Monsters Archetype Buff Waiting Room

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So it seems the only viable MO deck is an Overwhelming Hunger mixmatch of gold deathwish units, the Yghern Ozzrel package, some Wild Hunt and of course some thrive, namely Bruxa and Endrega larvae. They literally have no archetype gameplay that's competitive enough.

Why?

The vast majority of their Bronzes are whack.

Now, imagine if:

Ice Giant
was something like 5 power - if Frost is present on the board, boost self by 1.

Vran was - whenever a unit is destroyed on your turn, or when an opponent destroys one of your units, boost self by 1. Alternatively, could simply make it 4 prov

Wild Hunt Hound was 4 prov.

Celaeno Harpy was 4 prov, or Consume two units (i.e. to help with tempo to proc all the DW you may have lying about, but then can backfire if you only have 1 and there are cards you don't want consumed). Or maybe 3 power and consume a unit - if the unit consumed is harpy egg, spawn another one.

Ice Troll was if you control the same or fewer. This would open it up a bit. Could make it start at 4 if this was too strong.

Cyclops was 5 power or 4 prov and not row locked

Maerolorn was 4 Prov

Archespore was deal 3 damage on DW

Werewolf was boost self by 1 whenever you play a beast.
 
To be fair, Wild Hunt Hound is the MO equivalent of NG's Master of Disguise, and that guy is 4 provision (not saying he needs to be more expensive xD he's fine as he is). :]
 
To be fair, Wild Hunt Hound is the MO equivalent of NG's Master of Disguise, and that guy is 4 provision (not saying he needs to be more expensive xD he's fine as he is). :]
There's no equivalence there. A lock stays on the board until the unit is purified or removed. It's a one time action that automatically boosts the unit and also benefits other cards like Dame, Vanhenar and Vattier while simultaneously crippling a units ability. Dominance is something you must consistently maintain and doesn't affect anything but the unit that's played that turn.

That said I think dominance should be removed as a condition for WH units. It's an old mechanic that was developed on the premise that MO would dominate tall play. There are 5 provision units in other factions that can easily reach 10pts or bring another unit to 10pts or higher now. The meta has changed and Frost/WH shouldn't be shackled to it.

@Jamborinio
Adding to your suggestion:

1. Eredin - Should add 1pt damage by being on the board. No dominance condition

2. Auberon (final stage) - create a bronze WH unit from your starting deck

3. Imlerith - Give him duel. If you control another WH unit, give zeal (Or if played between two WH units). Adjust power and provision accordingly

4. White frost should ignore armor while selected
 
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I like the idea of the extra damage on frost, but I would not add a third charge to it. Also, the extra damage should require dominance. I think Rain should also be changed to damage entire row by 1 instead of random units by 1. It becomes lite lacerate and has a max value of 9 for the SK leader.

What we need are leader abilities specially designed for archetype support. Like play X warfare card (X being preset not choice and not spawned by leader not drawn from deck.) Same with Raid, Disloyal special, crime, etc...

Lastly, though slightly off topic, I think the devs should drop 7 new cards per month instead of a 3rd expansion per year. 1 for each faction and 1 for neutral. Tie them to the new leader abilities and to future leaders you plan to release next year. 7 cards a month is reasonable in terms of testing and art. Keeps the meta a little more interesting month to month and makes new leaders a bit more appealing if they have good synergy.
Allowing rain to damage all units on a row would make SK unbelievably broken again.

As for frost. The extra damage isn't necessary but White Frost should ignore armor while selected imo. Add the extra charge as well. The additional damage should remain with Eredin but without the dominance condition.
 
- Have you played a good WF deck recently..?
50% of the round the field can be full of snow (having Ard Gaeth and the crew included, no red riders).
MOs have a good number of tall units to get dominance. I think you underestimate the value-power of the WF, one more charge would be fair imo, not the extra dmg though.

- I "main" MOs and with the deck i have atm, if you'd give me that extra 1 dmg as a passive, i guarntee you i would steam roll a lot of factions-archetypes, 2:0 matches (yes it makes that huge of a difference) .
I wouldn't mind such a boon tbh, i love MOs but i don't think it would be fair, fair against NR's Shield Wall...? sure, no doubt... ^^
...not against alot of others though.

- If you think that CDPR is that lazy what makes you think that they will change their "bad habbits" now..?:think:
Anyways, i kindah agree with ya... there needs to be an overall overhaul and not lazy add-removals of abilities people like to play. They said that they don't have a team full time on balancing, so i highly doubt that your proposal will be taken seriously, i wish it would .

Cheers :beer:
While I agree the extra damage is a no no, I don't believe having frost for 50% of the round is that impressive. Row stacking removes 50% of that damage as well not to mention shields and armor. The extra damage is a bit much but white frost should definitely ignore armor while it's your selected leader.
 
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While I agree the extra damage is a no no, I don't believe having frost for 50% of the round is that impressive. Row stacking removes 50% of that damage as well. The extra damage is a bit much but white frost should definitely ignore armor while it's your selected leader.

You forget that our ability also moves targets around ? ^^
That could and most of the times has devestated my opponents.
Bruisers can effectively manage row stacking.
Drowners could be also included for extra enemy row disruption and thrive value.
Another solution would be the thing you mentioned, instead of having the ability move your target around, give the WF ability the power to bypass armor, we can't have both imo tho. ^^

btw we should take this conversation to the MOs archetype thread. :LOL:
 
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You forget that our ability also moves targets around ? ^^
That could and most of the times has devestated my opponents.
Bruisers can effectively manage row stacking.
Drowners could be also included for extra enemy row disruption and thrive value.
Another solution would be the thing you mentioned, instead of having the ability move your target around, give the WF ability the power to bypass armor, we can't have both imo tho. ^^

btw we should take this conversation to the MOs archetype thread. :LOL:
I hear you but in my mind all the movement does is make white frost playable not competitive. I'd prefer they take the movement and ignore damage if that's the option given
 
There's no equivalence there. A lock stays on the board until the unit is purified or removed. It's a one time action that automatically boosts the unit and also benefits other cards like Dame, Vanhenar and Vattier while simultaneously crippling a units ability. Dominance is something you must consistently maintain and doesn't affect anything but the unit that's played that turn.

That said I think dominance should be removed as a condition for WH units. It's an old mechanic that was developed on the premise that MO would dominate tall play. There are 5 provision units in other factions that can easily reach 10pts or bring another unit to 10pts or higher now. The meta has changed and Frost/WH shouldn't be shackled to it.

@Jamborinio
Adding to your suggestion:

1. Eredin - Should add 1pt damage by being on the board. No dominance condition

2. Auberon (final stage) - create a bronze WH unit from your starting deck

3. Imlerith - Give him duel. If you control another WH unit, give zeal (Or if played between two WH units). Adjust power and provision accordingly

4. White frost should ignore armor while selected

Imlerith duel it's a pretty sexy idea, i like it.. you made good points overall mate, i agree .
 
Frankly, MO is just garbage.

Some factions are given tons of engines, tons of removal, and consistency to boot.

Mo aint rven the king of point slam anymore. CDPR truly is horendous at balance
 
Imlerith duel it's a pretty sexy idea, i like it.. you made good points overall mate, i agree .
I like the idea but at the same time it wouldnt be too different from NR now in that you could remove a unit with imlerith and next turn just outright destroy any unit on the board. But i wish imlerith would be more useful. Such an iconic character. I played witcher on death march and he was hands down the hardest boss in the game imo.
 
Frankly, MO is just garbage.

Some factions are given tons of engines, tons of removal, and consistency to boot.

Mo aint rven the king of point slam anymore. CDPR truly is horendous at balance

Frankly, you can give your ideas on how to improve the faction instead of telling us things we already know, no offence .
You're not completely wrong though.
Cheers.
 
I like the idea but at the same time it wouldnt be too different from NR now in that you could remove a unit with imlerith and next turn just outright destroy any unit on the board. But i wish imlerith would be more useful. Such an iconic character. I played witcher on death march and he was hands down the hardest boss in the game imo.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying unless you don't fully understand how the faction works. The issue with NR is the shield wall. Duel was there before the patch. NR was strong but duel wasn't broken before.

MO has no leader ability to shield Imlerith. So I'm not sure how your theory plays out, how does imlerith remove a unit and then next turn destroy any unit on the board? At most he'd have 4-5 pts as most duel units do. You can boost him with carapice sure but you could already do that with NR prior to shield wall, that's kind of their specialty and they can use formation which MO again doesn't have. Also There's no evolving card to reactivate the order ability. A special card might be able to do that but again, nothing new they already exist and will take several turns to set up unlike NR.

If I misinterpreted what you were saying let me know.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying unless you don't fully understand how the faction works. The issue with NR is the shield wall. Duel was there before the patch. NR was strong but duel wasn't broken before.

MO has no leader ability to shield Imlerith. So I'm not sure how your theory plays out, how does imlerith remove a unit and then next turn destroy any unit on the board? At most he'd have 4-5 pts as most duel units do. You can boost him with carapice sure but you could already do that with NR prior to shield wall, that's kind of their specialty and they can use formation which MO again doesn't have. Also There's no evolving card to reactivate the order ability. A special card might be able to do that but again, nothing new they already exist and will take several turns to set up unlike NR.

If I misinterpreted what you were saying let me know.
I like The idea off imlerith has duel.


But lets be honest, MO doesnt have any unit that buffs other units, so imlerith himself with duel is almost useless, unless He has a hyge base point, something like 8 or more
 
I like The idea off imlerith has duel.


But lets be honest, MO doesnt have any unit that buffs other units, so imlerith himself with duel is almost useless, unless He has a hyge base point, something like 8 or more

That's too much. There's Carapice leader for that or Parasite, there are artifacts that see no play currently but can be used and there's also Auberon who could boost him in its final form. Crones could boost him as well so there are a number of synergies here. Yes it would require more setup but that's called balance. NR being able to do it on a whim is why it's broken.
 
Monsters used to be cool. But now they're just row-manipulation annoyances. Scoiatael used to be the ones that are about moving units around among rows and stuff, guerrilla tactics = mobility. But now it's Monsters and it's just boring as fuck. Any card that is row locked is now useless vs MO since they got Wild Hunt Bruisers (plus Auberon can summon one of those too!), the new leader ability and Drowners to just move stuff around. Pretty lame if you ask me. Idk why CDPR keeps on making this game horrible. Is there a bonus payment to someone who invents a way to make something to be as lame as possible? I hope not but evidence shows otherwise.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying unless you don't fully understand how the faction works. The issue with NR is the shield wall. Duel was there before the patch. NR was strong but duel wasn't broken before.

MO has no leader ability to shield Imlerith. So I'm not sure how your theory plays out, how does imlerith remove a unit and then next turn destroy any unit on the board? At most he'd have 4-5 pts as most duel units do. You can boost him with carapice sure but you could already do that with NR prior to shield wall, that's kind of their specialty and they can use formation which MO again doesn't have. Also There's no evolving card to reactivate the order ability. A special card might be able to do that but again, nothing new they already exist and will take several turns to set up unlike NR.

If I misinterpreted what you were saying let me know.
Sorry i forgot to mention imleriths wrath which ist how you destroy the unit ofc because imlerith is on the board. Sure its not aus strong as nr but still
 
Sorry i forgot to mention imleriths wrath which ist how you destroy the unit ofc because imlerith is on the board. Sure its not aus strong as nr but still
Cool but I still don't see a problem. There's nothing preventing you from destroying him at 4 or 5pts there are several cards that can do that. Imleriths Wrath was around for a long time, how often have you encountered it? Even imlerith himself was barely played. All this to say it requires setup, has conditions that have to be met. NG can already remove two cards over two turns with no setup required and several of those add a body to the board where Wrath does not. Outside of that wrath is similar to playing heatwave the second turn which everyone can do except you'd actually have to have Imlerith for it to work with Wrath. That's not the case with NR so I don't really see the comparison
 
What do people think about the Deathwish archetype and cards like Rotfiend, Bridge Troll, Whispering Hillock and Ritual Sacrifice?

What could be done to make this type of deck more competitive?
 

DRK3

Forum veteran
What do people think about the Deathwish archetype and cards like Rotfiend, Bridge Troll, Whispering Hillock and Ritual Sacrifice?

What could be done to make this type of deck more competitive?

I really like deathwish, but the current problem are the weak bronzes that you mention.

Sidenote: I actually faced a DW player in ranked yesterday using all those cards, he was also using Keltullis and i thought i was gonna lose, but i was able to kill the dragon in 2 turns. Still felt bad, for he was memeing harder than i was.

Returning to on-topic: DW has some really strong golds - Ruehin and Dethlaff HV (they are more consume than DW, but the game officially doesnt make that distinction); Miruna and Manticore, but they can be played around by a good player or a bad matchup; and Plague Maiden (criminally underplayed, specially when row punishment is so rare outside SK, it has won me so many games)

But the bronzes? Bridge Troll makes your tall units go taller, so terrible. Rotfiend was kinda decent but lost so much value due to armor, shields and spawned units. Archespore is just terrible. Harpy egg is kinda decent, but plays for low tempo, and 3+5pts isnt that great anymore with the powercreep of the last 2 expansions. DW needs better bronzes. And that's why Ritual sacrifice isnt that good either - it lacks good targets.

Harpy Overload - 1st Try.jpg


Here's some nostalgia (screen from early '19, before Crimson Curse)... I really liked Harpy Eggs :ohstopit:
 
What do people think about the Deathwish archetype and cards like Rotfiend, Bridge Troll, Whispering Hillock and Ritual Sacrifice?

What could be done to make this type of deck more competitive?

- I kindah have to agree with @DRK3 here.
We have some great gold cards, mainly to be consumed but the bronze ones are pretty much outdated or don't make sense to play in the current meta.

- I love Miruna but i rarely get a good value return from the Manticore, the bridge troll i like cause when paired with a Barghest it basically guarantees you almost every time that you will have domination to use it's order.

I really like deathwish, but the current problem are the weak bronzes that you mention.

Sidenote: I actually faced a DW player in ranked yesterday using all those cards, he was also using Keltullis and i thought i was gonna lose, but i was able to kill the dragon in 2 turns. Still felt bad, for he was memeing harder than i was.

Returning to on-topic: DW has some really strong golds - Ruehin and Dethlaff HV (they are more consume than DW, but the game officially doesnt make that distinction); Miruna and Manticore, but they can be played around by a good player or a bad matchup; and Plague Maiden (criminally underplayed, specially when row punishment is so rare outside SK, it has won me so many games)

But the bronzes? Bridge Troll makes your tall units go taller, so terrible. Rotfiend was kinda decent but lost so much value due to armor, shields and spawned units. Archespore is just terrible. Harpy egg is kinda decent, but plays for low tempo, and 3+5pts isnt that great anymore with the powercreep of the last 2 expansions. DW needs better bronzes. And that's why Ritual sacrifice isnt that good either - it lacks good targets.

Here's some nostalgia (screen from early '19, before Crimson Curse)... I really liked Harpy Eggs :ohstopit:

Yum yum..! :coolstory:
A nice omelette you made there ! :ok:
 
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