Melee Combat Need IMPROVEMENT!

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I keep watching this and I just can not find much fault in neither animations nor hits. *shrug*

Mirrors Edge looks like a complete mess with the camera shaking and flailing around like cat trying to avoid a bath, and some of that is in Cyberpunk too, but it is much clearer for being slower. It looks like it is more comfortable to play.

Is this the same sort of thing as with how people complained about driving or shooting. That it's a bummer it didn't look like Forza and COD/Arma?

Well fuck me! Am I defending the game?
 
I mean, you compared it to Kingdom Come which afaik is a small studio with little backing and Bethesda RPGs [...]

Being an RPG should never mean that it's to the detriment of the combat or feel of the game.

I gave examples of other games in the genre it's in. Which, btw, RDR2 isn't. It's why i said the combat is about more than just "looks". As i said in that post you found me "comparing" them, being an RPG there's more things happening under the hood. Things that can be tweaked and changed that sets it appart and give it it's meat. Feel free to give me an example of a game that's actually in the same genre that you think does it better.

It is what it is, but we shouldn't be happy with "passable" or "adequate". The game will be fun, and I'm sure it will be great, but fans should always be critical of a product, otherwise it's just to our detriment and theirs.

Yes, well, like i said, feel free to give some examples of better melee systems in RPG's. I'll wait. Because RDR2 or GTA5 this game isn't.
 
Being an RPG should never mean that it's to the detriment of the combat or feel of the game.

Actually it totally could, because of RPG mechanics normally going against the player's skill (unless being at the exact same level as said player), which also means going against "feel" of the game.

But it's not the way C2077 have taken anyway.
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Well fuck me! Am I defending the game?
 
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Let's not devolve this into another perspective thread, please. One post deleted.

I think there's more to a combat system then the "cinematic" feel to it. That's just there to complement it not the other way around. Mechanically, it looks pretty solid. There are different moves like blocking, dodging, light/heavy attacks, punches, kicks, counterattacks. Now, for a stats driven combat system.. That's A LOT. And I' m willing to bet there are quite a few more we've not seen yet.

So the animations are a bit wonky.. big deal.. I see comparisons with Mirrors Edge and UFC.. OK, like I said, stats driven driven combat - that's quite different from a strictly move based combat system where there's considerably less variation in character damage output.

Games to compare this to are your first person RPG. Like Skyrim or Kingdom Come Deliverance.
About the comparisons that you mentioned from what I understand no one is comparing UFC with this game. Some people said "do you expect the game to have the melee like the UFC?" And the answer was: Of coursethat it doesn't have to be like UFC or close to that, it doesn't have to be perfect just better.

Now it seems clumsy NPCs seem to be out of reality and lost, there is no visual feedback on their faces after taking several punches definitely need an improvement.

PS:I'm still excited about the game but I want this part of the game to improve if possible
 
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Well fuck me! Am I defending the game?

You tasted of the blue pill! Or, wait, was it the red one? Whichever. Some pill that warps reality.


Also, to all:

Please remember to be respectful to other developers and development teams. Regardless of how you feel. These are all people, doing work just like you. CDPR prefers a friendly, polite atmosphere, as we are all a community here. Thanks.
 
Yes, well, like i said, feel free to give some examples of better melee systems in RPG's. I'll wait. Because RDR2 or GTA5 this game isn't.
Limiting to RPGs is simply asinine when there simply aren't many FPP rpgs to begin with, especially those with studios that can boast of being Europe's most valuable gaming company and the second largest in Europe.

So yes, I'll absolutely compare the likes of Cyberpunk to RDR2 which, again, is primarily a third person game with an optional first person camera. It also happened to release over two years prior to this game AND CDPR have claimed to have aspirations for such level of polish.

Again, why should anyone be satisfied with "passable" or "adequate". The PC animations aren't quite to RDR2's level, but they're fine. It's the other characters that needed work. My larger issue is moreso the need for animations to be tighter and certain aspects like lack of any feedback or situations like lack of blood with decapitations or similar situations.
 
Limiting to RPGs is simply asinine when there simply aren't many FPP rpgs to begin with, especially those with studios that can boast of being Europe's most valuable gaming company and the second largest in Europe.

Let me get this straight.. Comparing RPG's to RPG's is somehow asinine to you? OK, then you should work on your comparative analysis skills because with that kind of logic you can go pretty wild pretty fast. Next thing you'll be comparing the driving to Fortza Motorsport saying it's not right like that, because "biggest EU studio something something".


Again, why should anyone be satisfied with "passable" or "adequate". The PC animations aren't quite to RDR2's level, but they're fine. It's the other characters that needed work. My larger issue is moreso the need for animations to be tighter and certain aspects like lack of any feedback or situations like lack of blood with decapitations or similar situations.

There was plenty of feedback, not sure what you mean by that. As for the blood and marks, yes it could get a bit better in that regard. Never said it can't be improved but that's mostly nitpicking. Nothing particularly wrong with it except that's not what makes or breaks a combat system, not by far. Dosen't make it "passable" either.
 
Let me get this straight.. Comparing RPG's to RPG's is somehow asinine to you? OK, then you should work on your comparative analysis skills because with that kind of logic you can go pretty wild pretty fast. Next thing you'll be comparing the driving to Fortza Motorsport saying it's not right like that, because "biggest EU studio something something".

To be fair, given how flexible the term RPG gets tossed around it's hard to draw meaningful comparisons based solely on the label itself. Most game genre's have evolved to this point, really. Come to think of it, I run into issues here all the time when browsing around for new games.

I don't think the point was comparing RPG's to RPG's is asinine. The point was restricting the comparisons to other games labelled as RPG's is asinine.
 
To be fair, given how flexible the term RPG gets tossed around it's hard to draw meaningful comparisons based solely on the label itself. Most game genre's have evolved to this point, really. Come to think of it, I run into issues here all the time when browsing around for new games.

I don't think the point was comparing RPG's to RPG's is asinine. The point was restricting the comparisons to other games labelled as RPG's is asinine.


I'm not going to take this into a what is or isn't an RPG. For the purpose of this discussion anything that's officially labeled as an RPG is an RPG. That even extends the list considerably, and i've yet to see anyone offer an example of such a game with a combat system that's better, in any way, to what we've seen. I'm not saying they're not, maybe i'm not aware of them.

Comparing this to RDR2 makes no sense whatsoever. Think about what would happen if you have a street brawl with someone higher level than you.. You flying kick him, now, in RDR2 he would probalby tumble over, blood sparying from his nose.. something.. except in this case your flying kick only took 1% of his total HP pool. So, to beat him you'd have to tumble him around for half an hour.. The opposite: fighting someone lower level with the opposite happening one punch he's out cold. Combat done. There's an abstraction of reality there that need to be considered and accounted for.

That's just one simple example and something that would never occur in games like RDR 2 because there's no levels, no stats to tweak, no RPG mechanics. It works differently and they give it that gritty, realistic feeling to it because the game lends itself well to it. Not the case here. The moment melee becomes a viable option in an RPG it will be subjected to the same mechanics as the rest of the game, for better or worse. Different design philosophies, different focuses.
Wanting it to look the same but behave differently is what i'd define as asinine.
 
I'm not going to take this into a what is or isn't an RPG. For the purpose of this discussion anything that's officially labeled as an RPG is an RPG. That even extends the list considerably, and i've yet to see anyone offer an example of such a game with a combat system that's better, in any way, to what we've seen. I'm not saying they're not, maybe i'm not aware of them.

Good :). The comment wasn't intended to take it there.

Comparing this to RDR2 makes no sense whatsoever. Think about what would happen if you have a street brawl with someone higher level than you.. You flying kick him, now, in RDR2 he would probalby tumble over, blood sparying from his nose.. something.. except in this case your flying kick only took 1% of his total HP pool. So, to beat him you'd have to tumble him around for half an hour.. The opposite: fighting someone lower level with the opposite happening one punch he's out cold. Combat done. There's an abstraction of reality there that need to be considered and accounted for.

That's just one simple example and something that would never occur in games like RDR 2 because there's no levels, no stats to tweak, no RPG mechanics. It works differently and they give it that gritty, realistic feeling to it because the game lends itself well to it. Not the case here. The moment melee becomes a viable option in an RPG it will be subjected to the same mechanics as the rest of the game, for better or worse. Different design philosophies, different focuses.
Wanting it to look the same but behave differently is what i'd define as asinine.

That depends entirely on what aspect of it you're comparing. If it's the overall mechanics then, yeah, the comparison may not work. There you'd be comparing mechanics game to game. In which case you would need to account for the intricacies of the applicable games to make the comparison work. It's easy to get an apples to oranges sort of comparison there.

If we're talking animations in isolation why would it be an unreasonable comparison? Animations are animations. Game genre is less important here. Yeah, there might be differences across animations in different genres or games but they're still animations.

My personal opinion is the NPC animations in the twin boxer fight look sluggish, unnatural and don't make sense for a NPC with knowledge of boxing. In a game type where roles, character attributes, etc. are important I view this as a problem. Those boxers should behave like boxers. They shouldn't wildly throw punches and kicks while displaying absolutely zero understanding of balance, footwork, or how to protect themselves. An individual proficient at boxing, even a rudimentary understanding of it, would not behave this way.
 
Didn't the devs say your animations will also improve as you get more experienced with the weapon type? Like faster reloads, less aim swing and so on? It'd make sense that a novice would swing a sword without any grace like an iron bar compared to a master swordsman.
 
If we're talking animations in isolation why would it be an unreasonable comparison? Animations are animations. Game genre is less important here. Yeah, there might be differences across animations in different genres or games but they're still animations.

I did say there's no room for improvement. Personally I think it looks good but wanting it to look better is not a bad thing. Still, I think it's important we keep things into perspective, is all.
 
Maybe, if they made it slower and decidedly more methodical, it would look slightly "better".

If that was the general theme they were going with throughout the gameplay, sure. Maintaining a degree of consistency would make sense. If they're going with the norm found in ARPG's it would make more sense to make it fit and be consistent with that context. Well, to me it would. I won't try to speak for everyone.

And... this is the entire problem with it for me. It looks like typical ARPG mechanics. The hand to hand, armed melee, firearms, everything really. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with this by itself. If this is direction it's going to go it should do it well. High quality animations, well thought out timing/spacing, enough options to keep things interesting, etc. I don't feel it does do it well. Hence the concerns.
 
If that was the general theme they were going with throughout the gameplay, sure. Maintaining a degree of consistency would make sense.

I don't think it's too late to adjust the pacing yet. I'd strongly prefer they did, and at the same time adjusted the numbers that govern certain actions and activities.

And... this is the entire problem with it for me. It looks like typical ARPG mechanics. The hand to hand, armed melee, firearms, everything really. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with this by itself.

I do see it being wrong. The whole thing with character stats having an impact on the characters performance kinda comes counter to the intended fast pacing, because fast pacing implies quick and accurate controllability and skill from the player.

If a CDPR representative was reading this, I would strongly suggest spending some of the time from now to release on slowing the pace down a bit so that the systemic nuances and effects are clear and underlined and don't come as a "surprise" to the less initiated mainstream action player. That they don't have to "apologize" or "explain" why it all looks "stiff" or "clumsy"; that it is clear to anyone that this is how it is supposed to be working.
 
I'm not going to take this into a what is or isn't an RPG.

But if you want comparisons to be restricted to RPGs, then OBVIOUSLY you must define what an RPG is. Your logic seems to be running in pretty tight circles pretty fast. I suggest taking a step back and pondering for a moment what you have written so far.

Personally I consider such restrictions to be entirely artificial and best left out of the discussion.
 
then OBVIOUSLY you must define what an RPG is.

I don't, as i said i'd take comparisons to any such games that are officially labeled as RPG's, which as has been pointed out is a pretty diverse genre.

A lot of games have good combat but the type of combat can vary a lot between them.

Personally I consider such restrictions to be entirely artificial and best left out of the discussion.

Still, labels are important. They offers a succinct description of a product and what to expect from them. If people want to keep comparing apples and oranges then i can't stop them, but will most likely result in unfair comparisons which lead to nothing conclusive.
 
About this post I made:

I know the game is more focused on RPG(of course) but there is no excuse for not making other parts of the game good too
(driving, gunplay, unarmed combat(melee), sword (the katana).

Just because it is a RPG we need to conform ourselvs with parts of the game that definitely needs improvement? No!

Some say that unarmed combat looks bad because the player needs experience but that is no excuse for the gameplay we’ve seen.

Why do you people think was the reason to show the MELEE gameplay (twin scene) for the players?? For the players feedback to them and that is what we are doing so they can adjust in those months when the game was postponed. (my opinion)

Some people say it looks OK but the majority says looks BAD and need improvement.

No one here is saying the game needs to be perfect JUST BETTER.

PS: For those who don't know what are the improvement they could make go to my first post.

Thanks!
 
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