Miles Tost on Cyberpunk 2077 Game Length and Development Process

[weirdwayne15]

I think this is something that is hard to avoid now days, when developers are so inclined to share development cycle with the community. Is not like we are back in mid 90's early 2000's that development were not on the eyes of the public much. Or rather say, they don't feel the inclination to share.

I'm actually glad the CDPR has been so open. It has gotten me really excited about the game. Now should the game not live up to that expectation I might change my mind, but we have been given plenty of good information and a lot of things have been kept secret which I believe has been a good balance. Thanks to that hype I have pursued every scrap of information which has been a great distraction for me.

 

[Kosciaty]

But ultimately, I don't think that it'll happen because of the IP problem, CDPR terms of using the Witcher series IP probably didn't envolve using it in Cyberpunk universe.

She's already is in CP77, there are magazines about games ( I think) and Ciri's on the cover.

And CDPR already owns both IPs in field of game development, so it shouldn't be a problem at all.

In my non-professional opinion, you shouldn't show things you can't guarantee will be in the final game.

So you shouldn't show almost anything until game turns gold. Game development process like Miles said is made of iterations. As for gameplay mechanics, it goes for whole time of development. Unless given mechanics is plot/genre depent, it's existance is put to question in every iteration.

Dualwielding has basically zero effect on game balance

What?!

It increase fire rate, which generates higher DPS, in RPG that's huge advantage. In fps it could be balance with lower accuracy ( like it's in CoD MW2 with akimbo perk or any newer Wolfenstein game). When you gave homing bullets, then it's OP as ****.

 

[Nemo1117]

So you shouldn't show almost anything until game turns gold. Game development process like Miles said is made of iterations. As for gameplay mechanics, it goes for whole time of development. Unless given mechanics is plot/genre depent, it's existance is put to question in every iteration.

They should only show things that are already a confirmed lock and won't be changed anymore.

At the very least they should provide more context to the stuff they show. If it's not guaranteed to be in the final build, they really need to stress that what the player is see is something that they are "trying out". Even then it's probably still a bad idea as players will still feel bad over "what could have been".

It's all about customer psychology.

To be frank, I don't understand why game developers promote their games so freaking early - this is doubly so for established developers who everyone is already keeping an eye on.

 

[Kosciaty]

They should only show things that are already a confirmed lock and won't be changed anymore.

At the very least they should provide more context to the stuff they show. If it's not guaranteed to be in the final build, they really need to stress that what the player is see is something that they are "trying out".

To be frank, I don't understand why game developers promote their games so freaking early - this is doubly so for established developers who everyone is already keeping an eye on.

That would mean almost no valuable information until game enter beta. As far as I recall, if there was any question about gameplay mechanics, devs added that they have that or don't ( or maybe), but then they stressed that it's not something that will reach final version for 100%. Hell, even in gameplays shown on various occasion, the narrator says, that it may things may change in the end.

As for promoting early, I totaly understand it. Game that comes out of the blue or has very short marketing campaign will reach not many people, thus generates less profits. I think CDPR shares much now so people will confront their expectations against content before release date. So their probable disapointment will be lesser than it would be, it there were not enough information.

 

[weirdwayne15]

That would mean almost no valuable information until game enter beta.

I wouldn't even bother with that argument. We understand that developers begin with "Grand" ideas of how the game will be. We understand that when such ideas are implemented they don't always work out either with the gameplay or it puts an undue burden on the rest of the project. So some things must get cut. If a company wants to share their ideas we can then have some input. Perhaps they see it is really loved and they'll decide to cut something else. Perhaps if it is a cherished idea they'll work to implement it in future games. There is no reason to demand the put blinders on everyone just because that'd make you happy. You can simply put blinders on yourself.

 

[Nadim0000]

It's a universe with auto aiming bullets.
Need more explanations than that?

So because of that Cyberpunk should become an unbalanced mess ? also keep in mind that Cyberpunk is an RPG not an FPS so balance is very important ,even they said that its one of the hardest things to do especially when the game is not encouraging you to play a certain playstyle.

think about it if you can dual wield every pistol and SMG all these weapons will suck unless they are dual wielded ,every pistol and smg will need to be redesigned and balanced around it.

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2020

What.

Dualwielding has basically zero effect on game balance since its still the same gun that is shooting that would be used singlehanded. See red dead redemption 2 which has dual wielding. The guns are just shooting one at a time. RDR2 goes step further and allows you to dualwield two DIFFERENT guns at the same time. Even a revolver and a sawed-off shotgun.

ps. In case it isn't clear: I am criticizing less the lack of dual-wielding and more their decision to show a dual-wielding Jackie in the promo material.

like i said earlier it does there are many games that has RPG stats like borderlands and destiny 2 that has no dual wielding for a good reason ,RDR 2 is an action adventure game Cyberpunk is an RPG so stats and balancing are much harder to do compared to RDR 2.

 

[Rinks361]

Good thing I skipped all demos, videos and previews for this game. Had no clue what is or isn't featured in the game. Did the same for The Witcher 2 and 3, as demos and preview trailers will often spoil story parts I'd rather explore or discover on my own.

I also find it funny people are expecting things not to change during alpha and beta showcases when, more often than not, there's always a disclaimer that usually says something along the lines of: "what's being seen is a work in progress and changes may be made before the final release".

Also, it could have been worse. Imagine being promised all types of things and being told that it's GUARANTEED to be in the game only to be dropped from existence with no warning in advance like all 3 Fable games and Watch Dogs 1 and 2 did.

 

[Neoyoshi-Art]

I love how i am reading about stuff that got left on the cutting-room-floor that i didn't even know about; i feel like a bad fan now. xD

But seriously, I'd be terrible at wall-running; like if it's Prince of Persia-style wall running like my brain in picturing; then I wouldn't want that in this game to begin with. It would be so frick'n disorienting. D:

*breathes through a paper bag*

 

[Nadim0000]

Good thing I skipped all demos, videos and previews for this game. Had no clue what is or isn't featured in the game. Did the same for The Witcher 2 and 3, as demos and preview trailers will often spoil story parts I'd rather explore or discover on my own.

I also find it funny people are expecting things not to change during alpha and beta showcases when, more often than not, there's always a disclaimer that usually says something along the lines of: "what's being seen is a work in progress and changes may be made before the final release".

Also, it could have been worse. Imagine being promised all types of things and being told that it's GUARANTEED to be in the game only to be dropped from existence with no warning in advance like all 3 Fable games and Watch Dogs 1 and 2 did.

i think the current game looks WAY better compared to its 2018 demo not only in terms of visuals but the gunplay is much better ,it feels like a remaster the missing features aren't all that big compared to what they have done right.

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

keep in mind that Cyberpunk is an RPG not an FPS so balance is very important

What?!
To my knowledge there is two kind of RPG: gamey ones (who then effectively try to be balanced), and hardcore loreful ones.
Cyberpunk 2020 is of the second type.

 

[northrop]

They should only show things that are already a confirmed lock and won't be changed anymore.

At the very least they should provide more context to the stuff they show. If it's not guaranteed to be in the final build, they really need to stress that what the player is see is something that they are "trying out". Even then it's probably still a bad idea as players will still feel bad over "what could have been".

It's all about customer psychology.

To be frank, I don't understand why game developers promote their games so freaking early - this is doubly so for established developers who everyone is already keeping an eye on.

Kinda like, when they show gameplay footage they put "Work in progress - does not represent the final look of the game" or when the narrative at 0:19 tells the viewer that what are they about to see is all subject to change?

Yeah... they did all that, they literally spelled it all out for people that nothing there is finalized and anything might be scrapped or changed. And guess what... people are still coming back with "but, but... in that one video it was there!!!!"

SMH

CDPR can emphasize all they want about features being tested... to many, development cycle is black magic, and games just happen. I'd love for all the naysayers to create their own game dev studio, and make a game with all the features they want... lol

 

[KakitaTatsumaru]

Kinda like, when they show gameplay footage they put "Work in progress - does not represent the final look of the game" or when the narrative at 0:19 tells the viewer that what are they about to see is all subject to change?

Yeah... they did all that, they literally spelled it all out for people that nothing there is finalized and anything might be scrapped or changed. And guess what... people are still coming back with "but, but... in that one video it was there!!!!"

SMH

CDPR can emphasize all they want about features being tested... to many, development cycle is black magic, and games just happen. I'd love for all the naysayers to create their own game dev studio, and make a game with all the features they want... lol

It's not like everything that disappeared came from that trailer.
Some of us follow the game since 2013, for reasons like knowing the tabletop RPG from which C2020 is inspired.

 

[fridgeband]

Its not about what they say, its about what they show.

To be fair I would honestly say it's both. I'm not worried about it thought. I'm very happy with what I know about Cyberpunk2077 right now.

It increase fire rate, which generates higher DPS, in RPG that's huge advantage. In fps it could be balance with lower accuracy ( like it's in CoD MW2 with akimbo perk or any newer Wolfenstein game). When you gave homing bullets, then it's OP as ****.

>Implying advantages are bad

They should only show things that are already a confirmed lock and won't be changed anymore.

At the very least they should provide more context to the stuff they show. If it's not guaranteed to be in the final build, they really need to stress that what the player is see is something that they are "trying out". Even then it's probably still a bad idea as players will still feel bad over "what could have been".

It's all about customer psychology.

To be frank, I don't understand why game developers promote their games so freaking early - this is doubly so for established developers who everyone is already keeping an eye on.

To be fair they did put "this is a work in progress, subject to change" but yea it does make me a little sad, but I'm over it at this point. Maybe DLC or updates, or Extremely good modding support and mod toolkit will make these things non-issues in the future.

So because of that Cyberpunk should become an unbalanced mess ? also keep in mind that Cyberpunk is an RPG not an FPS so balance is very important ,even they said that its one of the hardest things to do especially when the game is not encouraging you to play a certain playstyle.

think about it if you can dual wield every pistol and SMG all these weapons will suck unless they are dual wielded ,every pistol and smg will need to be redesigned and balanced around it.

Post automatically merged: Oct 27, 2020

like i said earlier it does there are many games that has RPG stats like borderlands and destiny 2 that has no dual wielding for a good reason ,RDR 2 is an action adventure game Cyberpunk is an RPG so stats and balancing are much harder to do compared to RDR 2.

It would be nice if it was just a setting in the menu.
Setting 1: Dual wielding On/Off
Setting 2: Keep original single wield weapon damage values the same even during dual wielding Keep-Original/Nerf-them

This way everyone wins.

 

[gogmeister777]

I really admire CDPR for their transparency throughout the whole development. It is quite unprecedented to have this level of information being shared before release of a video game.

I agree. I would rather have the transparency and temper my expectations based on the knowledge that some things will be changed and some things will be cut than have hardly any info at all.

I mean, they had those 'WORK IN PROGRESS - ALL IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE' type messages so they gave us fair warning.

We either accept we're being shown a fluid development process as they work through it or we accept not having info until it's all cast in stone and a few months from release. It's difficult to have it both ways when the devs are showing you stuff 2 years from release - especially when the game they're making is a new IP and significantly different to the games they've made in the past.

 

[northrop]

It increase fire rate, which generates higher DPS, in RPG that's huge advantage. In fps it could be balance with lower accuracy ( like it's in CoD MW2 with akimbo perk or any newer Wolfenstein game). When you gave homing bullets, then it's OP as ****.

It's a single player game... there will always be that one build that's OP. Look no further than the Witcher 3 with its alchemy builds.

It would be nice if it was just a setting in the menu.
Setting 1: Dual wielding On/Off
Setting 2: Keep original single wield weapon damage values the same even during dual wielding Keep-Original/Nerf-them

This way everyone wins.

Yeah... not like they have to create a completely separate set of animations for the second hand for every weapon in the game. Hey... it's a just a menu toggle On/Off, right?

 

[fridgeband]

Yeah... not like they have to create a completely separate set of animations for the second hand for every weapon in the game. Hey... it's a just a menu toggle On/Off, right?

That's not what I'm saying at all, nevermind the countless arguments in other past threads that showed that there were some more simple ways to attempt this (as well as many games in the past that did so successfully) In this specific thread, in that specific comment you quoted, I was only referring to damage value settings since balance is a concern for some of the people in the thread (I wanted to share a cool setting idea that would allow them to get the balance they want, while also allowing players like myself to just accept the advantage and damage bonus of having a truly second weapon while duel wielding, because lets face it that's the whole point of it... and have two 100% original damage value full power weapons and duel wield them without a damage reduction in the name of balance)

 

[northrop]

Relax... it was tongue in cheek comment, hence the smiley at the end (but I guess that didn't convey the message). Ehh... forget it... people are taking everything waaaay too seriously around here.

 

[reMARKable2142]

27 October 2020​

Dear Miles,

How are you holding up, choomba? I know you didn't post this here or that you won't read this, which is totally fine and I don't care for a second; after all: ain't nobody got time for dat.

I just want to thank you again for not releasing Cyberpunk 2077 on 3.5 inch floppy disks! That was a wise technical decision by yourself and the entire CDPR staff. Oh, and the sushi was great, btw. Super fresh!

Spoiler: Reference

(Twitter joke between myself and Miles.)

Before I go on, can I just say that your English is amazing? Warum kann mein Deutsch nicht gut genug sein wie dein Englisch?

Here are some of my calm and collected responses to your responses responding to people losing their minds on the Internet (as usual):

No one is forcing you to buy the game day one

That's not true - I'm forcing myself, lol. My gamer senses are on over hype mode. I haven't felt this way since Capcom announced Street Fighter II for SNES...

If you worry about the amount of content on our game, please don't.

That is kinda like saying: "Please believe me, I wouldn't lie to you." It makes me instantly think you are definitely lying...
But seriously, I was never worried, and still am not worried, about the amount of content. I was ready to pay full price for just the 2018 48 minute demo, lol.

But I can only keep saying what I have been saying in the past: you guys have seen nothing yet.

Oh shit, I bet! I'm scared. Should I close my eyes? At least, hold my hand, Miles.

It's less than a month now, soon all your questions will be answered (hopefully satisfyingly!)

Oh fuck yes! I do have a stack of questions that the game better answer, or else! ...or else, nothing.

I wish you and all your CDPR choombas all the best, now and in the future.


From one of your greatest fans,



Mark Able aka reMARKable2142, or
reMARKable2142 aka Mark Able

 

[fridgeband]

Relax... it was tongue in cheek comment, hence the smiley at the end (but I guess that didn't convey the message). Ehh... forget it... people are taking everything waaaay too seriously around here.

Don't worry about it, I'm just clarifying my intended message/information/communication just in case, because I believed a misunderstanding/miscommunication had occured.

 

[Nadim0000]

What?!
To my knowledge there is two kind of RPG: gamey ones (who then effectively try to be balanced), and hardcore loreful ones.
Cyberpunk 2020 is of the second type.

As one of the developers said "we aim to create an RPG that feels good to play" and regardless bad balancing is awful game design especially with a game that tries to encourage you to play with multiple styles