Both...involve...girls the rest of us would normally have no chance at?
I will tell you a story about treating sex maturely. I know a guy who's 40 or 50 years old. He has a wife and a couple of kids. He rarely plays anything. He heard about The Witcher (1) and started playing it. Firstly he was surprised that getting sex with women is "only" rewarded with cards. Secondly he had an affair in the millhouse, so he saw the cut-scene. After that he asked: "That's it?" to which I replayed: "That's it". He clearly expected something closer to a porn scene. I think this is good indication what male gamers think in terms of mature approach towards sex. They aren't there for talk and relationship apparently.
You mean in terms of creating relationship? Because in terms of having sex I am pretty sure you could rent one if you have that kind of money. It's possible even today. If you have a lot of money in your bank account and it shows girls will try to hook up with you, even if you're old and yucky. They'll endure and find themselves a lover on the side. Or kill you and get your money, allowing them to pursue their object(s) of desire. If you're handsome young man you're likely to get sex too.
Ahhh..I am that guy, or close enough. I have three kids, though. And your idea of what I think about in terms of a mature approach to sex is way, way off. I found the cards silly and the more porn-scene in W2 titillating but hardly my ideal videogame realization of a relationship.
I'd say your friend is a terrible indication, in fact, as I review my fellow +40 gamers, male. We're adults - we can get porn anywhere. Come on.
Is he? People laugh at shallow romantic relationships ending with a sex cut-scene (and females or males easily falling prey to gamers), but I'd say that my example proves there is more to this than people voice on boards where such threads surfice. It's apparently not a domain of young and stupid teenagers as we're lead to believe, meaning market for that stuff can be much larger than anticipated (with you and me being exceptions in general trend) and thus such model is continued. It's just my observation. It might not even be true, but note how this stuff shifted between W1 and W2. W2 has a porn-like cut-scene now. Or a few of them, if I recall correctly. Even though we can get porn anywhere.
I never once said that I advocate for shock value. I question shock value as... well, a value. I think it has a tendency to derail a lot of stories and break the classiness of a lot of works, because when everything reduces to shock value then it's all about upping the ante, seeing how far things can be taken just for shock value, without any substance or meaning. I have to admit, though, that shock value with things like the portrayal of raunchiness, grim and grit, and dark themes in a less than sensitive and subtle way may have played an important role in the maturing of these media: comic books, animation, videogames... It may have been a necessary stage. With the "let's just show some tits and hookers" out of the way, we can relax and have a more honest look at... tits and hookers XD.
What I mean is that there has to be a "better way to do things" a "better life" a want of a "more fair and just world" in the mind of "the cyberpunk". If not, where is this supposed dystopia? I mean, you're told you can enhance yourself with cybernetics, enlarge your penis with bioware, get some head from the types that would normally not prostitute themselves but now do, get high on drugs that we don't have yet, be able to carry guns while the police can't do much with their low dotation all this while living the free life of a badass riding a huge bike or from a comfortable position in a corp where you needn't care about the well being of your wageslaves, the third world and the third world in the first world, ecology... I mean, if it's supposed to represent such a cynical thinking that makes people think "hey, everybody steals, kills, gets high, misrespects, exploits... so I might aswell do it with no charge of conscience..." then it would be paradise for the kind of person, or character who wants success at all cost and no charge of conscience. It would be a "where do I sign?" kind of situation. And that's uncyberpunk to me personally. What's the goal of the stereotypical nomad in CP2020? Protecting the "family", the tribe, finding a haven for all of them (which may include children). Maybe some of our moral decissions could come in the shape of missions of "hooding" in which we work for the have nots out of a sense of justice... but in order for this to really work, it should be taxing, have little or not economic compensation (and even cost)... the reward would be either having a good reputation, maybe get a favour or two from them (which we shouldn't give for granted) or get to know the interesting backstory of someone.
Not so sure about that, man. I see a lot of virginality in female heroes in geek material... it's either virginality or girl who takes no bullshit from anyone while being totally emotionally detached. I mean, look at all the flack DC Comics got from longtime Teen Titans fans over the change they made to Starfire's affections and sexuality just to make it all more cynical and "mature". Would the average player be really more accepting of a female romance option that has dependants that are actually dependant and were conceived by the seed of another man, and are there as a reminder... than of a chick that they know is just a one night thing? I wonder.
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Dryads and sorceresses are SO outta your league, Sard. Cyborgs... time will tell.
About shock value... It's cyberpunk, you need to feel that it's somewhat degenerated.
Tho, no "shock" for the sakes of shock, but I'm all for something wide relationship wise, even crazy (why limiting yourself to one partner?)
Since they make the game and release it by themselves, I hope they'll not be "shy" and go forward in any direction they'll find interesting.
Tho, no "shock" for the sakes of shock, but I'm all for something wide relationship wise, even crazy (why limiting yourself to one partner?)
Since they make the game and release it by themselves, I hope they'll not be "shy" and go forward in any direction they'll find interesting.
Agree, porn scene a just no interesting at all, I don't even want to watch my character having sex, it's just dumb.
But having a lot of different escort club, some bdsm, braindance, etc... well just to show how "sex sells" in every way could be interesting
Woah. WOAH.
SOME of us only need 5 minutes to...watch... a video nowadays.
Age is not as kind to some as to others.
"15 to 30 minutes." Pffff.
I fear what I said may have been offensive to the Cyberpunk community. Apologies. Cyberpunk is a safe space for ideas and images.
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I hear your wife calls you "The Minute Man" for a reason ... ((Face it you walked into that one face first))
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Not offensive to most of us I assure you.
But I'll say again - no matter what you do, or don't do, you'll offend someone. If you're not offending the majority don't worry about it.
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What? I mean, it was a little raw, but hardly offensive. It's a viewpoint, one CDPR has espoused themselves. Cyberpunk isn't that safe a place for ideas and images - "safe" lacks Edge. Hopefully, we occasionally upset, pique and challenge people's ideas on what should be and what is. Probably we don't, but I CAN HOPE.
Within bounds allowed by Forum Law of course.
Hey! "Five Minute Man", THANK you very much. That's, like 300 seconds! 300 looong, tiring, sometimes boring seconds. Man. I try to think of baseball, but it's all full of balls!
And, yeah, that wasn't offensive to most of us on these boards. No one complained to me or reported it. Nor are they likely to - this IS Cyberpunk, after all.
Also a mod and a senior ( heh heh) board member are talking about said mod's sexual staying power right around you, so...yeah..
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Watch is junior!
I'll run your toes over with my wheel chair!
Perhaps they could have a porn scene in it.
Just not a vanilla porn scene.
Just to show how low the world can go.
Just not a vanilla porn scene.
Just to show how low the world can go.
If it follows the cyberpunk 2020 "rockerboy" supplement, it'll actually be pretty hardcore...
Torture porn, rape, snuff, etc... for the most "underground" braindance records.
And I figure there will be more than the casual "stripper clubs", like BDSM, Exotics-modified stippers (heh, why not?), etc...
Porn is just too "easy", there are so many ways to make people unconfortable, think about american psycho...
A crazy powermad corporate, getting a rabbit exotic escort, putting the braindance on, fucking her, tie her and dismember her, no need for porn, but yeah, that would be just awkward and shocking (and those kind of abuse exists anyway, girls in the street don't live long if they keep that life-style), this is the kind of "degenerated sexuality" I'm looking forward, porn isn't shocking anymore (except for a few soccermom...), you just need to go check your mail for stubbling upon 30 porn spam, sometimes some strange things like girls putting bottles "you-know-where", even teens watch porn nowaday (when before the net we had only some playboys...), just showing how the "yeah, porn is something normal" will drag the sexuality down.
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So recently I've been watching Strange Days for the first time. What a great movie. I'm quite fond for these kind of "cheaper" cyberpunk movies where maybe they can't afford to show you a fully realized cyberpunk world (with or without flying cars, cyborgs, cyberspace, monowire...) so they have to focus on one particular aspect of this world, the result being something that really feels like 20 minutes into the future (or 14 years into the past XD), other movies like this I can think of are maybe Code46 or in a sense The Warriors of Bronx (which was pretty entertaining until that ending which made no sense). I also was finally able to tell where the inspiration for that Jungle Cruise episode of GITS SAC came from which was very cool.
But what I liked the most about this movie was the character of Lenny Nero, which is the cyberpunk antihero done right: a pathetic effeminate CHARMING loser. He would pretty much be a not very good ex-cop turned fixer in CP2020 terms, and one who also gives a lot of importance to skills of personal grooming. The guy gives so much importance to matching his gaudy clothes. I also liked how the movie kinda defied some conceptions of masculinity, with him being the more effeminate an weak while Angela Bassett's character Mace was the badass who constantly saved his ass. I think it was also pretty clever the way in which they decided to portray the tokens of affection from Macey to Nero which also seemed quite unconventional and with roles reversed.
I don't know, I want something like that in CP2077. If I want to make a wimpy effeminate charming loser of a fixer he should be able to get a lady with shoulders like hers even if it's out of pity for the guy.
But what I liked the most about this movie was the character of Lenny Nero, which is the cyberpunk antihero done right: a pathetic effeminate CHARMING loser. He would pretty much be a not very good ex-cop turned fixer in CP2020 terms, and one who also gives a lot of importance to skills of personal grooming. The guy gives so much importance to matching his gaudy clothes. I also liked how the movie kinda defied some conceptions of masculinity, with him being the more effeminate an weak while Angela Bassett's character Mace was the badass who constantly saved his ass. I think it was also pretty clever the way in which they decided to portray the tokens of affection from Macey to Nero which also seemed quite unconventional and with roles reversed.
I don't know, I want something like that in CP2077. If I want to make a wimpy effeminate charming loser of a fixer he should be able to get a lady with shoulders like hers even if it's out of pity for the guy.
I don't know if I even wan't love based relationships in the game I just want a good story that has more then one or 2 paths, relationships or love in games sometimes just feels out of place. I hope they make that sort of thing complety optional
Obviously there are limits on what can be done inside of a realistic budget and timeframe, but it would be very nice if the game includes many different kinds of relationships with NPCs all the way from violent psychotic hate to intimate love. I see plenty of room for "it's nothing personal, Arasaki just made me a better offer", and "but it was just sex, baby, what did you expect" kinds of reactions. In the cyberpunk future all are made to feel like commodities at one time or another. But there should always be room for the unexpected goodness of heart, and we know CDPR does that very well already, the evidence is in the Witcher series. Plenty of ugly, selfish, cowardly, stupid, violent people, but also room for the surprising goodness.