Missing Any Sense of Urgency Regarding ANY Missions

[artao5]

First off, I freakin LOVE the game. You guys nailed the cyberpunk Night City atmosphere, and the story is cool and engaging.
The urgency of the story line tho. And all the missions. Well .....
V is dying, but can totally blow it off for as long as s/he wants, with no repurcussions. Allegedly this is a very time sensitive issue, but in actual gameplay that doesn't exist at all. No sense of urgency. No sense that it's even an important and major problem. For instance, the parade never happens until YOU decide to talk to Takemura and plan out the kidnapping. Even tho the parade is planned for a specific date and time. Time on that level just stops until the player sees fit to address such things.
Ditto with ALL the other missions.
I mean ... Take an NCPD call about a mugging. Once that mission spawns it just sits there forever until -- IF -- you decide to do it. Sooo ... The muggers and muggees just patiently sit there and wait until you come along? That makes absolutely NO sense.
And then there's tons of missions saying that they're "time sensitive." But they're not. Again, they just sit there until and IF you decide to do them.
There should be time limits on this stuff. Seriously. Especially the NCPD crimes. They should last maybe 5 minutes or so and then disappear. If you don't make it there in time, too bad. More will randomly spawn throughout gameplay.
.... Which brings me to randomly spawning some missions, like NCPD and side gigs. They shouldn't be available for very long and should randomly respawn all over the city. Night City IS, after all, riddled with crime.
And actual missions like "rescue this kidnapped person before X happens and the hostage is killed" should actually result in the hostage being killed if the player doesn't do the mission in a timely manner.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

In theory, I can agree. In reality, it's impossible
In most of games (if not all), quests only start when players are ready. "time sensitive" quests are quite rare. And above all in main questline and quests which are take in account in achievements.

 

[MerricB]

It's a fascinating area of design. How time-restricted can you make missions? And, for a finite, crafted game, there are limitations not found in a game that randomly (procedurally) creates them.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

A detail, also important
The idea is : "Players have the liberty to do the quest that they want in the order that they want"
If quests were "time sensitive", it's no longer the case. Players have to complete the quests in order and right away for avoiding to fail them.

 

[MerricB]

In addition, the CDPR designers have stated that they are not in favour of randomly created missions for Cyberpunk 2077.

My interpretation of this is that they want crafted experiences that mean something and that may have links to other factors in the world, rather than what is - effectively - busywork.

The one aspect of "things you can do" that feels more random are the flare-ups of gang warfare (previously depicted by a blue star on the map), with no unique content/lore associated with it.

Post automatically merged: Apr 28, 2022

But yes, when some of the missions are "attend this mugging", it feels odd that the situation is still the same several days later!

I know *why* this the case, but it doesn't always make sense in the game world.

Cheers,
Merric

 

[Shafir]

Yes, that seems strange sometimes. But not everything that would be realistic is good for game design.

Cyberpunk is not a simulation. It is a story-driven role-playing game. Simulation takes place here only to a limited extent.

I don't think it's a good idea to put players under constant pressure, although that would make sense with regard to Vs Relic.

 

[artao5]

How does one create a sense of urgency then? V is facing death-by-relic but the player can be totally non-chalant about that and entirely blow it off and do other stuff. And then never die due to the relic. That makes no sense.
I get that mainline missions would be a lot tougher to make time sensitive. Fair point. But not doing so makes them non-urgent. It makes the game "flat" for lack of a better word at the moment. Even ruins immersion. The relic bugging you now and then merely becomes a minor annoyance rather than a life-critical situation. Johnny becomes just a piggyback rider.
The player SHOULD be panicing about death-by-relic. Not wandering around the city and outside the city willy nilly doing whatever. There's GOT to be a way to push the player toward taking the relic situation SERIOUSLY.
NON mainline missions tho. Like NCPD and certain gigs. Those should totally be time sensitive and random. Those aren't "crafted experiences." Those are game world flavor as well as a way to earn some Eddies and gain some gear/supplies.
A player SHOULDN'T be able to complete all the missions in a single playthrough.

 

[Shafir]

Sure, I see your point. Regarding the question "what is more realistic" your objections are quite correct.

For me, however, they would not lead to more fun in the game, but rather annoying.

I already have enough tight schedules and deadlines in the office .

 

[cartlidge]

There's a few time limited quests, the one where you rescue the monk, I picked up the quest as I passed, intending to do it in a bit, when I came to do it I had failed it annoyingly.

People are used to collecting quests and then doing them together having been taught this behaviour by many games. (fallout, wow etc etc). I think the complaints on the forums would have been overwhelming if there had been a proper time limit.

That said the game does need a survival mode imo and that would be the place for more time limited quests along with other more immersive features

 

[strangerr3]

Most people have issues with rushing main storyline as they feel that they are running out of time and missing side content

I get your point but its just a game - you make it linear or more realistic or have to compromise.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

It's a fascinating area of design. How time-restricted can you make missions? And, for a finite, crafted game, there are limitations not found in a game that randomly (procedurally) creates them.

If you're smart at game design, either you don't press on urgency too much or you take away freedom from the player for the given amount of time you need to do that selected mission. You can play with game pacing.

Also, CDPR (obviously and fairly) take away freedom from the player the moment they go for a story driven game, for example you can't raid the arasaka tower from the get go, even though that's literally the only thing you can do to try to save V no matter what. And of course level gating quests is already another design choice that takes freedom away. So I wouldn't say that taking a little bit more of freedom away from the player would ruin the game. But, yes, I would definitely prefer a better writing when designing the game that took in account the suspension of disbelief and urgency. You can also make a story driven 20 hours game (i.e. Uncharted) without it being open world for the sake of it.

 

[Notserious80]

Most people have issues with rushing main storyline as they feel that they are running out of time and missing side content

Happend too me first time playtrough. Thought i would get a good ending if i did it fast since it feelt like that type of game. Second playtrough i noticed its all narritive and makes no differance in progression at all. Everything is dependant on quests.

Also now with gigs unlocking 2-3 at a time depending on progression it kinda lenghtens the game. Becomes a lot more traveling then doing them by distance.

Good news tho, the 6 months might become 60 years by this logic

 

[Ismaren]

The game mode I'd like to experiment with : starting the game at level 50 with all the attribute and perk points that go with it, as the character is already an accomplished solo, and rather than gaining levels over the course of the game, losing levels, having to choose which attribute to drop and which perk to lose as V's health deteriorates. Thus, you have to play with the need to finish the game before the character reaches level 0, because as you lose levels rather than gaining them, the game will become increasingly difficult, but it will be in keeping with the narrative. And the equipment and cybernetics could be used to compensate for the loss of V's physical and cognitive abilities.

I wish that CDPR or modders could create such a game mode which seems to me particularly interesting. Indeed, so many players have pointed out this ludo-narrative inconsistency, and such a game mode would fix it, however unusual and counter-intuitive it may seem.

 

[SigilFey]

First off, I freakin LOVE the game. You guys nailed the cyberpunk Night City atmosphere, and the story is cool and engaging.
The urgency of the story line tho. And all the missions. Well .....
V is dying, but can totally blow it off for as long as s/he wants, with no repurcussions. Allegedly this is a very time sensitive issue, but in actual gameplay that doesn't exist at all. No sense of urgency. No sense that it's even an important and major problem. For instance, the parade never happens until YOU decide to talk to Takemura and plan out the kidnapping. Even tho the parade is planned for a specific date and time. Time on that level just stops until the player sees fit to address such things.
Ditto with ALL the other missions.
I mean ... Take an NCPD call about a mugging. Once that mission spawns it just sits there forever until -- IF -- you decide to do it. Sooo ... The muggers and muggees just patiently sit there and wait until you come along? That makes absolutely NO sense.
And then there's tons of missions saying that they're "time sensitive." But they're not. Again, they just sit there until and IF you decide to do them.
There should be time limits on this stuff. Seriously. Especially the NCPD crimes. They should last maybe 5 minutes or so and then disappear. If you don't make it there in time, too bad. More will randomly spawn throughout gameplay.
.... Which brings me to randomly spawning some missions, like NCPD and side gigs. They shouldn't be available for very long and should randomly respawn all over the city. Night City IS, after all, riddled with crime.
And actual missions like "rescue this kidnapped person before X happens and the hostage is killed" should actually result in the hostage being killed if the player doesn't do the mission in a timely manner.

This is a tough one.

If a game makes side missions urgent, time-sensitive, or even worse, offers penalties for not completing them, then side missions can start to both steal the show and interrupt or deflect the feeling of progress.

If a game makes side missions optional and infinite, it can definitely start to feel contrived, like you argue.

In the end, I have always loved the way Morrowind handled this. The main story would not progress until the player reached a certain level. How they got to that level was completely up to them. This allowed for any range of activities that could be as lax or as urgent as the devs wanted. (They didn't really take much advantage of this, as most quests were the simple FedEx monkey quests that Bethsoft is renowned for, but there were a few interesting ones!) I'd love to see that sort of thing return in some future RPG, but have the side quests be taken just as seriously as the main quest.

 

[strangerr3]

One thing that CP2077 does quite bad and could be easily improved is time periods before certain stages of quest. On both main and side content. For example, it takes 30 minutes realtime to have Mr Hands call you back with Voodoo boys offer - probably not much more with a part between going to Arasaka warehouse and when parade begins. They could easily stretch it more so it feels more real - you can skip time anyway if youre inpacient.

On a sidequests I usually got a call from Racher literally 2 minutes after they leave restaurant asking me to come to studios as Joshua has breakdown. Theres a lot of that during a game but not always.

 

[SpookyFX]

The Relic issue was the only time sensitive aspect that I felt was too obviously a bluff. you will never actually die or change into Johnny no matter how many days you spend in the game.

They should have made the occurrence of the attacks progressively more frequent AND those attack's should debilitate you more and more where they would eventually be so debilitating that you are more likely to lose fights and die if they occurred in combat and also fail stealth because of the your pain noise and stumbling around.

Now you have a race against time that will not make you directly fail missions but it will sure feel like it.

 

[mateussw]

I felt that too. The game should have system like the original Fallout, but not a game over, instead we would become Silverhand with changes in quests

 

[DjSpyder]

This is one of those "Immersion problems" with almost all Open world RPGs. The fate of the world is at stake, and only you the hero can save us... but first go do some fetch quests and crafting, got to take out those optional enemies and bosses too, oh and let's not forget to customize our new House/lair/etc...

I just do my best to ignore that, if it's an open world game timelines just feel much less "Real" than in more linear games. having said that... with Cyberpunk 2077 specifically, they never give a "definitive time table" for how long it would take until the biochip takes over completely could be days weeks months but eventually it will win... so to help reconcile things in my own mind for RP purposes, If V is taking meds, and Johnny deciding to help maybe even he is able to fight against the chip a little(Not stop it just slow it subconsciously) that could be helping slow the progression.

That or its just game mechanics being what they are. Either way I get that it sort of undercuts the urgency but that comes with the territory of "Open worlds" and "Player Freedom"

 

[artao5]

Yeah.
I gusss the bits that bug me the most on this level are the general crimes that just sit there until you do something. Or don't. Muggers hangin out with their victims just chillin and havin a smoke until you get there. Stuff like that.
Again I would like to say I don't think a player SHOULD be able to complete all the missions in a single play through. The player should have to make choices about what to do and what to skip until another time.
Being able to take missions at your own pace and in your own order is great and all, until it's detrimental to the atmosphere and storyline. Which, IMO, is a problem with CP2077. Nothing really matters. There's no consequences for any choices it seems. They player CAN take their time and do most if not all the missions in a single playthrough. To me, that totally breaks immersion. It makes the game feel "flat." Just a bunch of stuff to do. None of it really matters. ....... To V, that is. Nothing the player does should really matter to the world as a whole. That's part of the atmosphere of despair of the original CP and the cyberpunk genre in general.
This game NAILS the atmosphere of the city and such. And in many gameplay aspects even. But overall it's just ..... a bunch of stuff to do if you want. Or don't. It doesn't matter. No consequences.

 

[-Nailes-]

I'm one of those people who thought the main quest was time sensitive tbh. If this was an elder scrolls game, I would know that I could travel and explore, but CP2077 was new so it was perfectly possible that V would die if I waited too long with the main questline. I did some exploring and played some of the sidemissions(especially before act 2 in Watson). After that I went through the main missions fairly quickly. I only had the corpo ending available when I already knew there were others and wondered whether it was because of choices I made or because I just hadnt found certain quests.
Its only then that I realized that there is no timetable at all and I can just wander around and explore the city, do the side content at my own pace.
I'm honestly glad that it isnt time restricted, because I enjoy exploring the city and doing various missions. It is weird that sometimes, a robbery just waits, but I never really think about it. Maybe it should pop up from time to time to reflect that its repeated robberies or something, instead of always being there. But I wouldnt want content to be with held from me just because of a time restriction. I'm not fond of it. I love open world games exactly because they generally lack those.