Modkit vs REDkit and the future of Witcher modding tools

[Nilhilion]

Modkit vs REDkit and the future of Witcher modding tools

First of all I'd like to thank CDPR for listening to us and releasing Modkit in a reasonable time-frame. You guys are the best, and it will surely boost sales and increase the longevity of the game. However, since we all know you're listening, and you've spoiled us to oblivion, I'd like to start this thread for all of the community to suggest if, and what more do we need added to the capabilities of the modding tools. We're all aware the schedule is tight and resources finite. Yet you've surprised us more then once, and if you'll somehow find the time and manpower to expand upon modkit it surely won't go unnoticed.

I'll start.

Level creator

Both Djinni, and REDKit had level creators, enabling to create full quest and area addons to the game. Since the story is the meat of the Witcher, user-created adventures would expand the game GREATLY. Just look at all of the fantastic story mods we got for both previous installments.

 

[bauzzer]

 

[berserker66666]

Currently, the "ModKit" sucks. Can't even call it a modkit since all it does is decompile all the assets of the game file and recompiles it after some tweaking of those files. And it has its limits. For example, you can't use the same type of script mod together or it won't work. (Like two mods which change the hud, it won't work or changing a horse texture in the world will affect every other horses). We need an actual REDKIT to do actual modding, not this "Modkit". CDPR's been touting us this feature for years in several different articles mentioning it'll come out soon after the game is out and they're working on it. So where is it?

 

[UhuruNUru]

@berserker66666 You know little of modding if you think it can't be done without a Mod KIt.
I makes it easier for sure, but take a look at Long War for XCOM or all the KotOR MOds including the restored content mod. All done without any support or Mod Kit.
Indeed due to the dedicated efforts of the Long War Team and all the great mods made for Long war by others, XCOM 2 will get a Mod Kit.

Having said that it can be done without a Mod KIt, It's certainly much easier with.
Actually despite the urging of many modders, to bring out the W3 ModKit ASAP after release. The official word given here in the main modding thread, in May was that CDPR wouldn't even start work on ithe Mod Kit until both expansions were done, that would have been about a year after release or even longer.

Then Bethesda announce Fallout 4, with their Mod Kit out at beginning of 2016, before the 2nd expansion.
The scenario, I and others predicted would have been that Witcher 3 Modding went the way of Witcher 2 amd never got going, except in Poland.

So thiswon't the finished Mod Kit, more like an rushed Alpha, to get something out ASAP, all of a sudden. It's a start and gives the chance to establish a community before the Fallout Flood, wipes it out. But as said here if they want the lots of the quest type mods. All that's needed is to give people the tools to make them.

 

[laod159]

CDPR just shot themselves in the foot. I just read Gamespot and Polygon articles about this situation and it doesn't look good for CDPR.

 

[Sainur]

Disappointing. All I have to add to this.

 

[dnnkeeper]

Can someone tell me if mod-tool is able to export rigged-skinned models or import custom skinned characters? Also I'm curious about animations. Can we mod them?

 

[HarrisonPudding]

Hey dnnkeeper, the skin models should be doable but I don't think these tools can do anything other than extract and reimport scripts and 2D art files (texture maps and the like). The manual suggested tools like Gimp for art editing, so not sure you could even get to the animation files.

 

[essenthy]

the problem is that modkit dosnt export everything, and most importantly no .env or .w2p or .csv files wich mean no weather/lighting/shadow/colorgrading/water/gfx editing ( aka what everyone was waiting for along with a proper map editor ) , the renderer in the script folder seems empty too ...

i dont mind how the modkit work, tedious or not i learned with time while modding other games wayyyy more complicated ways, so its kinda fine, but again personally i have no interest in unicorn or mafia geralt .. sure peoples will script some cool simple stuff, but thats it

i just hope that CDPR arnt waiting for someone to reverse engineer theire modkit so we can have full access, because its NOT going to happen, lots of modders are already out of the boat

if they really care about the modding community they should allow full extraction of all files along a proper editing tool

 

[berserker66666]

and most importantly no .env or .w2p or .csv files wich mean no weather/lighting/shadow/colorgrading/water/gfx editing

Well that sucks. I get the feeling CDPR did that on purpose so as to not piss of the console fanboys while we make the graphics way better if you know what I mean. But how about this, can we export these files through QuickBMS do the modding, then using the modkit to import those files back?

 

[tahirahmed]

I haven't tested it firsthand but I was going through the quick guide they provided and it says that modkit can extract meshes in Autodesk FBX format so mesh modding should be possible to some extent however more advanced stuff like animations, dialogues, world editing, lighting, environment etc is out of reach atm.

For example I don't think we can make a new village with this modkit or a castle like we did in Skyrim. We also cannot bring new monsters like a Bruxa or anything else. Making a new quest is not covered as well so this is pretty much a joke if I put it bluntly.

What is the point of converting your game from a linear/limited open world to a fully open world if you're not allowing the community to mod it properly. Seriously years old Skyrim start to feel superior now and that's unfortunate.

 

[rethla]

Not having Redkit out at launch is why W3 is slowly fading away instead of slowly building a skyrim style community and following. The modkit is CDPR bringing a knife to a gunfight, to little to late.

 

[berserker66666]

The modkit is CDPR bringing a knife to a gunfight, to little to late.

By the time Fallout 4 WITH it's CreationKit gets released (Unlike Witcher 3), modding Witcher 3 will be long forgotten. Too bad. Witcher 3 had huge modding potential with the help of REDKIT. Guess CDPR don't like their products to have extended lifespan like Skyrim with mods.

 

[essenthy]

Well that sucks. I get the feeling CDPR did that on purpose so as to not piss of the console fanboys while we make the graphics way better if you know what I mean. But how about this, can we export these files through QuickBMS do the modding, then using the modkit to import those files back?

no , env files are crypted same for w2p ( fx, zone trigger ect .. ) maybe they are making an enhanced edition wich will look better, dont know, at least we got something going with modkit, most of the other companies dont provide any modding tools/support, so while its not perfect its already there and i have high hopes for a full redkit

 

[Richiesname]

Okay, guys. As one of the people who has been yelling and screaming about needing modding tools for over a month now, the ONLY problem I see here is Marcin's comment that this is the only thing they're releasing.

Now, we were told that Redkit would be coming after the DLC was finished. Expansions counting as DLC was ambiguous.

What I'm thinking happened is that CDPR - the company who "listens to their fans" listened, but since Redkit wasn't in any position to be released they sort of threw us a bone with this. It's a very simple program and does about a third of what people were asking for. Let's hope that if Marcin is right and this is it, all we're getting, it will be updated with more features in the future.

Honestly, though, like everyone's saying - like people have been saying since this discussion started - the only competition is Fallout4, and its modding tools. So we're going to need those features fast.

 

[berserker66666]

Honestly, though, like everyone's saying - like people have been saying since this discussion started - the only competition is Fallout4, and its modding tools. So we're going to need those features fast.

THIS. What we don't need is another Witcher 2 mod scene where the REDKIT came out after 2 years and it was a ghost town. Granted Witcher 3 has way more fanbase and more potential modders but at some point, people will just lose interest in modding this game and move on. So CDPR needs to get all hands on deck to get REDKIT released ASAP.

 

[Mezziaz]

The one guy that can probably answer if the Redkit is still being worked on or not is @Benzenzimmern though I guess he is not allowed to say anything about it at this current point in time.

 

[mutaniac]

By the time Fallout 4 WITH it's CreationKit gets released (Unlike Witcher 3), modding Witcher 3 will be long forgotten. Too bad. Witcher 3 had huge modding potential with the help of REDKIT. Guess CDPR don't like their products to have extended lifespan like Skyrim with mods.

Do not exaggerate. Fallout 4 will not have GECK till early 2016. Creation Kit for Skyrim was a buggy mess when come out (3 months after game) and still have problems. Even when they give GECK to community, so what? Witcher modder not necessary a fallout modder and vice versa. Why Witcher 2 doesn't have more mods then? I don't think what problem was Skyrim. It was popularity. And now it has a lot more fans than in 2011. Does Skyrim affected somehow on Dragon Age? I don't think so. For now we can make more complex mods than DAI community(which doesn't have any support at all) and i'm grateful for this. Also i still think what we should wait words from actual developers team not a PR department.

 

[yokokorama]

Why Witcher 2 doesn't have more mods then?

Because Witcher 2 released in May 2011 and the Redkit released in May 2013.

Releasing a proper editor 2 years after the game's initial release is just begging for people not to care about it. Furthermore, at that time, Witcher 3 was slated to release in 2014 (prior to getting two delays that pushed it into 2015). No modder wants to spend their time creating mods that nobody will play.

It's like ordering some breadsticks / pizza, and the delivery guy forgets to bring your sauce dip and comes back 3 days later with it. Sure, you got your dip but it's no longer relevant; the guests are gone, as is the pizza you had intended to use the dip for. It's just kind of there, without purpose.

The pizza is Witcher 2, the guests / people eating the pizza are the modders, and the dip is the editor / Red Kit.

 

[berserker66666]

it's like ordering some breadsticks / pizza, and the delivery guy forgets to bring your sauce dip and comes back 3 days later with it. Sure, you got your dip but it's no longer relevant; the guests are gone, as is the pizza you had intended to use the dip for. It's just kind of there, without purpose.

The pizza is witcher 2, the guests / people eating the pizza are the modders, and the dip is the editor / red kit.

lol. Best. Example. Ever.