ending one: blue coat guards in Solitude vs. red coat guards in Windhelm... one can easily do that. Witcher 3 is different. Player choices shape the entire fate of the world, so to make a post-ending world reflecting player choices is a huge undertaking, almost like making a Witcher 4.

The same resource could and should be used on some other much more urgent problems, such as the lack of closure in the ending slide show, the lack of closure for Geralt personally, and the rushed and underwhelming Act 3.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the people who want a post-ending open world ACTUALLY want a satisfying closure to so many things/characters that are not well described in the game's vanilla ending. I support with both hands and feet for an expanded epilogue and a post-ending cutscene, which I think provides closure better than post-ending open world.

I dont need another cutscen or slide show my wish would be for an post ending and i think if enough people want it the might do something and if they dont have resources well let them charge us money for it

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The vote poll shows what people want
 
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