Misc. Gwent Guides to... [Beating Viy Decks]

[DRK3]

Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions.
I have to admit, i was in a rush to do the guide while the Viy fad is still on, and didnt even try the last 2 decks and some of the combos, and so i made quite a few serious mistakes but with your input i will correct them.

@InkognitoXI Sorry to answer you on a different thread than the one you replied to me, but i would rather concentrate anti-Viy strategies here.
Thanks, i hadnt thought about that combo, i considered Warrit, but opponent would just tutor it out immediately, but Isbel+Warrit should do the trick, unless like you said, its their oneiromancy or Haunt.

@Lokiat0r you're right, this is a huge mistake on my part, and it also applies to my SK Blaze of Glory combo that wont work. So basically killing Viy wont work, it needs to be stolen, banished or locked.

@OneWhoCravesSouls Thank you for reminding me: Haunt and Oneiromancy are more expensive than Viy (i really should have looked at a Viy list before i wrote this ) , so the Matta Huuri counters arent as guaranteed as i thought, i will refine my guide now.

@fil_faniki No, he was right, that part of my guide is dedicated to shutdown Viy, so ways to actually countering Viy directly and not just the consumes. Its a bit trickier but doable.

 

[Lokiat0r]

Edit: in NR's case you could also lock it with Margarita Laux-antille on board after Viy is summoned with the Unicorn.

That's a good counter as well. And will also work with several NG leaders or the Collar stratagem. There's no "Order: Lock" cards or abilities for the other factions, though.

 

[OneWhoCravesSouls]

That's a good counter as well. And will also work with several NG leaders or the Collar stratagem. There's no "Order: Lock" cards or abilities for the other factions, though.

Giving Viy doomed with Gaunter o Dimm on board after summoning him with the Unicorn would also be another option, but if more people should use those strategies the Viy players might end up running a few purify cards, Ihuarraquax after the Viy player has passed still seems the "safest" option (if the opponent should pass in round 1 or if you have last say in round 1 because of red coin) .

 

[Lokiat0r]

Giving Viy doomed with Gaunter o Dimm on board after summoning him with the Unicorn would also be another option, but if more people should use those strategies the Viy players might end up running a few purify cards, Ihuarraquax after the Viy player has passed still seems the "safest" option (if the opponent should pass in round 1 or if you have last say in round 1 because of red coin) .

I thought about Gaunter as well, but that would take at least three turns after the Viy player has passed (two if you've got an Order: Zeal card prepared). Unless you win the round while doing that, it's probably not going to salvage the match to go that deep into a card deficit to destroy Viy.

With Order: Lock cards or some NG leaders, you could play Ihuarraquax and then immediately lock Viy. That way you would maybe only go one card down into subsequent rounds if you're preparing to lock Viy as soon as they pass.

 

[OneWhoCravesSouls]

I thought about Gaunter as well, but that would take at least three turns after the Viy player has passed (two if you've got an Order: Zeal card prepared). Unless you win the round while doing that, it's probably not going to salvage the match to go that deep into a card deficit to destroy Viy.

With Order: Lock cards or some NG leaders, you could play Ihuarraquax and then immediately lock Viy. That way you would maybe only go one card down into subsequent rounds if you're preparing to lock Viy as soon as they pass.

Ah well I kind of confused Gaunter with Maraal and thought you could give another doomed with the order but you can only destroy a doomed unit with the order, so that doesn't really help.

But if the opponent already passed and you summon Viy with Ihuarraquax you don't need to do anything additionally because that way it enters the GY and won't come out again, if he haven't passed and you lock it with Margarita on board or NG Leaders there's still a chance that he has a purify available and instant destroys it with OH.

 

[Messyr]

Quite honestly, I did not read through all posts here, but wanted to share my 2 cents about the topic - so apologies if this has already been listed.
I'm using a NR deck, particularly a variant of the previous meta Revenant Control that has an almost guaranteed high winrate against Viy decks. So far my score is 7:1 vs Viy OH.

I'm running an Alzur variant to benefit from the great synergy from the spells that are anyway in the deck (Forbidden Magic, Oneiro and Corruption), but this is not the edge here. You generally use Alzur to push round one and try to force out a win (even sacrificing your Heatwave to kill the highest unit at the end of the round).

You definitely aim for a long R3, so just drypass R2 where possible.

R3, the general aim is to play:
1. Defender (ranged row)
2. Idarran (ranged row)
3. Archer + Mobilization Hero for the extra Idarran spawn
4. Reinforcements for the extra Idarran spawn

From this point on, you have 5 fully armed archers, and the game is literally won - you can shut down pretty much any consume engines hitting the board, no exceptions. Your goal is to force all the consumes to one, or two units max. As Viy decks don't run any row punish, they cannot do much to play around at this point. Vincent is there to help out where needed, and usually you should put a Revanant on the front row for the finishing blows.

You keep your Corruption / Heatwave to the final Viy spawns - and just obliterate them.

Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2020

Or, as an alternative, run any proper NG deck with Cahir - game over, autoconcede

 

[Lokiat0r]

But if the opponent already passed and you summon Viy with Ihuarraquax you don't need to do anything additionally because that way it enters the GY and won't come out again

You're completely right. I forgot that just plain old sending it to the graveyard solves the problem. There's no need to lock it unless you're planning to do that mid-round and hope they have no purifiers.

 

[DRK3]

I did consider combos with Ihuarraquax + Gaunter or Maraal but they do not work, so far a pre-emptive lock is the best option (Margarita, NG Collar on R1 or with Radeya, or Imprisonment or Imposter NG leader abilities)

@Messyr Thank you for the information, i did consider suggesting Cursed Realms from the old meta decks when writing the guide, but i wasnt sure it would be as effective as Shield Wall, but i can definitely see it working.

And of course, NG is by far the faction with most ways to counter Viy, they are all in the suggested deck and guide, including Cahir (i believe you can even Renew Cahir, as he's 9pt if im not mistaken), and many others.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2020

Just wanted to share this video of our boy Habbla, which used a SK deck that takes then Arnachad to a whole new level, with Artis and Battle Trance, in addition to the usual Defender and Sukrus.

On the first match he plays vs Viy and DESTROYS the opponent so much that he could have passed with 4 cards in hand in R3 and he would still would've won easily. So yeah, there's another strategy to annihilate Viy players and hopefully traumatize them enough to make them stop playing it forever.

 

[replayNinja]

Quite honestly, I did not read through all posts here, but wanted to share my 2 cents about the topic - so apologies if this has already been listed.
I'm using a NR deck, particularly a variant of the previous meta Revenant Control that has an almost guaranteed high winrate against Viy decks. So far my score is 7:1 vs Viy OH.

I'm running an Alzur variant to benefit from the great synergy from the spells that are anyway in the deck (Forbidden Magic, Oneiro and Corruption), but this is not the edge here. You generally use Alzur to push round one and try to force out a win (even sacrificing your Heatwave to kill the highest unit at the end of the round).

You definitely aim for a long R3, so just drypass R2 where possible.

R3, the general aim is to play:
1. Defender (ranged row)
2. Idarran (ranged row)
3. Archer + Mobilization Hero for the extra Idarran spawn
4. Reinforcements for the extra Idarran spawn

From this point on, you have 5 fully armed archers, and the game is literally won - you can shut down pretty much any consume engines hitting the board, no exceptions. Your goal is to force all the consumes to one, or two units max. As Viy decks don't run any row punish, they cannot do much to play around at this point. Vincent is there to help out where needed, and usually you should put a Revanant on the front row for the finishing blows.

You keep your Corruption / Heatwave to the final Viy spawns - and just obliterate them.

Post automatically merged: Dec 10, 2020

Or, as an alternative, run any proper NG deck with Cahir - game over, autoconcede

That's because there's rarely any need to counter it. Viy decks won't generate more points than NR left undisrupted. Viy decks don't run removal or control, that's the built in weakness. NG can can easily disrupt it and having no counters against SK is a nightmare. That's 3 factions that I've played myself using a Viy deck and lost. SY was just about even and I haven't played ST but I'm hearing good things about their movement decks. The obsession with Viy is misplaced, it's the ethereal effect once again

 

[rrc]

That's because there's rarely any need to counter it. Viy decks won't generate more points than NR left undisrupted. Viy decks don't run removal or control, that's the built in weakness. NG can can easily disrupt it and having no counters against SK is a nightmare. That's 3 factions that I've played myself using a Viy deck and lost. SY was just about even and I haven't played ST but I'm hearing good things about their movement decks. The obsession with Viy is misplaced, it's the ethereal effect once again

I wanted to try GT movement deck which concentrates on engines and little removal and it was getting eaten by Viy decks. Then I added CoC, Heatwave, and Ciaren (along with Brehen) and suddenly my deck can manage Viy decks. I had to add two more counters for Viy to be able to survive.

But the good thing about about Viy is, they have 0 control. They just allow Sentry, Cat Witcher to stay alive which is great! But wait till the Viy decks are optimized to pack a tall removal and some more control. But nonetheless, with a few extra tall punishes Viy decks fall flat. Otherwise it just stomps on you with no mercy.

 

[quintivarium]

But nonetheless, with a few extra tall punishes Viy decks fall flat. Otherwise it just stomps on you with no mercy.

The problem is that those extra tall punishes substantially weaken a deck in other matchups against wide or damages strategies — the balance between cards that defend against opponent strategies and cards that support your own strategy is lost. The game becomes entirely Rock Paper Scissors on matchups with little strategy involved.

 

[Jamborinio]

The problem is that those extra tall punishes substantially weaken a deck in other matchups against wide or damages strategies — the balance between cards that defend against opponent strategies and cards that support your own strategy is lost. The game becomes entirely Rock Paper Scissors on matchups with little strategy involved.

I think for me, this hits the nail on the head. Decks with this expansion have become very rock paper scissors. This deck absolutely beats x, y and z, but then absolutely crumbles to a, b and c.

The Sukrus Arnighad Artis deck is a prime example of this as is Viy.

So in essence Gwent has become more about the match up rather than the deck build or skill. Tournaments, like an Open or a Masters, would be hilarious right now.

 

[Messyr]

So in essence Gwent has become more about the match up rather than the deck build or skill.

This argument is probably as old as the very first TCGs. Literally nothing new - or should I say, surprising.
And I'd go one step further - I'd never play a card game where every single deck is generalised to the point where they are equally powerful in every aspect. That is chess, which is an excellent game, but not the topic right now.
However, as the very nature of balancing goes, fortunately it would be an entirely impossible state to reach - the level of similarity in those decks would come to a point where you'd find it hard to distinguish what faction / archetype you are playing. Players would revolt in masses.

Nah, the good old rock/paper/scissors concept is far less of a problem as many might see it - quite the opposite in my opinion. This contrast and tech difference between various sets keeps the game alive and forces you to adapt to unfavorable situations (like facing a favored deck).

Deckbuilding always was and still is a vital aspect in one's success - if we can call absolute netdecking deckbuilding, that is.
And of course skill matters - telling the opposite is just a major hyperbole.

Tournaments, like an Open or a Masters, would be hilarious right now.

Hardly. In tournament format players can prepare for every deck, plan their every card to provide a solid matchup to most situations. Totally different from ladder where you can indeed tech to 'A' just to get steamrolled by 'B'.

 

[Slizzl]

That's because there's rarely any need to counter it. Viy decks won't generate more points than NR left undisrupted. Viy decks don't run removal or control, that's the built in weakness. NG can can easily disrupt it and having no counters against SK is a nightmare. That's 3 factions that I've played myself using a Viy deck and lost. SY was just about even and I haven't played ST but I'm hearing good things about their movement decks. The obsession with Viy is misplaced, it's the ethereal effect once again

I was with you until the last sentence. Fruits Ethereal required no setup nor deckbuilding to gain absolutely insane value. It effectively turned the leader into an engine gaining 3 points per turn. People even ran Renew just to have their Ethereal back the next round, that's how strong it was.
But I guess if everyone somehow ran Auckes with Serrit in hand it was okay? That's how out of hand it got, people ran the Viper trio to deal with it. And even then the Fruits player could just purify or Renew it.
Either Fruits or Ethereal had to go. I'm glad they picked the latter.
Even Viy requires more thinking than that.

These two are in no way comparable.
I'm sorry but I just find it ridiculous when MO players keep defending old Ethereal like it was this innocent card the community randomly targeted.

 

[quintivarium]

Nah, the good old rock/paper/scissors concept is far less of a problem as many might see it - quite the opposite in my opinion. This contrast and tech difference between various sets keeps the game alive and forces you to adapt to unfavorable situations (like facing a favored deck).

I have no problems with factional identities, asymmetries, and unflavored matchups. I do have a problem with cards that single-handedly significantly narrow the number of playable archetypes and auto-win unless card-specific counter measures are included. There is a difference between unflavored matchups and hopeless matchups. From what I can tell, with pro players choosing three or four tall removal cards or frequently including order based locks with Ihuarraquax (neither of which is a natural measure to take), there is pretty good evidence that Viy matchups have gone from unflavored to unsinkable without extraordinary counters.

 

[Messyr]

I have no problems with factional identities, asymmetries, and unflavored matchups. I do have a problem with cards that single-handedly significantly narrow the number of playable archetypes and auto-win unless card-specific counter measures are included. There is a difference between unflavored matchups and hopeless matchups. From what I can tell, with pro players choosing three or four tall removal cards or frequently including order based locks with Ihuarraquax (neither of which is a natural measure to take), there is pretty good evidence that Viy matchups have gone from unflavored to unsinkable without extraordinary counters.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that Viy is dominant (or rather, was dominant in the past days, before people started to tech against it and use alternative deck types on ladder). Still, it is one of the more powerful options on standard.
Yes, it is extremely favored against some matchups, but quite literally, just after few days, the number of Viy beating decktypes quadrupled on ladder.
An uncontrolled SC movement can outvalue it in long R3, same goes for NR Griffins and Revenants, SK with Bear and Arnaghad destroys it totally. No idea about SY (they are nonexistant so far for me, I haven't played a single SY player on ranked this season). NG packs more than enough hard and soft removals with it's classic decktypes (probably not the new deck manipulation one) to beat Viy. In short, almost every faction has a solid mathcup - or straight up counter - against it.
I'm positive the hype and frustration about Viy decks will decline in the coming weeks.

 

[replayNinja]

I was with you until the last sentence. Fruits Ethereal required no setup nor deckbuilding to gain absolutely insane value. It effectively turned the leader into an engine gaining 3 points per turn. People even ran Renew just to have their Ethereal back the next round, that's how strong it was.
But I guess if everyone somehow ran Auckes with Serrit in hand it was okay? That's how out of hand it got, people ran the Viper trio to deal with it. And even then the Fruits player could just purify or Renew it.
Either Fruits or Ethereal had to go. I'm glad they picked the latter.
Even Viy requires more thinking than that.

These two are in no way comparable.
I'm sorry but I just find it ridiculous when MO players keep defending old Ethereal like it was this innocent card the community randomly targeted.

Seems you missed the point. I never liked ethereal...never have, I've said as much numerous times here because 1 card (a neutral card even) carrying an entire faction was just ridiculous. I tried it once and then removed it, I do my best to be objective which lets be honest you aren't very often yourself when it comes to NG. My comparison is in players knee jerk reaction to it and tunnel vision with the same reaction to Viy. People focused on Ethereal at the time while NR was quietly slaughtering players. Then when they nerfed Ethereal everyone was like "Ohhhhh" NR is so strong.

I tried Viy and now I've removed it because having zero control and removal is a loss in most cases. Additionally I have already suggested it should go first to the graveyard and then to the deck after 1 turn to allow for some interaction. So my point is while the focus is on Viy, it significantly weakens the deck it's in. In the list of busted cards this expansion it's probably only #4 and we're already seeing people come to that realization with Vypper and Idarran etc. I'm just waiting for the "Ohhhh" moment

 

[DRK3]

So, yesterday i posted a NG deck and guide to counter Viy completely, and i did it without trying it out first, but i was pretty confident it would work as intended.

Today i did manage to use it vs Viy, and sure enough, it beat him and punished him in so many ways:

He's actually the first Viy player who used Caranthir to get 2 Viys, so i guess that's a sign that Viys are being heavily targeted, makes sense, when one deck gets super popular the anti-meta deck will soon appear.

I did manage to win by a scratch, because i had good draws and had everything when i needed, and also because Viy players are super aggressive and are too quick to commit everything.

The win was even sweeter due to clearly being a Viy fan, by looking at his border.

 

[replayNinja]

So, yesterday i posted a NG deck and guide to counter Viy completely, and i did it without trying it out first, but i was pretty confident it would work as intended.

Today i did manage to use it vs Viy, and sure enough, it beat him and punished him in so many ways:

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He's actually the first Viy player who used Caranthir to get 2 Viys, so i guess that's a sign that Viys are being heavily targeted, makes sense, when one deck gets super popular the anti-meta deck will soon appear.

I did manage to win by a scratch, because i had good draws and had everything when i needed, and also because Viy players are super aggressive and are too quick to commit everything.

The win was even sweeter due to clearly being a Viy fan, by looking at his border.

Nah, double Viy was the first thing I tried because having one big target if you don't have last say is too risky. I used tatterwing to eat the copy. I went even further using Idarran+Caranthir+Viy...but lost too much consistency after which you're reliant on the luck of the draw. In the end I ended up using Viy sparingly rather than building a deck around it and eventually removed it in favor of a Koshchey+Caranthir+kikiqueen combo.

 

[Jollyrogerxberg]

Since I had really good results with my Ng-Viper-Tactic deck, I like to share it.

It has performed really well against Viy, messing up the whole deck. Kolgrim unanswered can net 25-30 points. Along the Mentors and Leo or Ivar you can make some nasty big plays in a short R3.
If you can kill a lot of their Consumes R1 befor order is usable, one tallpunish should be enough to catch up.

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and the other meme as promised. Althought after the first matches I played, more and more removal went in. Well, last season HW was a staple, why should it change when there are even more all-in decks walking around
Engine value is huge, if uncontrolled - just keep going until your passive points even outvalue viy.
in the mirror just use rebuke and a melee Sentry
Vipers can be countered by saving tutors to shuffle your deck at the right moment

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Join in The Witcher universe’s favorite card game! In GWENT, you clash with your friends in fast-paced duels that combine bluffing, on-the-fly decision making and careful deck construction.

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sorry for highjacking your thread with my own guides