Again, it's exactly that... I never once seen any enormous downgrade from demos and trailers in any other game that I personally ever played.
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At least the graphic was significantly improved from the demo. We cannot complain about downgrade this time.
The level of fanboy-ism here is EXACTLY why disappointing releases like this continue to occur.
I've found parts of the game that I thought were adequately done. Well enough in fact to keep me playing and enjoying "those" parts of the game. There are others I find hugely disappointing, lackluster, and utterly devoid of depth.
When you add the gameplay issues to the vast sea of bugs and glitches, it reveals and amplifies the obvious points where you can literally tell content was unfinished or cut completely. Such as.....
Depth in character development is grossly inadequate. And a lot of that can be directly linked to the senseless perk, crafting, and gear upgrade systems. The story is nonsensical from the moment you finish the lifepath prologue. Because at that moment, nearly all of the RPG elements evaporate, as you're dropped straight into The Saga of Johnny Silverhand. There's no real RPG style "connection" to, of all things, the MAIN protagonist. You know, YOUR character. So by the time you get to the endgame, you don't know any more about your own backstory. But hey, they made DAMN SURE you'd know Johnny's. So it's all good, right?
Wrong.
Because a role playing game is all about building YOUR connection to YOUR character. Not some virtual NPC who's story gets shoved down your throat in the most blatantly linear fashion imaginable. <----- and RIGHT THERE is where it all went wrong. You can't disconnect the player from their character in this manner, and still call your game an RPG.
That said:
I don't think the Johnny Silverhand angle was "bad". I just think it SHOULDN'T have been the meat of the whole game. It would have been better served and acceptable as a "concurrent" story that you resolve as you play the story you SHOULD be playing.
YOUR story.
I've found parts of the game that I thought were adequately done. Well enough in fact to keep me playing and enjoying "those" parts of the game. There are others I find hugely disappointing, lackluster, and utterly devoid of depth.
When you add the gameplay issues to the vast sea of bugs and glitches, it reveals and amplifies the obvious points where you can literally tell content was unfinished or cut completely. Such as.....
Depth in character development is grossly inadequate. And a lot of that can be directly linked to the senseless perk, crafting, and gear upgrade systems. The story is nonsensical from the moment you finish the lifepath prologue. Because at that moment, nearly all of the RPG elements evaporate, as you're dropped straight into The Saga of Johnny Silverhand. There's no real RPG style "connection" to, of all things, the MAIN protagonist. You know, YOUR character. So by the time you get to the endgame, you don't know any more about your own backstory. But hey, they made DAMN SURE you'd know Johnny's. So it's all good, right?
Wrong.
Because a role playing game is all about building YOUR connection to YOUR character. Not some virtual NPC who's story gets shoved down your throat in the most blatantly linear fashion imaginable. <----- and RIGHT THERE is where it all went wrong. You can't disconnect the player from their character in this manner, and still call your game an RPG.
That said:
I don't think the Johnny Silverhand angle was "bad". I just think it SHOULDN'T have been the meat of the whole game. It would have been better served and acceptable as a "concurrent" story that you resolve as you play the story you SHOULD be playing.
YOUR story.
It is unethical because they never informed their customers (us) of the changes, and even with the most recent NC: Wire episodes, it would appear they sought to make things look like there was still much more to it.
That could be referred to as deceptive marketing, and yes, it is also outright (never mind borderline) illegal in a number of places.
I paid a good deal of money to be letdown; and IMHO that wasn't because I simply let my hopes get too high, it was because CDPR worked very hard to build my hopes up so I would spend some of my precious Christmas $$$ on the game. Unfortunately, I can only blind myself with Cognitive-Dissonance for so long, before I am forced to read the writing on the wall...
The funniest part about it, is CDPR keeps trying to pass it off as if 99% of the issues are due to last-gen bugs alone; and that only furthers suspicions that they are just playing damage-control in hopes of avoiding more litigation down the road.
It doesn't really matter how hard they try to control the narrative, the game is just too damaged to hide it.
I would advise anyone who feels similarly, to keep screenshots of these conversations; just in case CDPR decides it will try to mute such things outright.
Get ready for a LOOOOONG wait... I'm waiting 17 days now... If I wasn't a decent person and uninstalled when I did, I could have played the game thrice over by now...
So did you actually read what I wrote or more importantly what the poster I was replying to wrote?
Why can't you go into Gomorrah?
Why can't you gamble?
Why can't you go into stores that have OPEN signs?
This game needed another 2 years of development.
Why can't you gamble?
Why can't you go into stores that have OPEN signs?
This game needed another 2 years of development.
To sum it all up.
The Game part of this Video Game is missing. The story is okay. Enough to make teens and "normies" feel "rebellious" and "edgy".
Unfortunately I didn't follow the development of CP2077 that closely. Mostly ignored all of it because it seemed to be Hype Marketing BS. Turns out it was more than that. It was all a smoke screen. I felt the "sleaze" oozing out of my screen during the first NC Wire video. Since there wasn't an adult in sight I just turned it off immediately.
I have to admit. I didn't see it turning out this badly.
The Game part of this Video Game is missing. The story is okay. Enough to make teens and "normies" feel "rebellious" and "edgy".
Unfortunately I didn't follow the development of CP2077 that closely. Mostly ignored all of it because it seemed to be Hype Marketing BS. Turns out it was more than that. It was all a smoke screen. I felt the "sleaze" oozing out of my screen during the first NC Wire video. Since there wasn't an adult in sight I just turned it off immediately.
I have to admit. I didn't see it turning out this badly.
It's like the whole Anthem thing all over again, only worse. Granted, 2 years is a lot of time, so I wouldn't really hold the 2018 demo as some quality standard, albeit it's undeniable the game was degraded from what it could have been to what it is.
However while the 2018 demo is one thing, the NC Wire episodes and various interviews with CDPR prior to the launch (all 2020 stuff)? Now THAT'S borderline illegal. Dig through those and you'll find statements that are either strongly hinting at things being in the game (which aren't) or flat out talking about features that are nowhere to be found. Plenty of people made videos about this on YT, so I'll just link one:
Would I take CDPR to court over this as "false advertising"? No, not really. But I wouldn't trust anything they have to say from here on out. They "capitalized" their good reputation by feeding the public a bunch of BS marketing that everyone believed (because CDPR was perceived as the "good guy" amongst greedy developers)... I'd say their rep is pretty much gone after this disaster of a launch.
Right now they're doing the bare minimum - offering refunds. But even that doesn't seem to be working too well (I've requested a refund on GOG and it's been 17 days since I heard from them)... And while I trust CDPR will strive to fix the bugs and performance issues, I only "trust" them because they have a financial incentive to do so (getting the game back on the PS Store). Giving us the features they promised or hinted at that are missing? I wouldn't hold my breath.
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well yes, I not denying that many features in the demo are nowhere to be seen in the final game. As if what they showed us back then was kind of baked in stuff. I have watched the video in the post and it enforced more so this feeling. So I am upset like you with the end results.
I still think is more productive as a discussion to looking at the game we have now and bang CDPR to fix what there is and improve/build from that have them acknowledge that there is still work do, rather than bashing them on the fact they promised A-B-C-D and delivered B-C-F or looking at old stuff or they are fraudulent, liers, because of this.
It's basic knowledge that projects in development do change a lot of their scope for various reasons and maybe the old scope is scrapped for good reasons. One difference between CDPR and Bethesda or Rockstar for example is that the former, maybe with naïve eagerness, shared a lot of their ambitions along the years, while the latter, using savviness, didn't tell us anything until it was done. For instance we still don't know nothing about Starfield or GTA6 and probably will until 6 months before release.
CDPR even aspired with the same approach. In an interview years back, when commenting about the Fallout 4 announcement at E3 2015 (with a release date 5 months after), they said they wanted to do the same thing with their next game (it was CP2077 at that time their next big game). Unfortunately in 2018 they had to give up pressured by the industry/media/fans and what not to show something and they did with all the risks.
All I see here is clearly a case of mishandling the management of this big and ambitious project they had in mind, and in the recent marketing campaign we can only say they the crafted the necessary narrative that allowed them to sell. I am sorry but marketing is focused in maximizing sales. Sure they threaded the fine line there but go ahead claiming they are a fraudulent studio, etc.
At the end of the day this game is equiparable at their latest game (W3) only well above with the production level. So there is continuity, it's still the same old CDPR. I am not seeing a mobile game with transactions or a gatcha or an mmo or a twitch shooter like COD or a looter shooter ala Anthem.
Some people even claim that it not an RPG just because they removed the tag, while at the same time when they go to play the game they level up, customize gears, have to choice between ranged build, rifle build, sneak build whatever. Give me a break.
I don't know how to finish this post I'll admit too much rant and whining from my part as well
OK happy new year everybody.
It's not just the 2018 demo that seemed like a much better product than what we got - don't be fixated on that alone. There are developer statements (from interviews) and pre-release marketing materials hinting at what you can do in the game that's just not there.
As stated... would I take them to court over this? No, not really (investors are already doing that, but they have far more skin in this than I). Do I think CDPR is trustworthy after this display? Not in the slightest. And this is key.
If all you need to be an RPG is a level and some stats, then the Division is a full-fledged RPG. But it's not, it's just an action game with RPG mechanics. And CP77 is no different - it's a linear game with some superficial RPG mechanics slapped on top. To that end Witcher 3 was more of an RPG than CP77 is, despite having a PREMADE character - because you could actually play Geralt however you wanted, and there would have been consequences for your choices.
At the end of the day is still an RPG with all its intentions and faults, but I agree with you
Hey, happy new year to you too
I'm sorry but I have to throw my 2 cents at this statement, because I don't know when it became acceptable (Or apparently it did), to have something amazing shown, and with no previous warning remove said things and not expect backlash, or criticize people for feeling disappointed with it.
I'll make it clear that I didn't read this whole thread, I don't know what sort of messages or arguments you have replied to, but I'm on the team that is extremely disappointed this game seems to have "promised" features that were alluded to or even show even up till November this year.
At no point CDPR thought about making a full exploration video re-showing the gameplay putting emphasis on the stuff that was removed, at least giving an more honest view of how the game was. Instead it was actively chosen to keep promoting on top of the past promises.
I don't know how to some it seems so easy to think "Oh well, it is what it is, they don't deserve some form of criticizing for false advertisement". This sort of reaction isn't exclusive to CDPR too (Not claiming you said so), Anthem and NMS immediately come to mind, with the latter having done exactly what I believe CDPR should do with this game. If they can put pretty much all and go even further with their updates, why can't CDPR? To me they can and they should.
The GTA 6 comparison on the basis of projects that do go through change is unfair solemnly on the basis that Rockstar doesn't do gameplay trailers years leading up to the game's release only to not have most of the features shown present, they put a small trailer up, a banner here and there and done. They don't hype expectations, they don't dangle unreachable goals that won't be met, and I really don't like having to defend Rockstar like this due to how greedy Take-Two forced them to become with GTA:O.
It's hard and I believe very stupid to call CDPR a fradulent company since they didn't lie about making a game, didn't swindle us promising a product and deliver something completely different, but what did happen was the selling (Through the marketing that as you mentioned only focuses on maximizing sales) of something, and once delivered you realize that something is missing chunks or has the materials of the product in some spots replaced with a less durable material. How is that supposed to be acceptable?
Either way, best we can do now is wait and see what will CDPR do, I really hope for the roadmap in January since the devs do deserve their break, probably late January or even Feb. And I hope you don't take this a personal attack or something, I just say what you said and wanted to reply, no ill feelings or anything.
No, it isn't.
RPGs build a connection between the player and their avatar that leaves the player feeling as though they've actually built and accomplished something meaningful by the time they reach endgame.
And this game doesn't even come close. Because no matter what ending you get, you arrive at ONE ultimate reality: You've finished The Johnny Silverhand Chronicles and resolved HIS story at the expense of your own, regardless of your choice, and even your chosen life path played ZERO part in getting there. But it DOESN'T MATTER, because you never had a story to begin with.
Seriously. The incessant excuse-making for what this game turned into after they brought in Keanu Reeves is getting ridiculous. Because it's blatantly obvious that the entire direction of the game took a major turn for his role, to the extent that most of what came before is gone. And THAT'S the game most people were led to believe they were buying.
Exactly my point. Software needs legal regulation because companies like ea do this yearly and lie to their customers. Heck they out things right on the game case that never happened. THATS THE PROBLEM. Nobody tells these companies they cant do this shit so they get away with it. You saying its been haooening for 20 years is the point. Its bs and needs legal regulation like ANY OTHER PRODUCT.
Here is a collage of promises CD Project Red made with the ad campaign before launch and what they actually delivered:
We are allowed to feel betrayed about this game. I could write a full essay about this topic but FudgeMuppet really nicely told everything in this video.
This game is not a role-playing game. It's a charade, smoke and mirrors.
We are allowed to feel betrayed about this game. I could write a full essay about this topic but FudgeMuppet really nicely told everything in this video.
This game is not a role-playing game. It's a charade, smoke and mirrors.
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This video, I want all the things the CDPR narrator explicitly stated the game has.