Most broken weapons in CP: what should get balanced first.

[Maranares]

Because this game is not a CoD. It's a looter shooter. You got rpg elements, character development, items with complex (often fake but still...) stats, player bonuses, perks, etc. It all basically boils down to getting more dmg. And the HUGE PROBLEM with CP77 is that from lvl 20 you don't need that dmg. There is no reason for you to level up. There are no enemies that would require that (sure, you can clear very hard content when underleveled but then what will be left to do when you hit lvl 40? Also, the exp/cred math is also broken af). The whole looter-shooter rpg system breaks down because of broken balance.

A game where god mode is default mode... sorry but that is not good game design.

I agree on the meaninglessness of items stats. The game would be better with a more streamlined weapon system, with less stats on screen, since many of these stats don't really matter when you can one-shot anything. But i don't think nerfing weapons is a good solution to the whole "too easy" problem. I do prefer a realistic approach, where weapons actually kill people with one or two shots, than some j-rpg-style nonsense where regular mobs can survive a revolver shot to the brain and continue fighting like it's nothing. And the game is not a pure looter-shooter, nor is a pure rpg, but more of a mix of different genres, but i won't go off-topic starting a debate over game genres and subgenres.

The problem with being able to kill most enemies with one shot lies on the fact that every enemy in the game has a fixed level. There's not level scaling. In an open world this can be a problem, since you can become very powerful very early if the enemies do not scale accordingly to your level. This, the weak enemy ai system and the lack of stronger enemy types and variety in enemies in general.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

And here I thought running around with a sniper tank cannon and mantis blades was stupid powerful.
Pick off the first few targets with what looks like 122 mm cannon (sure does sound awesome when fired) and then unleash carnage by running and jumping on targets shredding them with blades. And if I am in the mood, indeed hacking can be rediculous.
Having plenty of fun with System Reset and Cyperpsychosis hacks

 

[ya1]

No, the problem is that a guy who apparently knew little of game system design but happened to be Director of Whatever came into the room and demanded that the game have maximum cool and kickass. Jumping from enemy to enemy in slow mo and then turning around to see them all topple down at the same time - like anime samurai shit - that level of kickass. So they did exactly that. God mode level kickass. But the outcome is that the game stops being a game once there is no possibility of losing - it becomes and interactive movie. And an rpg stops being an rpg when there is no possibility of progress and/or achievement. Also, they probably had to do it all in 3 days because, you know, time management schmime schmanagement.

The actual problem is not just the numbers and a matter of nerfing (tho the numbers are comically broken, a mod that 10x enemy health and removes lvl scaling multipliers changes absolutely nothing except the fact that the game breaks not at lvl 15 but 25-35). The problem is broken core mechanics. Bullet time is cool but totally free bullet time with practically no limitations vs. enemies programmed to have super slow animations to begin with (and zero AI)? Once you pack a Sandevistan and some other reflex cybers, they literally can't fire a shot. Spellcasting system that can tag anyone on the map and kill them in seconds with literally zero chance for them to pose any threat at all? These mechanics are just badly designed from the point of view of game system. Very badly. Sandevistan is like a Gwent card with "Deploy: destroy all enemy units," and quickhacks are like "Passive Ability: Opponent cannot play cards."

 

[Netrunner2go]

I still perfere Death and Taxes from Maiko

so now im curious how u obtain this gun without debug console command?....

 

[simon_brooke]

And that's a good thing? Borderlands happens to be the best game in the genre. CP doesn't even get close as a looter shooter.

Borderlands is a first person shooter, it isn't even in the same genre.

 

[Liquidcyberpunk]

In this thread, I'd like to discuss the IMO three most broken weapons in CP77. This is hoping that the game will be balanced in the next big patch. IMO the current balance is broken and trivializes the game even on very hard and even without any educated attempts at optimizing a build. Before I start, I'd like to say that many factors contribute to the brokenness of weapons in CP. AI is one of them. Scarcity of strong enemies is another. General brokenness of the game and half-finished state of the game mechanics is also a factor.

Here is my top 3 broken weapons (or weapon categories including bonuses) that should be nerfed asap:

1. Buzzsaw. Wall piercing without charging, with many hits per second and with silencer. This weapon is absolute ridiculousness. It does not highlight enemies through walls but with things specced up you can just spray blind and kill everyone in 360 degrees. Or use Ping - just in case cyberdeck builds needed more options at non-interactive, casual disposal of enemies. There is an iconic assault rifle that functions in a similar way but it's only accessible very late in the game, and Buzzsaw you can get right at the start.

2. RT-46 Burya (or Comrade's Hammer). Tech Revolver piercing cover without charging. As soon as you get high crit chance and a good crit dmg bonus, it one or two shots everything through the wall (Comrade one-shots everything just like that). Absolutely broken. In fact, poor AI makes all tech weapons kinda broken but these two don't even need charging, nor do they have any accuracy penalties to make up for piercing cover.

3. Silenced revolvers (Overture but also Nova, and their iconic cousins). The out-of-combat perks and bonuses to silencers make this a one-shot weapon very early in the game (that on top of - I surmise - broken armor mechanics; EDIT: enemy armor in CP is a lie, it doesn't exist, the only thing affecting player dmg on enemies is dmg multipliers from lvl difference - same for everyone with a different set of numbers for all robots - and enemy resistances for dmg types). Bad AI and trivial stealth mechanics on top of the reflex cybernetics (broken cooldowns deosn't work) make silenced pistol game play rather banal. Very early in the game, even headshotting stops being a must since 1) crit chance/dmg scaling is broken 2) you can two-shot anything to the body (and very soon even one-shot).

(Also, on the margin, silencers in CP function mostly as dmg multipliers. There is little pratical difference between using a silenced weapon and a non-silenced weapon. Very often, enemies get alarmed either way whether line of sight is affected or not.)

Many people complain about the brokenness of melee weapons and they are absolutely right. It would seem that melee playstyle should require some active input and dmg tanking, rushing, etc. But all of that is completely trivialized by Sandevistans (QianT MK4 around lvl 20 is a complete joke). But that's another broken topic. Ofc, quick hacks are also broken af as well but that's a different topic.

Thx for reading. would love to hear other opinions. Thx!

From reading this it sounds like your real issue is the AI, if they were more ruthless and intelligent the weapons wouldn't be an issue of feeling "overpowered."

 

[Guest 4522391]

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[ya1]

There's not level scaling.

According to some modders, there is a degree of level scaling implemented in CP. But just like almost everything else, it is broken, evidently rushed through design and testing and completely inadequate.

Try playing this game with a default/no perks weapon and see how boring this game gets.

I did. Still op. AI is still too dump and animations still too slow and cybernetic still too broken. I haven't tried white weapon + no perks + no armor + no cybers. That might be reasonable. But, it also begs the question, gimping your build by denying broken mechanics - how exactly does it make those mechanics less broken?

Borderlands is a first person shooter, it isn't even in the same genre.

Wait a minute, so CP is not a first person shooter? OMG I got it all wrong all that time! (Dude, it's the same genre, Borderlands has different environment, game system and aesthetics but both games revolve around finding weapons with better stats, leveling up player stats and making a build to shoot/melee in fpp into enemies that also progress and provide bigger challenges throughout the game. Except in CP that last thing doesn't really happen.

From reading this it sounds like your real issue is the AI, if they were more ruthless and intelligent the weapons wouldn't be an issue of feeling "overpowered."

AI is one thing, maybe the biggest thing, but the balance numbers are still broken. You still casually one-shot for 50x enemy health in endgame without even trying. Items still have like 150% crit chance for some reason.

 

[Guest 4522391]

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[ya1]

I just don't want to wake up one day and find out that I need to do more than one headshot with the overture just to get one kill.

Friend, to get one kill from a silenced Crash or Archangel , right now, you need like 1/20 of one shot's dmg, shooting them in the toe. That's on very hard. If you don't like it maybe getting fixed, there are hard, medium and easy modes, too.

 

[Guest 4522391]

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[-Nailes-]

fix the AI and police first, then maybe we can talk about balancing other stuff.
If you really insist then maybe the devs can give you a legendary mode where you cant do more than 1k damage and all enemies are bulletsponges that can one-shot you. But dont ruin it for others. That incredibly powerful comrade's hammer pistol(which is based on a meme) is the only reason I havent been flatlined by spawn-behind-me police.

 

[ya1]

no one likes bullet sponges, it's boring

You don't know what other people like or find boring. Tanking dmg is a thing in almost every rpg game. And there are hundreds of millions of rpg fans in the world.

You guys have a delusion that the balance in the game was created to realize a vision of an overpowered badassery which happens to tickle your fancy. That is bs. Balance in this game was not created to cater to anyone's preferences. It was just botched. They just didn't have time to do it. You got items with 100+% crit chance - what is the point of that, probability higher than certainty? Obviously there were no attempts at balancing this particular stat. And many others. About 35 perks do not work completely.

Balance and rpg elements in this game were made last minute and completely botched. And you guys are defending it?

That incredibly powerful comrade's hammer pistol(which is based on a meme) is the only reason I havent been flatlined by spawn-behind-me police.

Sorry to break it down to you but Comrade's Hammer, beyond lvl 25-30, is meme. Burya does the same thing - oneshotting through walls without charging - but about 5x faster. In which game do you call an item "incredibly powerful" when there is an exact same item but 5 times better?

Second, if the police poses a threat to you beyond lvl 40, then you did sth wrong unless you wanted it like that. You gotta seriously gimp a build on purpose not to steamroll everything casually. With a normal build, you can get to 5 stars when you're bored and they stop coming after a while.

 

[Don_the_brawler]

Netrunner is so much fun. I hope they leave that perfectly alone. If you want it to be trickier... give your enemies better methods to counter the person hacking you across the street. Don't weaken the hacker cause the people being hacked can't properly defend themselves.

Your on a roof shooting tech guns through the roof? If your opponent had a tech gun, they could do the same. Problem solved.

I think...

 

[Guest 4522391]

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[Draconifors]

And that's enough of that tone, from everyone. Please stay respectful.

 

[-Nailes-]

Sorry to break it down to you but Comrade's Hammer, beyond lvl 25-30, is meme. Burya does the same thing - oneshotting through walls without charging - but about 5x faster. In which game do you call an item "incredibly powerful" when there is an exact same item but 5 times better?

Second, if the police poses a threat to you beyond lvl 40, then you did sth wrong unless you wanted it like that. You gotta seriously gimp a build on purpose not to steamroll everything casually. With a normal build, you can get to 5 stars when you're bored and they stop coming after a while.

Thats because you pick your fight and kite them while I'm talking about fights triggered by third parties.

Imagine you are fighting in a building or a compound and accidently shoot a civilian(sometimes warrants are issued for shooting gangoons, yes really), you are up against gangsters, officers, drones, robots, maxtac and turrets. They are coming at you from all sides. Even with a pistol that shoots five times as fast as comrade's hammer, its not fast enough as maxtac can take down your hp from 700 to 100(with +3k armour) with one shot. Its that or... well, I would have to wonder what difficulty you play on.

I can beat them if I pick the fight and then kite them. But thats not the point. If I pick the fight where I can kite them I dont even need tech weapons. Of all the NCPD that spawns in, only Maxtac actively pursues you, drones follow at a leisurely pace while regular officers are glued to the tile they spawn on. And then you get was armies call 'defeat in detail'.
And thats exactly the issue, the AI is passive, with the exception of NPCs that have cyberware. Those will releport towards you while other enemies hunker down. You can throw grenades at them and they'll just sit there and take them. Thats why police spawns right behind you, its the only way they can take you on. So they need to fix the AI, that alone would help quite a lot.

When you are able to hit enemies with a tech weapon behind cover, its because they dont move. They dont try to get behind better cover and they dont try to advance on you unless you are really close. And even then, they only advance individually, never as a group allowing Defeat in detail.


Edit; Right after I typed this, I noticed a patch preview for version 1.2 in which the above problem of police spawning behind players is being handled. I'm curious to see how it will pan out. But the patch preview shows that it was a problem. One that many people complained about.

 

[ya1]

What you all call bullet sponginess is called damage tanking, and it's an integral element of every rpg game which revolves around dealing dmg to characters that have HP. If damage cannot be tanked, there is no reason for the whole system of health and damage to even exist. No reason for weapon stats, character levels, exp points, perks, bonuses, gear, etc. You can revert to the mechanics of Pac-Man where you oneshot the ghosts and they oneshot you.

It's not a secret to the whoever understands the inner workings of this game that many rpg elements are fake and do nothing. Evasion, enemy armor, dmg multipliers to threat levels from gear mods, a multitude of perks, etc. But if you really think about it, it's not just many rpg elements that are fake. All of them are fake. None of them have any impact on the gameplay once everything oneshots everything. Pac-Man.

So they should just either fix it or stop pretending and get done with this whole rpg lie. In fact, they should stop pretending that it's even a video game and not an interactive movie. A game implies that there is a possibility of losing and a conscious effort on the part of the player to win. There is no possibility of losing or much effort applied when you got a quickhack build or start using a Sandevistan.

Even if damage tanking was not on the table, and their goal was to balance it to a CoD level like "1 shot to the head or 2-3 shots to the body" they missed the mark by an order of magnitude. After lvl 25, you exceed that more than threefold (very hard for mid-threat scaling). At lvl 50, you exceed that 10-20 fold.

 

[Netrunner2go]

You don't know what other people like or find boring. Tanking dmg is a thing in almost every rpg game. And there are hundreds of millions of rpg fans in the world.

That was what the com demand in division and division 2 as well - and what they got was so much overdone that it breaks the game the other way around the enemies got suuuuuuuper sponges so hard that some content was left behind by the player base. - its clearly no fun as well.

 

[Martynxas]

I would say the first thing that needs to be done is HEAVILY tone down crit chance/damage modifiers, they are too abundant and inflate damage to broken levels.
Second, elemental damage needs to be more defined as borderline useless, existing raw damage completely overshadows whatever element perks does.
Third, character progression needs be more smooth, as right now something happens around level 30 when your characters explodes in power relative to enemies, so overall scalling needs to be adjusted.
My two cents