[MINOR GIG SPOILER] Watson Ripperdoc Charles Buck Should Be Reworked

+
Once again, this contains spoilers for the Gig: Last Login. Please stop reading now if you've not done this gig and care about the story.
_________________________________________________________________
Now with that out of the way, I must say that I'm really not a fan of how Charles Buck is handled in this game. He is, perhaps, most well-known for his potential 20% discount, which is covered in countless online guides. As it is revealed during the Last Login, Charles is getting his cyberware by harvesting it from people. If you confront him with this information, he will panic and offer you a discount, which you can accept or refuse. If you refuse, he will use a lame excuse to get up and leave the store, and then he will run for it. You can let him go or knock him out / kill him. Regardless of how you handle him, refusing his discount is the worst decision you can make gameplay-wise. His clinic will be forever closed and you will not only lose the potential discount, but also lose access to his exclusive Legendary Adrenaline Booster and Legendary Feedback Circuit. The game essentially forces you to side with a criminal and be rewarded, or be completely cut off from his exclusive legendary cyberware. The only way to acquire them afterwards is to use console commands.

Now I realise that some of you may wish to say something along the lines of "Tough luck, the game has consequences", so allow me to counter it straight away.
Every ripperdoc can install any cyberware that V owns, meaning that all these cybernetics are factory-manufactured products, that ripperdocs install, they are not some bespoke services that only a particular ripperdoc can perform. Therefore I do not think that ANY ripperdoc should have exclusive cyberware.

Some may say "Developers want you to explore the world and visit many stores. Think of these exclusive cybernetics as phones in an American network provider. Maybe each ripperdoc has a certain exclusivity contract with certain manufacturers."
Well okay, fair enough, however Charles harvests people, he does not acquire his supplies legitimately. That means that his victims acquired these cybernetics somewhere else legitimately. Let V visit those same ripperdocs that Charles' victims did. Out of all the ripperdocs, Charles is the one that really shouldn’t have any exclusive stock. His "thing" should be the potential discount. In addition he could rotate his stock every 24 hours, like regular vendors, it would even make sense story-wise, him being a harvester and all. He would still be appealing to players who wish to side with him and don’t mind his "supply method".

If the above still sounds unconvincing, or would be too much work to develop, then why can't we simply loot his supplies off his body or storage locker or something? He is storing those harvested supplies somewhere in his clinic.

In addition to that, nobody seems to care about Charles at all. It's as if V is his only customer. In my case, I knocked him out and he was laying on the floor of his shop, squirming for at least 6 in-game days. Nobody else visited his shop? Nobody found him, not Landlord, not other customers, not NCPD? He finally disappeared, but the store remains unlocked. No NPC takes over for him, NCPD does not close the shop as a crime scene, you can still enter his empty clinic. It just really feels like CDPR expected everyone to take him up on his offer and left the other option awkwardly unfinished.

Here are several suggestions on how Charles' clinic could be improved:
1) Give the Legendary Adrenaline Booster and Legendary Feedback Circuit to ANY other ripperdoc. Make Charles alternate his stock every 24 hours. This will make him even more unique, while still maintaining consequences for refusing to side with him, but without the severe penalty that "vigilante" V is currently being handed. It will also make his 20% discount more useful.

2) Charles sells generic cyberware only, no special legendaries. Upon discovering his dirty secret, he offers a random selection of legendary loot from all other vendors in the game, which changes every 24 hours due to the nature of his "trade". Eliminating him, would still close his shop and player would have to visit each shop individually for the exclusive stock. This would be a far more impactful choice, than the current one, which can be completely negated with the power of hindsight (Buy all his exclusive loot before starting the quest).

3) Keep everything as is, but move Legendary Adrenaline Booster and Legendary Feedback Circuit to any other ripperdoc upon Charles clinic's closure.

4) Let us loot Legendary Adrenaline Booster and Legendary Feedback Circuit from Charles or his store, similar to how Legendary Monowire and some other cyberware can be looted.

5) Create a new ripperdoc, perhaps as part of a DLC, that sells Legendary Adrenaline Booster and Legendary Feedback Circuit from "legitimate" sources.

6) Some combination of the above

I prefer options 1 and 2 personally. I realise that this is not a priority, compared to all the technical issues, but I still think this should be reworked at some point as part of a big update or a DLC.


Final thoughts: If I was a shady surgeon and my customer attempted to blackmail me, I'd "grant" them their discount, then the moment they went under for a surgery, I'd slit their throat. I'd save myself from being exposed, I would not have to offer any discounts and I'd harvest the blackmailer's cyberware too. I'd kill 3 birds with 1 stone, but alas, I'm not a writer of this quest. I'm not asking for the quest to be changed in this manner, it’s just that the idea of blackmailing my surgeon seemed a bit silly and dangerous.

_________________________________________________________________
This has now been reworked in 2.0. Cyberware is no longer exclusive, like it never should have been. Thank you, CDPR.
 
Last edited:
Tough luck. Actions have consequences.
Good one lol.

As I said in the original post. There is no way that this particular "consequence" makes sense, whether you look at it from a gameplay perspective, or story perspective. There is also a "Type-66" car version, which you can either get for free, depending on your choices in a mission, or buy it if you picked the "wrong" choice. Why doesn't that car get locked away forever?

If they really insist on making cyberware exclusive, they should not let other ripperdocs install each other's exclusive cyberware, which V already owns. If they can install each other's cyberware, then it makes no sense for Charles to have any exclusive stock, as his stock, by its very nature, is already not exclusive to him.
 
Last edited:
You could say similar things about Fingers.

Who you interact with during the main story, and depending on your actions can have his services lost to that playthrough.
 
I think the real issue here is that you can't murder vendors, since the best play is to get the discount, buy the cyberware, then shoot him in the face. Win, win, win.

But CDPR loves their forced "gray" morality tales, so don't expect this to change.
 
You could say similar things about Fingers.

Who you interact with during the main story, and depending on your actions can have his services lost to that playthrough.
I've just finished every single NCPD quest and am now focusing on Gigs, so I haven't quite reached this stage, Takemura is still waiting for me in that diner lol. I'm not sure what exactly may make you wish to punch Fingers, so I cannot comment on him yet.

My main issue with Charles is that, story-wise he is literally stealing his supplies. He could not possibly have any exclusivity deal with any corporation. Let us use legitimate suppliers of that cyberware, which his victims used. Charge us tripple if you wish, but don't cut them off entirely. It makes zero sense plot-wise.



I think the real issue here is that you can't murder vendors, since the best play is to get the discount, buy the cyberware, then shoot him in the face. Win, win, win.

But CDPR loves their forced "gray" morality tales, so don't expect this to change.
You could also potentially buy his exclusives before starting his gig, but in my case I have invested too many hours to reload. I did this gig when Jackie was still around lol.

Additionally I've seen a few people say on Reddit that they've had a bug where, if they left the basement via the original entry, rather than going through the door leading to Charles, he bugged out and refused to talk to them since. So again, I'm not a fan of cyberware exclusivity, especially for a thief.

It's like Stealing a couple of iPads from someone and then saying that no apple store can sell any news iPads any more.
 
Last edited:
You mean you have to pay attention to the narratives make choices, and live with the consequences in a rpg? How dare you cdpr, how dare you?! *sarcasm off*
 
Maybe this was some of these ideas that sounds great when the developers thought of it, but didn't became very popular.

Pawel Sasko: "Imagine how great it would be if the player could actually choose between doing the moraly right thing, but he had to pay a steep price for it: being capped out of the character's full power potential, sacrificing power to do a good action?"

Phillip Webber: "My God! That's an awesome idea! Such a controvertial decision! There are harvesters, of course there will be dirty ripperdocs! It's great"

Pawel Sasko: "Oh yeah, let's do it! Players will love it!"

Players: "What? Did I end up being punished because I did the right thing? What kind of treachery is this?"

In my first playthrough I killed him, but I never felt that I needed the legendary gear he sold.
 
Maybe this was some of these ideas that sounds great when the developers thought of it, but didn't became very popular.

<...>
Players: "What? Did I end up being punished because I did the right thing? What kind of treachery is this?"

In my first playthrough I killed him, but I never felt that I needed the legendary gear he sold.
I'm all up for consequences and for it being "expensive" to be a good guy. The problem is that this particular consequence makes no sense. For the sake of the argument, let's say Militech manufactures Feedback Circuits. It's not some Militech store that we've raided. It's a thief. A THIEF. Why can't I go directly to Militech, wave my cash around and buy it from them? Like I said, I get it, being a good guy is expensive. I've already lost the potential discount. Let the legitimate store charge me even more than Charles without his discount, but don't act like Charles was manufacturing this STOLEN good.

Also, did his whole harvested supply just disintegrate when I smacked him? Why can't I rob a thief? This is basically the most artificial and forced consequence in the game.

His gear is not useful for everyone, but is it very useful if you use tech weapons.
 
Last edited:
It's a plot device to motivate the player to be less polarized in terms of actions and consequences. Playing a Paladin character really doesn't make a lot of sense the way NC works. Everyone has a gray side, and a successful Merc doesn't turn down opportunities to save money or source new chrome. Let's face it, the only reason a player would turn down Charles is if they're playing with millions of eddies in the Bank. Then going around ripper doc shopping with little negative effects. Which is exactly why I shot Charles in the head when I emerged from the basement.
 
I'm all up for consequences and for it being "expensive" to be a good guy. The problem is that this particular consequence makes no sense. For the sake of the argument, let's say Militech manufactures Feedback Circuits. It's not some Militech store that we've raided. It's a thief. A THIEF. Why can't I go directly to Militech, wave my cash around and buy it from them? Like I said, I get it, being a good guy is expensive. I've already lost the potential discount. Let the legitimate store charge me even more than Charles without his discount, but don't act like Charles was manufacturing this STOLEN good.

Also, did his whole harvested supply just disintegrate when I smacked him? Why can't I rob a thief? This is basically the most artificial and forced consequence in the game.

His gear is not useful for everyone, but is it very useful if you use tech weapons.

Maybe Militech is very protective of their gear, that's why they won't sell it to the player, only to "premium costumers" - but nothing of that was actually showed. The guy that had that gear could be a Militech special client that got harvested but, for some reason, Militech never bothered to recover the gear or hunt Charles down (Regina asks for some laptop recovery). You could argument that Militech never knew about the harvested client.

But, yeah... what I said is a deep dive in plot speculation.

For me this kind of choice shouldn't exist because it's just a bad idea as a gameplay choice.

This kind of decision should have lore/quest consequences and not upgrade shady consequences that player never get to know until he make an online search.

It should be something like:

A) If you choose to spare Charles:
- He'll give you some missions to "find" some gear from those willing to make "donations", like patients or Militech, paying you for it, or even giving some cyberware to you. You have 20% discount in your upgrades.
- In the end you have the choice to invade some Militech depot, so you can rob their gear.
- This results in more scavengers in the map, with less people walking around the district. Scavengers are treated like allies, but ocasionally you can be hunted by Militech agents.

B) If you choose to kill Charles:
- Some River's old friend from the NCPD calls you, and offer some cleanup missions - hunting scavanger in their crib and saving some victims.
- They pay you in money or a Militech employee calls you and offers you an experimental unique legendary cyberware prototype.
- This results in less scavengers in the map, more people walking around, and police ocasionally greeting you, instead of being always triggered.
 
Pretty much what S.A. says.., there really is no objective reason to accept the turn out of the quest what so ever..,
(also the fact its pretty ridiculous to assume that only dark/grey can profit ~slightly off topic, but thats the partially annoying part of RL, people really cant see you can profit so much and gain massive backing from monetizing good actions~)
[also off topic, i find it also weird when Padre asks us to kill someone, and if we knock them out and place them in a car he is kinda anti-climatic about it.., seriously we could make the kill more symbolic by moving it else where and with a car going at speed..,]

in short.., if your going to go against our reasonable/logical take on this halfbaked decision in-game then say something logical against it..,(itll probably get us somewhere than nowhere like the 1st commenter..,)

that or the one who mentioned finngerstatt..,(fingers was more being professional/controlled about the situation since you need information ~sure you can force it out of them~ but that has a not really big loss on things.., which again is in direct contrast to this..,) with fingers you decide how to take the information(more akin to just flavour text and possible quest rewards) while Bucks clinic is more take the discount or get penalized.., (the only similarity between the two is how lackluster both can be.., fingers saving grace is that its attached to a questline(if you play a reasonable/professional V, and doesnt allign with a belief or support, but doesnt go against either of what fingers was about in that quest).., Buck simply goes against what Fingers had, you either align and get a pitance reward(for the kind of character your v is, or simply how you personally play), or dont align and get one less shop..,(get penalized of how you play, or your v gets penalized cause they couldnt careless for the little man..,)

(unfortunately Modding it, or Commanding doesnt cut it at times, since one is not as it was envisioned, and the other is a knockoff ducktape..,) these kinds of quests are best without gains or losses.., the gain is building your character..,
 
Necro, but the game has already set precedent for certain cyberware being denied to you based on your rep. It's possible you can only get these items from this ripperdoc with your degree of rep if you buy it from a blackmarket ripperdoc. IE: Charles.

Whereas while other avenues exist, you may never amass the reputation to convince any ripperdoc supplier to provide it.

On the subject of hazing solos (In this case V) you get "blackmailed" by, that seems like a very short-sighted decision given he has no idea who is backing you. Do you think Goro would not find out and not react to it? You're the only witness to his case. If you romanced Panam or Judy, they also would probably get revenge given their personalities.

On the subject of the Type 66, idgi. Do you think the price for the regular type 66 is not high? V has to pay a fortune for it the typical way. More than the spider bot from maelstrom, and more than for Rogue's help, COMBINED. It's not high from a gameplay perspective, but that's because V is out here ripping through the town.

On looting his shop for it, sure I guess. Realistically though that just sets a precedent that breaks the game. This isn't a simulator, it's an RPG. They don't let you mug ripperdocs because it would be silly if you could. That's just something you have to swallow with the premise, or maybe send CDPR a stern letter for not making a sim for you I guess.
 
The problem I have with the 'consequences of your action' philosophy here is that there really is no reason (beyond roleplaying the good guy) NOT to take the discount. It's not like there's a consequence if you choose to take him up on his offer. You're rewarded for sparing a scumbag but penalized if you don't. If it were a true 'consequences matter' type of decision there should be (different) repercussions and rewards offered for both choices.
 
The problem I have with the 'consequences of your action' philosophy here is that there really is no reason (beyond roleplaying the good guy) NOT to take the discount. It's not like there's a consequence if you choose to take him up on his offer. You're rewarded for sparing a scumbag but penalized if you don't. If it were a true 'consequences matter' type of decision there should be (different) repercussions and rewards offered for both choices.
But it is a story-rich role-playing game. The point is to get immersed in the world, not to "game the system". You are totally right. There is absolutely no reason not to take his deal gameplay-wise. That's why all the guides focus on the discount part.

THAT is my problem with this. Gameplay is so detached from the story in this case. If I do want to be somewhat of a goody-two-shoes, then I suffer. Now, why do I have a problem with this? Because Charles is not a manufacturer or a sole trader of some type of cyberware story-wise. His stock is harvested from other people. Those people got it from somewhere else. V being unable to acquire this elsewhere is a prime example of ludonarrative dissonance.

I am pro-consequence if the consequence makes sense. For example they could have handled it like so:
Charles sells generic cyberware only, no special legendaries. Upon discovering his dirty secret, he offers a random selection of legendary loot from all other vendors in the game, which changes every 24 hours due to the nature of his "trade". Eliminating him, would still close his shop and player would have to visit each shop individually for the exclusive stock. This would be a far more impactful choice, than the current one, which can be completely negated with the power of hindsight (Buy all his exclusive loot before starting the quest).
 
V is no better than Charles though possibly worse i've lost count of how may people V has killed who were just loitering on a street corner for a can of spunky monkey, a burrito and a tattered bit of clothing, So V has no Moral highground,
 
some of the parts sold are custom, rare, or corporate class, meaning that corporations usually only make them for themselves. There is tons. and tons of technology the average person doesn't have access to. Cyberpunk is not today's Amazon, where you can get anything you want. Note, you never get access to the type of cyberwars, or OS that corpo V has in the opening. Likewise, you never get anything like takemura's corpo cyberware. Why do you think some items require street cred? This represents the ripper is only willing to sell this type of merchandise to certain types of customers, money is secondary. Much of the cyberware V uses is not street legal. Why do you think people run as soon as you super jump, and cops aggro, people call you a cyberpsycho, and corpo radio warning corporate level implants. This is black market gear you are getting. Vik only has epics, partially because he refuses shady scav deals, and lost most of his shady corpo connects.

Each ripper has different connections, and most have exclusive items, you want a world that is convenient, where the player has easy access to whatever they desire, but thats clearly not the world that exists. No items are easily obtained, many clothes/cars/weapons only have a single source, some of which you can only find blueprints of.

So, if you really want his stolen parts, let him live, buy his stuff. Make a choice, he has access to rare and exclusive merchandise. V mentions this when he first sees his stuff. Sometimes you got to makea tough choice, and that decides what type of charachter you are.

You are rationalizing, it makes complete sense given the world that V only knows one dude who can get him access to certain things. You simply don't like that the world makes you have to choose between your morals and getting what you desire.
Post automatically merged:

V is no better than Charles though possibly worse i've lost count of how may people V has killed who were just loitering on a street corner for a can of spunky monkey, a burrito and a tattered bit of clothing, So V has no Moral highground,

I mean, thats only cause your universe's V is a cyber psycho. My V doesn't do that type of thing. My V even uses time loop abilities to undo accidental vehicular homicides.
Post automatically merged:

But it is a story-rich role-playing game. The point is to get immersed in the world, not to "game the system". You are totally right. There is absolutely no reason not to take his deal gameplay-wise. That's why all the guides focus on the discount part.

THAT is my problem with this. Gameplay is so detached from the story in this case. If I do want to be somewhat of a goody-two-shoes, then I suffer. Now, why do I have a problem with this? Because Charles is not a manufacturer or a sole trader of some type of cyberware story-wise. His stock is harvested from other people. Those people got it from somewhere else. V being unable to acquire this elsewhere is a prime example of ludonarrative dissonance.

I am pro-consequence if the consequence makes sense. For example they could have handled it like so:
Charles sells generic cyberware only, no special legendaries. Upon discovering his dirty secret, he offers a random selection of legendary loot from all other vendors in the game, which changes every 24 hours due to the nature of his "trade". Eliminating him, would still close his shop and player would have to visit each shop individually for the exclusive stock. This would be a far more impactful choice, than the current one, which can be completely negated with the power of hindsight (Buy all his exclusive loot before starting the quest).

In game, much of your access to items is based on connections. Just because "someone" has access to something doesn't mean V has access to it. Those are corporate grade cyberware. This comes up in lore repeatedly. The Sandra Dorset scene V can tell its not Sandra because the cyberware is not exclusive to corps. In streetkid midgame story, the whole hustle is to get their hands on rare cyberware. The lore of the world sets up many products as being exclusive/rare. You assumed that the rippers were selling over the counter standard fare, when they are infact offering special goods. Some of them mention this.
 
Last edited:
Looking at the consequences of this gig from an in game point of view my V knows that Mr. Buck is a lying sack of crap but also thinks "what can I get out of this situation", which seems to be the typical mind set of the average person in the game reality because of how long the corporations have effectively been in control.
 
Top Bottom