More diverse relationship options.

[Sardukhar]

and the heartfelt smirk in the portrait)... :hrhr:

Ah, the smirk. Causer of more dead and unhappy NPCs in RPGs than anything short of pointing guns at me. Hmm..maybe including pointing guns at me.

Smirk at ME, will you?! Stab bang stab stab. Or at least, you know, steal steal steal.

Did you back Torment as well, Kofe? Very excited about that.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Did you back Torment as well, Kofe? Very excited about that.

I did, yes - and it shows a lot of promise for its design. I put more money there that I probably should have (since it is just a video game of unknown quality). I backed all these higher profile oldschool RPG's that were kickstarted back then (WL2, PoE, T:ToN, D:OS), and even took part in the Early Access of Might & Magic X: Legacy (which was also great oldschool dungeon crawler). And there are rumors that Obsidian will at some point put out another KS, so I'll probably be there too.

 

[Suhiira]

Perhaps Pillars of Eternity will do a better job, but I find the relationships between my character and any other NPC in any game, probably the shallowest part of my experience.

How dare you call Minsc shallow! He'll send Boo after you!

 

[Veleda.980]

I do like complex NPC interactions, mainly because they make an NPC seem real and not like minigames you have to figure out to get the reward.

Censorship opton? Is that even a thing? Censor yourself by not buying a game if you don't like the content.

 

[Sardukhar]

I do like complex NPC interactions, mainly because they make an NPC seem real and not like minigames you have to figure out to get the reward.

Censorship opton? Is that even a thing? Censor yourself by not buying a game if you don't like the content.

Thaaat's..not a great idea.

First, you'd have to play it - probably after buying it. Demos, reviews...not the same thing.

Second, that's akin to suggesting that if you don't like lethal combat, don't buy the game, instead of, you know, just adding difficulty levels.

I prefer more inclusive options. I'd like everyone to enjoy the game, if possible.

 

[Veleda.980]

If you don't know what you're getting from the EULA and are that sensitive, then you probably shouldn't play video games at all. Or consume any media.

What's next, pop-up "trigger warnings"?

 

[Garrison72]

I'm against censoring. Like Veleda said, that's what the EULA is for. Or if you want to avoid sexual content/nudity, don't initiate it in the game. Although I'd expect Night City to be full of scantily clad people, swearing and lots of nasty stuff in general. Censoring would be quite an undertaking.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

I prefer more inclusive options. I'd like everyone to enjoy the game, if possible.

doesn't cdpr pride themselves on making games that aren't for anyone?
i think that is a good thing tbh, if you make your game too inclusive you get the stuff that is currently flooding the AAA market

i mean if you don't want to see boobs or whatever there are hundreds of games you can play right?

 

[GuyNwah]

Or, not the EULA, but the ESRB, PEGI, or USK rating. These are strongly worded enough that they leave no kind of reasonable doubt about what kind of game you are getting or whether it has content that you may find offensive.

From The Witcher 2:
PEGI "The content of this game is suitable for persons aged 18 years and over only. It contains: Extreme violence - Violence towards defenceless people - Sexual violence - Strong language"
ESRB "Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Nudity, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs"
ACB (censored version) "Strong violence, sex scenes, nudity and coarse language"

Additional warnings and controls in game are strictly unnecessary and offensive to the artists who created the game to depict particular characters and situations well chosen to convey an artistic and gameplay impression satisfying to participants, not bowdlerized versions suitable for easily offended non-participants.

 

[Sardukhar]

Ye-ah. Well, again, I'd like a lot of people to play Cyberpunk 2077. I can't recall seeing any breasts or sexuality in any of the printed PnP material and...precious little if any swearing.

Still a great game. Still the game that inspired CDPR to make it into a CRPG. Still not really actually an automatic part of adult content - the swearing and sex, I mean.

So, no. I don't think a censorship option for swearing or sex or nudity is a bad idea, nor do I think it's giving into the masses, and really it absolutely is not an integral part of the PnP at all.

In other words, it's extra. Which is fine! But still extra.

I worry much more that they will mis-handle the Humanity rules or the Fixer/Street Deal Role than if there will be swearing or sex in Cyberpunk 2077. And I hope much more that they will have relationships equal to Witcher 1 and 2 than that there will be sex.

 

[Garrison72]

Ye-ah. Well, again, I'd like a lot of people to play Cyberpunk 2077. I can't recall seeing any breasts or sexuality in any of the printed PnP material and...precious little if any swearing.

Still a great game. Still the game that inspired CDPR to make it into a CRPG. Still not really actually an automatic part of adult content - the swearing and sex, I mean.

So, no. I don't think a censorship option for swearing or sex or nudity is a bad idea, nor do I think it's giving into the masses, and really it absolutely is not an integral part of the PnP at all.

In other words, it's extra. Which is fine! But still extra.

I worry much more that they will mis-handle the Humanity rules or the Fixer/Street Deal Role than if there will be swearing or sex in Cyberpunk 2077. And I hope much more that they will have relationships equal to Witcher 1 and 2 than that there will be sex.

But...censorship. You've played Witcher, you know there are a hundred things that could be sanitized in just walking around in the levels. Why do you think CDPR should be bothered to go through the trouble?

 

[Sardukhar]

But...censorship. You've played Witcher, you know there are a hundred things that could be sanitized in just walking around in the levels. Why do you think CDPR should be bothered to go through the trouble?

Degrees of censorship. There is -already- censorship in the Witcher -lots of it. Study human history and realise how many horrors could easily be found in Vizima. Easily. And aren't.

So the game is already censored. I'm pointing out a couple things - the big Cyberpunk classics, ( Blade Runner, Neuromancer, Cyberpunk 2020) feature little to no nudity, no explicit sex that I can think of, and little to no swearing. And they are all very adult stories and settings. So chopping sex and swearing will reduce the "adultness" of 2077..not at all.

The second thing I'm pointing out is that an options switch to make sex scenes a quick fade-out and to beep out or silence out or( for non-audible speech) to competely eliminate foul language isn't a big thing at all and, you know, it might actually look pretty good, concession-to-parents wise.

Yes, I want my kids to play 2077. Absolutely. Yes, I realise they aren't the target market. No, I'm not sure I want them to have digital oral sex with an NPC. I don't think it contributes much to the story and I don't consider it necessary.

Fun to watch, sure. Absolutely, if done well. Necessary, nope.

 

[Suhiira]

Actually check Cyberpunk 2020 pg. 34, Dress and Personal Style, Clothes, Die Roll 9.

"Nude"

 

[Frankensteel]

Goddamn, Maelcom. I give you 1/4 a SARDpoint. PENIS! PENIS EVERYWHERE.

Genius.

Mature relationships are...hard to write, @mkdewidar. And easy to botch. Bioware catches a -lot- of flack for their many attempts, many of them clumsy, but at least they try.

:troll: :huh:

NIARK NIARK *sarcastic laughs by anticipation*

... what the ... Bioware and romance role playing? ... Holy shit, this is the beginning of the end : first posts will soon turn bad about this, then somes will ask for homosexual relationship likes in KOTOR and everyone wil turn mad as before, insulting each others in a crazy troll contest and finally, the poor Sardukar the moderator will hang himself in the end, very bad topic ! ...

OK sardukar, i know, it was pure trolling but i can resist. Be Zen, take your pills, it's the classical "shit on the fan" RP topic. In RPG as in real life, SEX is the massive center of interest and an subject for arguments, good luck with that.

As an adult player, i find Witcher fine for mature players becauses this kind of "sword and sorcery" setting is more sexualy oriented than D§D and the "girls cards collection" was a bit sexist but fun.

Personnaly, i would prefer some kind of romance like in Max Payne 2, a "film noir" deadly romance full of bullets, betrayal and unsolved vendettas leading to hard choices and harder results: Blade runner is old fashioned thriller with a synthetic vamp, the characters are struggling together to survive in the big city and they find a tragic love affair in each others. The story of Max Payne and the dangerous Mona was a good one, so i think is a good direction.

PS : Don't forget the "sexy robot" babe, CP 77 can't be without one, it will be a shame otherwise

 

[Nars]

So the game is already censored. I'm pointing out a couple things - the big Cyberpunk classics, ( Blade Runner, Neuromancer, Cyberpunk 2020) feature little to no nudity, no explicit sex that I can think of, and little to no swearing. And they are all very adult stories and settings. So chopping sex and swearing will reduce the "adultness" of 2077..not at all.

Blade Runner had a chase scene after a half naked woman which was killed in shopping center, Neuromancer had quite detailed in description sex scene (anatomy wise) between Molly and Case, not to mention other classics like GITS.

Widely understood sex and cyberpunk always seems to bump into each other (especially in fashion). Swearing is important too, it's a way to make certain places and npcs more believable. I would be mad if someone would try to force censorship on those aspects.

Saying that, Sard is pro choice. I am too. I have nothing, absolutley and utterly nothing against fully optional censorship. You decide how you want to play the game. Period.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

Ye-ah. Well, again, I'd like a lot of people to play Cyberpunk 2077. I can't recall seeing any breasts or sexuality in any of the printed PnP material and...precious little if any swearing.

Still a great game. Still the game that inspired CDPR to make it into a CRPG. Still not really actually an automatic part of adult content - the swearing and sex, I mean.

the sexless printed versions of cyberpunk probably have more to do with the time period they were written in then the vision of the world, after all the people were a little bit more prude when it came to this stuff in the 80s and 90s

So, no. I don't think a censorship option for swearing or sex or nudity is a bad idea, nor do I think it's giving into the masses, and really it absolutely is not an integral part of the PnP at all.

but it is! just because it isn't spelled out loudly in the PnP doesn't mean it's not an integral part of cyberpunk fiction as a whole. cyberpunk worlds is sexualized as hell or as this guy puts it

"Cyberpunk is a literary movement in which the authors are working toward the goal of writing fiction that focuses on the actual or projected technological nature of society and that utilizes sexual imagery as a representation of the importance of sex in our culture. The cyberpunk authors use the technology and sex to add a realistic feel to their prose. (...)The subject of sex is used in cyberpunk prose because it is so pervasive in society. Sex is everywhere.(...)"

Source: http://project.cyberpunk.ru/idb/style_that_defines_cyberpunk.html

So the game is already censored. I'm pointing out a couple things - the big Cyberpunk classics, ( Blade Runner, Neuromancer, Cyberpunk 2020) feature little to no nudity, no explicit sex that I can think of, and little to no swearing.

just from the top of my head:

Molly and Case have sex on the second day they know each other and it's described in detail
Y.T. and Raven from Snow Crash have a complete chapter doing it (and she is a fifteen year old teen at that, would be an extrem taboo nowadays but it isn't a big deal in snow crash)
altered carbon, dude altered carbon is full of this stuff

and let's not even talk about ghost in the shell and sex in cyberpunk anime in general

 

[Sardukhar]

just from the top of my head:

Molly and Case have sex on the second day they know each other and it's described in detail
Y.T. and Raven from Snow Crash have a complete chapter doing it (and she is a fifteen year old teen at that, would be an extrem taboo nowadays but it isn't a big deal in snow crash)
altered carbon, dude altered carbon is full of this stuff

and let's not even talk about ghost in the shell and sex in cyberpunk anime in general

I forgot the Molly/Case sex scene. Just the one? In the whole book? Yeah, that's not much. And I think it was, a) not half as explicit as, say Witcher 2 or b) actually pretty artsy. Colours and crap. And if it had been left out, would the story have been ANY POORER for it? No. Ask Gibson - he has a blog.

Snow Crash...not my idea of a Cyberpunk classic, actually. Way too tongue in cheek, kind of lacks the Punk. I know many regard it as one, though. Altered Carbon does have lots, sure.

Now would you like me to list all the Cyberpunk fiction that DOESN'T have explicit sex? Or the percentage of sex-to-story in Gibson's works or Walter Jon Williams works, having just re-read Voice of The Whirlwind?

Because it's a lot of not-sex. Oh, sex is alluded to, since it's a story about humans, and occasionally you'll get an erotic sentence or even a paragraph. But that's it. Rudy Rucker, Bruce Sterling, Blade Runner, lots of Philip K Dick's stuff..can't remember if Shirley or Effinger have much if any sex, pretty obviously not story-significant..

Max Headroom, no, Terminator 1 and 2 has one semi-explicit scene for both movies, Alien and Aliens no, Mad Max, one brief flash of sex near the start, Road Warrior..I think no? do we count rape, I hope not....Total Recall, not really...Robocop no.

Those are just reading from the Cyberpunk 2020 what to read/watch list.

GitS has some sex, sure, although not the movie iirc, and the manga, well, you know Shirow has a "thing" about hot girls. No sex in Appleseed, though. Was there more than just the once scene in the GitS manga even? Just the one on the ship, right?


Point i'm making is, explicit/revealing sex is not integral to Cyberpunk. Nor is swearing, for that matter. They aren't part of the Cyber or the Punk. Yes, it's all very sex-y and sex is part of the equation, but the story is not served in any way by making it explicit. It's just not. And the above cyberpunk stories, all excellent, ( still not too sure why Alien and Aliens is on the list, really, but whatever), and few if any having any explicit sex, make that point.

Explicit sex is about titillating your audience - it's not a necessary part of cyberpunk. Fade-away scenes are fine.

 

[Decatonkeil]

GitS has some sex, sure, although not the movie iirc, and the manga, well, you know Shirow has a "thing" about hot girls. No sex in Appleseed, though. Was there more than just the once scene in the GitS manga even? Just the one on the ship, right?

Appleseed didn't technically have sex, but it had nudity, which I think it's kind of implied in the "sex in media" thing. There were many scenes whith Deunan in the showers with Hitomi or her female co-workers or receiving oily massages (so you know, there's at least friction). There were tits, asses and bushes. Would that be ok for CP2077? I think it would. Witcher 1 had bushes too: black and green bushes. You couldn't use the botany skills on those, though.

 

[Nars]

Lets not forget about another Japanese based cyberpunk Bible which is Eden it's an endless world. Lots of sex. I have nothing against optional censorship like I mentioned above, but let's not pretend that sex isn't integral part of genre, 'cause it is. Not always sex in sense of intercourse, but in fashion, ads etc.

 

[Garrison72]

Optional fade to black for sex scenes are fine and a simple solution. But I want Night City to feel like a dangerous, obnoxious place. I'd expect the nudity and sex aspect, the seedier side of big cities, would be amplified 60 years from now. I lived in central Philly for three years, and you would have to walk around blindfolded to miss that stuff. So I'm not on the same page as Sard when it comes to the overall feel of Cyberpunk I guess.